The Religion Discussion

[bluesclues]

I hope they know the seriousness of claiming to be a prophet and be the voice of God.

yes, this is a very serious claim. which separates true witnesses of the kingdom of God from pastors who pass around a collection box claiming to possess the Holy Spirit whilst equating the wealth they accumulate to being blessed by God.

which one is God?

The Father, Yehoshua is the Son of God.

meccali are you a christian? what denomination?

I consider my self a servant of God. Nothing more or less. I fellowship at a Pentecostal assembly, have been there for the past 14 years ever since I started going to church @ 7 when my household was saved through the literal transformation of my Father's lifestyle upon finding salvation and consequently my mother and grandparents who were all Hindu.

you are doing well. i started this way and ensured to keep distinction between God and his Son for prayer and worship. if this is the teachings of the pentecostal church then they are on the right path. you dont need the doctrine of the Trinity except to visualize God and the construction of the universe. it aids in scientific search and examination. it is a universal concept. but, if you simply pray to God and recognize him as Supreme then you do no wrong. if the trinity concept confuses you.. dont worry.. duality confuses almost everyone on earth.

In one sense YES.

So the concept of equality is not equal to being the same person. Right?

Before you were saying that the Holy Spirit is just a personified force ("impersonal, a breath or pneuma(wind)"). Can one lie to a personified force? Is lying to a personified force equal to lying to God?

Now you are trying to muddle the Holy Spirit as the Father's spirit.

Lets see if I can finally clear this up. This should also shed light on the issue of oneness. What is spirit?
Original Word: πνεῦμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pneuma
Short Definition: wind, breath, spirit
Definition: wind, breath, spirit.
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

Spirit is a medium or state, an essence or an element. Spirit is substance, not a person this is what I was pointing out then proceeding to show the relationship of The father and son as spirit. We see that God is Spirit. The verse says, for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak. My hand has no will or mind of its own, it does what I tell it to do.

Here's what the word of God says.
As before. 'Now the Lord is that Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.'

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.'

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless. I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.'

Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.'

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.'

You see, all these scriptures tell us of one spirit that belongs to the father and the son. When the Lord speaks of the comforter, he says I will come to you. Yehoshua all throughout scripture refers to himself in third person as if he is speaking of someone other than himself, another comforter. This is the parakletos, the other comforter, Yehoshua. Its is the spirit of God which dwells within us, that of the son and the father. He dwells in me and I in him. They are of one spirit. In response to Judas, he says ,We will come and make our abode in him referring in that very verse to himself and the father. Paul implores, Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in your midst? But here's the kicker and ultimately the main point, the holy spirit is not a separate third person. No trinity.

Good. he refers to himself in the 3rd person because the Flesh IS the 3rd person. the Spirit that fills us is the 1st person(true spiritual self). in the buddhist teachings they equate this to two "I's". one "I" is the man you see when you look in the mirror.. the flesh. the true "I" however is the spirit which makes you conscious in that flesh. so the flesh is the Ego-I(ego-mind). while the true "I" is "Spiritual-mind". this is why Jesus SACRIFICED his FLESH. NOT his Spirit. His Spirit still lives! so we are to sacrifice the ego-mind to dwell in and serve God in Spirit! fasting thus weakens the body(ego-mind) so that we can come closer to the spirit. because the body is fighting against the spirit(internal Jihad). external Jihad then is the people of Spiritual belief fighting against those who are totally of the flesh and dont believe in God or his Spirit. the disbelievers. you must see the connections. all these teachings are the same.

however.. i advise that you dont discard completely the trinity and say there is no such thing. it is a real concept. though you may not understand it fully quite yet. though i see you are shifting a bit closer.if you serve God well and become to know the spirit as i do.. then you will understand the Trinity and it's justification fully. to be honest.. as i said.. just serving God will do. but for those who seek explanations, the Trinity concept is very valid, though complicated doctrine to teach to students that only know duality. you seem to now be equating the Spirit of God with God. because it filled Christ and it fills us. however there is one difference between Christ and the average human being. Christ KNEW the Spirit and was AWARE of it.. just like all the prophets. most men are not aware of the Spirit and are unable to interact with it except through Words of prayer.


The Spirit is like Wind with the density of water. wind because it is invisible. and water because of how it feels in the body. just like a cup full of water with currents flowing within the cup. however.. water is stopped by physical matter. but spirit permeates all physicality and is unstoppable.

what happens when an immovable object meets an unstoppable force? the unstoppable force(spirit), moves through the immovable Object as though it wasnt even there. unhindered.

so wind and water just like the Trinity are concepts used to describe the fabric of Spirit. you will learn. concepts must be used to relay information to the logical human brain. as most seek to logically define and understand God in seeking him. nothing wrong with it. its just a matter of what you understand about it.

in short. teachings arent pagan. but what people understand and practice as a result of misconceptions of that teaching is what makes the people themselves pagans. because they visualize God wrongly when praying to him and serving him. and that leads them further away from God(closer to the Devil). Unless of course, the teaching is made by someone who misconceptualized and created a teaching from his pagan misconceptualization.

[Habit7]

So the concept of equality is not equal to being the same person. Right?

It depends on the context. If we talking equality with respect to persons then there are equal persons. Likewise righteousness, divinity, power and responsibility, it all depends on the context of what is equal.

Allow me to repost since I don't see an answer

Before you were saying that the Holy Spirit is just a personified force ("impersonal, a breath or pneuma(wind)"). Can one lie to a personified force? Is lying to a personified force equal to lying to God?

Also I don't disagree with some of things you are saying. There are verses in which the Spirit refers to the Father or the Son. You can quote those verse (even though you don't cite the reference) all you want. But your hermeneutic is incapable of harmonising those verses to verses where the person of the Holy Spirit is spoken of distinctly from the persons of the Father or the Son such as in the aforementioned John 16:13.

So since you liken the Holy Spirit as just being the spirit of the Father that operates like your impersonal hand that does what you tell it under your will, doesn't John 16:13 counter that and speaks of the Holy Spirit as a person (He) who has a will/initiative (unlike your hand) but submits it to the Father?

Also I guess you hermeneutic cannot harmonise the Father glorying the Son (John 16:14) YHWH shares His glory with no one (Isaiah 42:8)? I realised you glossed over this too so allow me to readdress it.

[bluesclues]

So since you liken the Holy Spirit as just being the spirit of the Father that operates like your impersonal hand that does what you tell it under your will, doesn't John 16:13 counter that and speaks of the Holy Spirit as a person (He) who has a will/initiative (unlike your hand) but submits it to the Father?

correct.. because unlike God. we cant give our Hand it's own individual consciousness. it gains that from us. and we gain our own individual consciousness from God who is capable of doing so. thus.. the Holy Spirit is also conscious in itself as it's own identity. but performs the perfect will of God. and because it is not made up of any physical matter. it is perfect and without Sin. this is why it is superior to man who is part flesh.

so.. as men.. we are equal among one another. yet.. we are NOT ONE AND THE SAME. is that making sense from your perspective now? thus, the Spirit of God is without Sin.. just Like the Spirit of Christ. so they are equals in that they reside in Heaven at the Top of ALL CREATION.. yet separate entities. so do not equate the flesh with God. Jesus in the flesh is not God.. but his representative here on earth who performed his will through the will of the Spirit which he obeys completely as the perfect will of God.

[bluesclues]

God imparts a part of himself to sustain and assist man via intuition and conscience to find him. this part of himself we call The Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit perfectly performs the will of God even though it has it's own consciousness. The Spirit housed itself in the vessel of Christ.. creating yet another individual consciousness.. the Ego-mind that is Jesus Christ. this ego-mind.. unlike ours.. perfectly obeys the will of the spirit and thus is obeying the will of God.

thus.

God created Spirit which is it's own identity and consciousness
God then used the Spirit to Create Christ in the flesh.(and all things of physical existence)
Christ in the flesh performs the perfect will of the Spirit which is the perfect will of God.

this is how they are connected and equated.. BUT SEPARATE. They are equal in performing the Will of God, but different in Persons. 3 persons, one God. do not say Jesus is God. that is not what it means. 2 of those persons(Holy Spirit and Jesus) perform the perfect will of God. but only God is God. The Supreme and Almighty.

Christ ego-mind knows the spirit and obeys it's will. thus all that he does is the will of the Spirit that speaks through him(ego-mind/flesh). because the Spirit performs the perfect will of God and is absolutely without Sin. The Spirit is the Hand of God, but it has it's own consciousness which was imparted by God who is The Creator.

[bluesclues]

A Prophet is a Messenger, and A Messenger is a vessel which houses the Holy Spirit and is also Aware of it, to transmit it's message accurately. to clear up misconception. To guide the lost back to the True God. The prophet/Messenger is not God. he only transmits God's message which comes from the Spirit in him which he knows and is in full communion with.

[meccalli]

Allow me to repost since I don't see an answer

Like I said before about my hand or spirit, it is me. As the scripture shows clearly there, Lying to the spirit of God is lying to God.
For examination's sake, ( can we lie to spirit?) Our mechanisms of operating aren't the same with God. They are spirit beings while we are flesh (with a spirit). We are told, God is spirit. Countless times we see terms like, the spirit of God and later, the comforter or spirit of Christ. So is the Spirit of Truth, the same as God or Yehoshua? Here's how I see it, the spirit is an extension of themselves that is everywhere, their presence that goes about with working power, drawing, teaching and dwelling in those that are servants of the most high. But it isn't the fullness of their beings revealed in full glory and splendour, more like a touch than an embrace if you see what i'm trying to convey.

I believe the Lord conveyed this well in john 16. A beautiful passage, when he speaks to his disciples in parable and they are confused of his meaning, he tells them the day is coming where I will speak to you plainly and when I come again, your sorrow will be turned to joy. Look at the characteristics of this comforter he describes. It is parallel to the Lord's attitude all through the gospel. But I go now, but I will still be with you. Here he tells of what the spirit of truth will do and why. In it, he says "He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you."
But he immediately follows us this with a reason for saying it,
' All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.'
YHVH does share his glory with the son and the son glorifies the father. You see the spirit of Christ could not come and fulfil it's role until Yehoshua had fulfilled his work and was exalted.We will show the Father glorifying the Son in Isaiah.

Here's what matthew 12 shows us, He warned them not to tell others about him.This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet: 18"BEHOLD, MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN; MY BELOVED IN WHOM MY SOUL is WELL-PLEASED; I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT UPON HIM, AND HE SHALL PROCLAIM JUSTICE TO THE GENTILES.
This is the parallel.
I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
8 I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another.

It's amazing, it's God foretelling Yehoshua's ministry and his glory that he shares with and no other.

[megadoc1]

Godhead is not found in the bible,

Bible is not found in the bible either

I know that, my question is, how do you go from "divinity" to the word Godhead? What is the meaning of divinity and how did they,or should I ask, why did they translate divinity as Godhead. The next question is,what is the meaning of Godhead?

Godhead is simply the term we refer to when dealing in the topic of divinity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhead

[MG Man]

I thought godhead was when god suckin off allyuh piggy

[Slartibartfast]

What do you call it when you open your eyes and look down only to realise that God really is a man?

[megadoc1]

Hmmn, where to start..

I know that, my question is, how do you go from "divinity" to the word Godhead? What is the meaning of divinity and how did they,or should I ask, why did they translate divinity as Godhead. The next question is,what is the meaning of Godhead?

Strange doctrines of the elements and of men, to confuse and cause division among the brethren and to promote their own beliefs.

the discussion we are having is about the Godhead that's all to it, you are allowing your personal convictions to blind you,how does a simple term like this becomes a doctrine? this is simply a term used in Theology now don't tell me you have issues with the word Theology also!

so you are suggesting that those who sought to investigate and try to understand these stuff don't love God?

Nah, I'm saying they wouldn't create their own doctrines and push it as God's words. I hope they know the seriousness of claiming to be a prophet and be the voice of God.

do you have an example of this happening?

which one is God?

The Father, Yehoshua is the Son of God.

Jesus also made the very claims that the father made ,so in your opinion who really is the first and who really is the last? who is really the "I AM" ?
even in john 1 also said the WORD who became flesh was God, are there two Gods despite the fact that YHWH said there is none besides him?

[RBphoto]

I thought godhead was when god suckin off allyuh piggy

That is why they say "Oh GOD!!"?

[MG Man]

ooh, I thought when she bawl out 'oh god' she was really saying 'dammit man, this is one helluva fake O I'm making just so you can feel good....kinda like god, y'know'

[Slartibartfast]

God makes fake O's too? Is my girl God?

[meccalli]

personal convictions

very much so, that registers to me as something in the esoteric eastern mysticism. I don't feel right about it. Leave it at that.

do you have an example of this happening?

Jeremiah 27:15-22
15 ‘I have not sent them,’ declares the Lord. ‘They are prophesying lies in my name. Therefore, I will banish you and you will perish, both you and the prophets who prophesy to you.’” There's a good bit of em in Jeremiah, like hannaniah and shemaiah.
Paul raises the red flag that it would happen. 3 years is alot of emphasis.
Be shepherds of the church of God,[a] which he bought with his own blood.[b] 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

Jesus also made the very claims that the father made ,so in your opinion who really is the first and who really is the last? who is really the "I AM" ?
even in john 1 also said the WORD who became flesh was God, are there two Gods despite the fact that YHWH said there is none besides him?

There is no God other than the Father and no Lord other than the Son.

In the beginning, God created
Elohim is plural, it's translated as God because of the singular verb.
Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

[Habit7]

Like I said before about my hand or spirit, it is me. As the scripture shows clearly there, Lying to the spirit of God is lying to God.

Your hand cannot be lied to neither does it have a will. You analogy breaks down because you doctrine doesnt square with the Bible.

The Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Father, He has a will and lying to Him is equated with lying to God. This is what the Bible says, not your hand analogy.

BTW

The Holy Spirit is eternal Hebrew 9:14, omnipotent Luke 1:35, omnipresent Psalm 139:7-10, will 1 Corinthians 12:11, loves Romans 15:30 and speaks Acts 8:29; 13:2.

In fact I can further say that the Holy Spirit is God Acts 5:3-4, Lord 2 Corinthians 3:18 and can be blasphemed Matthew 12:31.

We use clear verses to state the clear, and these clear verses distinguish the person of the Holy Spirit from the Father, not as being the spirit of the Father.

YHVH does share his glory with the son and the son glorifies the father.

I am the Lord (YHVH), that is My name;
I will not give My glory to another,
Nor My praise to graven images.(42:8)

Either you are right and Isaiah is wrong, or Isaiah is speaking the inspired word of God and "the son" you worship is a graven image.

[megadoc1]

personal convictions

very much so, that registers to me as something in the esoteric eastern mysticism. I don't feel right about it. Leave it at that.

thanks for clearing that up but you will mature soon enough

do you have an example of this happening?

Jeremiah 27:15-22
15 ‘I have not sent them,’ declares the Lord. ‘They are prophesying lies in my name. Therefore, I will banish you and you will perish, both you and the prophets who prophesy to you.’” There's a good bit of em in Jeremiah, like hannaniah and shemaiah.
Paul raises the red flag that it would happen. 3 years is alot of emphasis.
Be shepherds of the church of God,[a] which he bought with his own blood.[b] 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

sorry I asked you to give me an example of this happening

Nah, I'm saying they wouldn't create their own doctrines and push it as God's words. I hope they know the seriousness of claiming to be a prophet and be the voice of God.

give me a real life example

Jesus also made the very claims that the father made ,so in your opinion who really is the first and who really is the last? who is really the "I AM" ?
even in john 1 also said the WORD who became flesh was God, are there two Gods despite the fact that YHWH said there is none besides him?

There is no God other than the Father and no Lord other than the Son.

In the beginning, God created
Elohim is plural, it's translated as God because of the singular verb.
Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

so is Jesus God like how the bible puts it?

[RBphoto]

God makes fake O's too? Is my girl God?

Confirmed.




















JK...

[meccalli]

You analogy breaks down because you doctrine doesnt square with the Bible.

Our mechanisms of operating aren't the same with God. They are spirit beings while we are flesh

I know, I'm flesh and so is my hand. afaik, I can't be everywhere at the same time and my spirit can't minister to people. The hand analogy is to show that an aspect of a person is not a separate entity.
John. 16 shows that the Spirit has no will of its own, 'he will speak only what he hears'.
A parallel in John 12.49 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.

Either you are right and Isaiah is wrong, or Isaiah is speaking the inspired word of God and "the son" you worship is a graven image.

So, the subject of Isaiah 42 isn't about Yehoshua?

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.
Yehoshua is our mediator between God and us so idk where this graven image talk is coming from. Graven images are idols made with hands.

[meccalli]

give me a real life example

" God is speaking to me right now, he's telling me he wants you to sow $$X", majority of tbn?
The absurdities with regard to doctrine is way too much to list, benny, joyce, joel, the asian guy. If the trinity is false its a tickle compared to the things i've heard em teach their loyal disciples.

so is Jesus God like how the bible puts it?

"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

[megadoc1]

give me a real life example

" God is speaking to me right now, he's telling me he wants you to sow $$X", majority of tbn?
The absurdities with regard to doctrine is way too much to list, benny, joyce, joel, the asian guy. If the trinity is false its a tickle compared to the things i've heard em teach their loyal disciples.

oh so you telling me something that had nothing to do with this discussion? last time I checked we were discussing the Trinity and you made this statement

I've seen people try to explain a trinity and claim God's complexity. "Can you solve the mysteries of God? Can you discover everything about the Almighty? I will never make a statement on God that the Bible doesn't say, I just trust what it says. What's there is sufficient for salvation of the human race and it's what we should be concerning ourselves with, there is plenty time in eternity to learn about God when he restores the world. Those who love God will trust the words of our Lord Yehoshua without having to resort to strange doctrines and mechanisms. There is a father and a son, 2 beings who are of the same nature, spirit and mind.

my response was

so you are suggesting that those who sought to investigate and try to understand these stuff don't love God?

then you replied

Nah, I'm saying they wouldn't create their own doctrines and push it as God's words. I hope they know the seriousness of claiming to be a prophet and be the voice of God.

then I asked

do you have an example of this happening?

I really was of the view that you were calling the concept of trinity strange doctrines and mechanisms, accept me apology I will try to be more aware , I will try to work more on identifying your side ramblings in future discussion

so is Jesus God like how the bible puts it?

"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

what do we do with those verses ? was Jesus really the word who was God or just the son of God?

[meccalli]

I thought believers were generally more aware of the matters affecting the church today like the dubbed 'prosperity gospel', this is a form of doctrine not so. I'm sorry you didn't recognize what I was highlighting.

[meccalli]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

what do we do with those verses ? was Jesus really the word who was God or just the son of God?

That may be more semantics, the scripture tells us there's an entity called the Word as well as God. As I pointed out before with the plural nature of the word Elohim. When it comes down to the nitty gritty, I would expect that we trust what the actual Son of God says he is.

Let me expand some more on that verse before I get greek thrown at me. Like I've been saying all along. Yehoshua, is God's son. They are of the same nature which is God.

Here's John 1.1 in Koine Greek
en arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton theon kai theos en ho logos

in the beginning was the word and the word was with the god and god was the word. This was initially a string of text before english introduced all its devices of caps and spacing etc.
ton theon means the God
theos en ho logos
god was the word
This verse affirms the word as being of the nature of his father as deity.

[Habit7]

That may be more semantics, the scripture tells us there's an entity called the Word as well as God.

No

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This verse affirms the word as being of the nature of his father as deity

No

You are performing eisegesis and claiming it is saying they have the same nature, "theos en ho logos" means the Word was God.


If you are not sure about these things I can recommend good sources that deal with these issues thoroughly. But you can't jump on a soapbox speaking out against the doctrine but contradicting Scripture. You are being no different than the Benny Hinn's and Prosperity Gospel and other things you want to point at.

[megadoc1]

I thought believers were generally more aware of the matters affecting the church today like the dubbed 'prosperity gospel', this is a form of doctrine not so. I'm sorry you didn't recognize what I was highlighting.

that's because you are all over the place with your arguments ! please lets stick to the topic

[bluesclues]

the blind leading the blind. The Word is the Holy Spirit.

God spoke the universe into existence "let there be light". this means that the first thing that preceded the creation of Light and matter was Sound. this particular sound, just like the Holy Spirit is a Field which is conscious. and that field excited dark matter(the void) to form light deliberately and all that is physical matter in the universe(atoms). the light represents energy(visible) created out of nothingness of the void.

as mentioned the Holy Spirit is like invisible water. it's force feels like a magnet when you try to put north poles against eachother but it moves with currents. thus.. the Holy Spirit is a conscious field. and a field is generated by Frequency/sound.

its the Trinity Again. God, Sound, Energy sitting at the top of creation of the universe. God is Creator, Sound is his invisible Hand(word/Holy Spirit), and light/energy is the Created and everlasting Son/Sun who though physical also performs the will of God. The scientific viewpoint.

seems noone cares what i have to say. but it was said so at least i did not leave you ignorance. it would be you choose to reject or ignore what ive said. so ill let you guys work it out and ill just get back to my conversation with leelad.

[meccalli]

theos en ho logos" means the Word was God.

You missed the point of me quoting the greek.
ton theon, THE God
theos, God
It's a distinction clearly seen, how can it mean the same person. There's 2 titles and 2 descriptions. That's basic. I don't even need to go into this, the very source says it. That's all the proof I'll ever need.

[megadoc1]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

what do we do with those verses ? was Jesus really the word who was God or just the son of God?

That may be more semantics, the scripture tells us there's an entity called the Word as well as God. As I pointed out before with the plural nature of the word Elohim. When it comes down to the nitty gritty, I would expect that we trust what the actual Son of God says he is.

but Jesus also said he was the son of man so was he the son of God or the son of man or both? ..also, in a passage you quoted made mention of Jesus being in the form of God ,can you tell me if he was God then?

Let me expand some more on that verse before I get greek thrown at me. Like I've been saying all along. Yehoshua, is God's son. They are of the same nature which is God.

but if they are of same nature and the father is God then Jesus must be God too!!! but then you end up with a problem because you claimed that they are separate beings ,remember when God said there is no God besides him?

Here's John 1.1 in Koine Greek
en arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton theon kai theos en ho logos

in the beginning was the word and the word was with the god and god was the word. This was initially a string of text before english introduced all its devices of caps and spacing etc.
ton theon means the God
theos en ho logos
god was the word
This verse affirms the word as being of the nature of his father as deity.

so If God was the word and the word became flesh, then Jesus is God right? I did tell you that whatever you try to suggest other than the trinity comes in second but this is worst than i thought

anyways, meccalli what do you make of this passage? this is the father talking to the son and He is calling him(Jesus) both God and lord

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Heb 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

who really created the earth meccalli? the book of John said

He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

but here we have YHWH saying

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone,

how do you work with these verses meccalli?

[meccalli]

Why are you asking me all of these basic things?

but Jesus also said he was the son of man so was he the son of God or the son of man or both? ..also, in a passage you quoted made mention of Jesus being in the form of God ,can you tell me if he was God then?

rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. To do this, he was born of a woman, Mary.

There's some gap in understanding here, otherwise you wouldn't be asking me if Yehoshua is God. 1.Are you asking me if he is the one true God? or are you asking me 2. if he is God by nature?
1. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
2. Yes, John 1.1 states this.

This verse you need me to explain?
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. It's pretty self explanatory.

Same for Isaiah 44. READ the entire chapter, it is an address to the idol worshippers. He is affirming that he is the one God.

But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created everything, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom God made everything and through whom we have been given life.

He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

All these plain proclamations of God's nature and i'm apparently applying eisegesis by quoting scripture and basic understanding. Guys, I think I've said enough and made that point mega wanted to urge from me. I'm sorry I can't accept 3 persons in one essence as God. My convictions are against that as well, and it's been developed from meditation and study on the word, not bandwagons. If its anyone who lives in an environment that preaches the trinity night and day, it's me, my ministry is based in video production, music, dance and drama in a major new testament church of God here.

[megadoc1]

All these plain proclamations of God's nature and i'm apparently applying eisegesis by quoting scripture and basic understanding. Guys, I think I've said enough and made that point mega wanted to urge from me. I'm sorry I can't accept 3 persons in one essence as God. My convictions are against that as well, and it's been developed from meditation and study on the word, not bandwagons. If its anyone who lives in an environment that preaches the trinity night and day, it's me, my ministry is based in video production, music, dance and drama in a major new testament church of God here.

looks like you started your own bandwagon ..continue trusting God and practice restraint from making statements regarding the trinity until u investigate it ,what you can do in the mean time if you wish, is to learn the concept of it so you can at least be informed on what you so desire to denounce

[Habit7]

theos en ho logos" means the Word was God.

You missed the point of me quoting the greek.
ton theon, THE God
theos, God
It's a distinction clearly seen, how can it mean the same person. There's 2 titles and 2 descriptions. That's basic. I don't even need to go into this, the very source says it. That's all the proof I'll ever need.

So you are saying there is ton theon kai theos, the God and god?

I thought I reference Isaiah 45:5 to show you that cant be true?