Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

[carluva]

any ting to do with pressures and flows, a couple guys in the field, or really just one, and one guy in a control room will handle dat. thats a non issue so long as the physical tie-ins are there.

This statement alone shows the complete lack of understanding of pressures and flows into a network even though physical infrastructure may be in place.

even if the tie-ins werent there, just hadda issue some hot tap permits and viola, jump over!

You make it sound as if it is as simple as going in your yard to lock off your mains valve and then cutting the PVC line to install a TEE. Hot taps are not as simple as you have suggested.


All is easier said than done and for several reasons mentioned and not, this is just not possible.

[carluva]

If the returns are better for the govt then great. It all seems to be working out that way. If it heads that way then we'll be getting more profits as a country. Can you not agree to that? Point Lisas might be screwed though so the workers need to be aware of what is coming.

So calm down.

Never disagreed my boy. In fact, that was what I alluded to.

I said things bad for Point Lisas.

The Pt. Lisas model was a failed model that did not monetise our country's resources properly. The initial vision was good, but there needed to be a review of the model and contracts several times between the 50's, 60's and now. Unfortunately, the model has proven itself to be unsustainable which is why we are now seeing these emerging issues.

[DreamWeaver]

If the returns are better for the govt then great. It all seems to be working out that way. If it heads that way then we'll be getting more profits as a country. Can you not agree to that? Point Lisas might be screwed though so the workers need to be aware of what is coming.

So calm down.

Never disagreed my boy. In fact, that was what I alluded to.

I said things bad for Point Lisas.

The Pt. Lisas model was a failed model that did not monetise our country's resources properly. The initial vision was good, but there needed to be a review of the model and contracts several times between the 50's, 60's and now. Unfortunately, the model has proven itself to be unsustainable which is why we are now seeing these emerging issues.

our gas model is a bad model in the current world today. With global warming, shale gas abundance and the onset of renewable energy, our country is in a bad spot and needs to do something drastic to diversify into more sustainable ventures. We are running out of time, if not already. Even Atlantic will feel the pinch harder as time progresses. Just as Point Lisas companies and employees must face the harsh reality now, so too will all the citizens in the coming years.

[DreamWeaver]

any ting to do with pressures and flows, a couple guys in the field, or really just one, and one guy in a control room will handle dat. thats a non issue so long as the physical tie-ins are there.

This statement alone shows the complete lack of understanding of pressures and flows into a network even though physical infrastructure may be in place.

even if the tie-ins werent there, just hadda issue some hot tap permits and viola, jump over!

You make it sound as if it is as simple as going in your yard to lock off your mains valve and then cutting the PVC line to install a TEE. Hot taps are not as simple as you have suggested.


All is easier said than done and for several reasons mentioned and not, this is just not possible.

Actually a hot tap is very do-able. Although it would be easier to just fabricate the tee, isolate one of the secondary feeder pipelines, purge it, do the necessary modifications and install the tee. NGC can do this quite easily if they wanted since secondary pipelines do exist at key areas to allow switching for maintenance works. From my observations at these valve stations though, there already exists tap off infrastructure in place. Guess NGC was ahead of the game in some areas.

[sMASH]

any ting to do with pressures and flows, a couple guys in the field, or really just one, and one guy in a control room will handle dat. thats a non issue so long as the physical tie-ins are there.

This statement alone shows the complete lack of understanding of pressures and flows into a network even though physical infrastructure may be in place.

even if the tie-ins werent there, just hadda issue some hot tap permits and viola, jump over!

You make it sound as if it is as simple as going in your yard to lock off your mains valve and then cutting the PVC line to install a TEE. Hot taps are not as simple as you have suggested.


All is easier said than done and for several reasons mentioned and not, this is just not possible.

PHYSICALLY, it IS as simple as that. u talking to a man who lined up tank farms for 6 plants, 3 jetties, wrt NH4, MeOH, raw water from WASA, demin water intra plant, CO2, all over pt lisas.

Safe Work, Hot Work, Confined space, excavation, heavy lift jobs..... what u want clarification on? i worked on old plants for the majority of my time in pt lisas. average 14 jobs, minimum 10, involving one or more of those types of permits, practically every single day... not even in TAR,,, normal every day jobs.

as an older supervisor had said back in the day, 'all management has to do is tell operations what they want done, and they will get it.'


u make it sound like rocket science. its not. it is highly skilled work yes, but its what we trained and get big money to know.

but, jess like leff foot rittte foot govt, u all dont understand the detriment to the plants, and how those eco systems work. u all only see the upper level tax and royalties. on the ground, we see how the various aspects affect the costs and subsequent profitability, wrt to day to day operations and the longevity/profitability of the plants.

the only real problem is the negotiated contracts. but again, lefff foot ritttte foot, negotiated their way into footing the whole 300m TAR, jess to keep the tr1 LNG plant online and have at least 6 plants in pt lisas down.

good job.

[sMASH]

The Pt. Lisas model was a failed model that did not monetise our country's resources properly. The initial vision was good, but there needed to be a review of the model and contracts several times between the 50's, 60's and now. Unfortunately, the model has proven itself to be unsustainable which is why we are now seeing these emerging issues.

it didnt fail because it was inherently flawed, cause many people came in and made a lot of money. it failed because of the management.

if rowley paid as much attention to pt lisas as he doing with pt. fortain, it might get something right.
... on second thought, scrap that. cause they negotiated their way into paying for a whole turn around for 10% shared project, and negotiated their way to unitizing and getting 5% share in the whole complex, rather than 10 and 11% in two plants.

[K_J_R]

And this proves what? That there is a gas pipeline network in Trinidad and Tobago as well as jumpovers. This does not demonstrate that gas is being preferentially redirected.

atlantic receives gas from the 56" CIP and the 36" BP lines and bias adjusted per train.

CIP line is run by NGC and also supplies other major users in the area e.g. CGCL.

[De Dragon]

The Pt. Lisas model was a failed model that did not monetise our country's resources properly. The initial vision was good, but there needed to be a review of the model and contracts several times between the 50's, 60's and now. Unfortunately, the model has proven itself to be unsustainable which is why we are now seeing these emerging issues.

it didnt fail because it was inherently flawed, cause many people came in and made a lot of money. it failed because of the management.

if rowley paid as much attention to pt lisas as he doing with pt. fortain, it might get something right.
... on second thought, scrap that. cause they negotiated their way into paying for a whole turn around for 10% shared project, and negotiated their way to unitizing and getting 5% share in the whole complex, rather than 10 and 11% in two plants.

$8 BILLION lost over 10 years is a failed business model? It's actually more of a failed GORTT. This is literally placing all your eggs into one basket. People need to really think about the consequences of the largest methanol plant in the world idling because they cannot get gas.
Also I don't know where you're getting your information from, but if a tie in exists on a gas line every aspect of tying in those two systems have been engineered from safety to capacity etc. There are 140 bar steam lines that tie into 0 bar g/ambient temperature lines which have to be lined up for service and this is done on a routine basis, mostly without incident.

[zoom rader]

^^^ Pastor P()rnHabit 7 & and redman gone into hiding or cant get to use government laptop while at home

[sMASH]

they gone to sapp rowley head

[De Dragon]

they gone to sapp rowley head

Which one? Seeing as these two are routine ball blowers.

[Redman]

When Caroline Seepersad Bachan said she was going to Cabinet to deal with all of these issues.....what happened?

[sMASH]

they does sapp them rectally

[sMASH]

When Caroline Seepersad Bachan said she was going to Cabinet to deal with all of these issues.....what happened?

kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala

who was the previous administration to this one?

[De Dragon]

When Caroline Seepersad Bachan said she was going to Cabinet to deal with all of these issues.....what happened?

Nothing, but a fairer comparison is what happened after JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels inserted themselves into the "negotiations" which is half of Pt. Lisas is now down, $300M has been spent on a no gas, 10% plant and the shut down of M4/M5. 7150 MTPD gone just like that, along with Nutrien's ,Yara's plants.
I don't recall these things happening after CSB's grandcharge.
Oh yeah the unitization coming "jess now"

[SuperiorMan]

How long would it take to get back all these people if UNC win the next election? Like how many years would it take? Fedup of reading what these clowns are doing to this country.

[De Dragon]

How long would it take to get back all these people if UNC win the next election? Like how many years would it take? Fedup of reading what these clowns are doing to this country.

Whoever is in power will not be able in the short term to halt the decline in gas production. The headlong pursuit of LNG, while justified, shouldn't come at the expense of the BILLIONS lost at Pt, Lisas in the last 10 years already. The truth is, that LNG as envisioned by the LFD RFD PNM will be in direct competition for gas with Pt. Lisas as already happens, no matter which LFD RFD PNM/uninformed people tell you differently.

[Redman]

When Caroline Seepersad Bachan said she was going to Cabinet to deal with all of these issues.....what happened?

Nothing, but a fairer comparison is what happened after JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels inserted themselves into the "negotiations" which is half of Pt. Lisas is now down, $300M has been spent on a no gas, 10% plant and the shut down of M4/M5. 7150 MTPD gone just like that, along with Nutrien's ,Yara's plants.
I don't recall these things happening after CSB's grandcharge.
Oh yeah the unitization coming "jess now"

Well she was moved.
Ramnarine came in....nothing done until Poten was engaged and began their gas study.
Despite knowing that there was a problem in 2011..they did not engage the MNCs in order to recover value, avoid these issues or improve the dynamic.


The reccs in general are

Solve the supply problem.
Solve the transfer pricing problem.
Optimize the supply to an equilibrium point between PTL and LNG.


We are in a crappy period no matter what.

Not doing train 1 TAR would have prevented plant closures how?
Please identify how Train 1 impacts the price of gas that NGC suppliers have set.

Be specific

[Cantmis]

Lol non energy personnel explaining the oil and gas industry .

[zoom rader]

Lol non energy personnel explaining the oil and gas industry .

These clowns of pastor Habit7 and Redman, they have never worked in industry. They sit and read articles from red government story tellers and then try to pass it on as gospel truth.

[Redman]

Any answer to the question?
Or just the same blather?
Morning Zoombindranath.

[Cantmis]

NDA prohibit the exposure of company info to the public/competitors such as equipment design, process technology, prices, incidents,TARs etc.

[De Dragon]

When Caroline Seepersad Bachan said she was going to Cabinet to deal with all of these issues.....what happened?

Nothing, but a fairer comparison is what happened after JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels inserted themselves into the "negotiations" which is half of Pt. Lisas is now down, $300M has been spent on a no gas, 10% plant and the shut down of M4/M5. 7150 MTPD gone just like that, along with Nutrien's ,Yara's plants.
I don't recall these things happening after CSB's grandcharge.
Oh yeah the unitization coming "jess now"

Well she was moved.
Ramnarine came in....nothing done until Poten was engaged and began their gas study.
Despite knowing that there was a problem in 2011..they did not engage the MNCs in order to recover value, avoid these issues or improve the dynamic.


The reccs in general are

Solve the supply problem.
Solve the transfer pricing problem.
Optimize the supply to an equilibrium point between PTL and LNG.


We are in a crappy period no matter what.

Not doing train 1 TAR would have prevented plant closures how?
Please identify how Train 1 impacts the price of gas that NGC suppliers have set.

Be specific

You cannot compete for scarce natural gas with a company that you have an interest in, via a company that you own. What the LFD RFD PNM is doing is effectively continuing the jackarsery that BP/Shell currently engage in.

[zoom rader]

Any answer to the question?
Or just the same blather?
Morning Zoombindranath.

Yawn

Your questions are not relevant

[sMASH]

train 1 was down. what ever gas it was using would have not been routed to that facility. at that time, there were plants down in pt lisas for lack of gas. meaning, even with train 1 being down, there was still more demand than supply.

with train1 TAR being fast tracked, it will be ready to receive gas to operate, right after. that gas that would have been used else where, since the plants in pt lisas coudl use more, it woudl be routed there.

its not coincidental, that the same plant i.e. lng tr1 that govt has 10% share in, got ngc to foot the $300m TAR cost+ extra works.
and not conincidental that at that same time, ngc was unable to offer gas at a price acceptable to proman, titan and nutrien.
as some of those plants goes off line, that frees up the supply for when lng tr1 is ready.

its simple business, if u dont want somebody to buy, just price them out of the sale.
in this case, they dont want them to buy gas cause they need it to route to tr1.


all this is speculation without first hand info. but from my experience being on the inside, this is how it goes.



to solve supply problem, the off shore exploration and production need to find more gas, extract more gas, and send more gas.

to solve transfer pricing, that is for the MoF, MoE and i thing AG to sort out. if the transfer pricing issues is against specific contracts that ngc and MoE had them sign, then their lawyers could sort it,.... or the ag office... not sure how that works, but those are issues that occur AFTER the products are sold/taxed, what ever. i only have experience in how the gas is obtained, and converted to a product. after dat is for the accountants and lawyers to sort out.

to solve the balance between ptlisas and ptfortin. as long as the entity for distribution of the gas has in interest in any user of the gas, u will not have that happening. is either make it that govt have shares in all or have shares in none. that is they only way they could see fairly.

tr1 was already down, govt opted to spend 300m to get it back up and running. and in doing so, shuttered 2 plants in pt lisas.
the thing is, they didnt have to spend 300m, their share was only 30m.

and tell that to the employees and contract staff and contractors of the two plants that were shuttered.

bread line got longer. just waiting on camile to press release she have no more market hamper bags to give.

[sMASH]

Any answer to the question?
Or just the same blather?
Morning Zoombindranath.

Yawn

Your questions are not relevant

ent!!!!

[De Dragon]

Notice how Red Colostomy Bag disappears when you present a cogent argument? Then he'll return with some dotish red herring argument.

[zoom rader]

Notice how Red Colostomy Bag disappears when you present a cogent argument? Then he'll return with some dotish red herring argument.

He has to be spoon fed misleading information from the other red government bloggers, then he will get back to you

Remember these frauds know nutting about process plants

[Redman]

Notice how Red Colostomy Bag disappears when you present a cogent argument? Then he'll return with some dotish red herring argument.

I agree ...when I don't 'disappear' your cogency is lacking.

....

Flow ballzing up on the internet at the office.

@smash.

I would agree with you...except that the decision on where train 1 s gas would have gone would be
BP and Shell s to make.
Not NGC.

And of course they raised the price on their gas.
They would have maxed out 2 3 and 4 and still be increasing prices to NGC for supply to PTL.

Of course there is the minor issues of what are the net back margins on Methanol and Ammonia with current prices where they are.

So if it is that NGC had gas....seems that the product pricing globally would still indicate crappy plant economics, and closure if it was advantageous to the MNC.
As we are now

I know this gobbledegook isnt important to allyuh, but it matters to the people that matter.

[De Dragon]

Notice how Red Colostomy Bag disappears when you present a cogent argument? Then he'll return with some dotish red herring argument.

I agree ...when I don't 'disappear' your cogency is lacking.

....

Flow ballzing up on the internet at the office.

@smash.

I would agree with you...except that the decision on where train 1 s gas would have gone would be
BP and Shell s to make.
Not NGC.

And of course they raised the price on their gas.
They would have maxed out 2 3 and 4 and still be increasing prices to NGC for supply to PTL.

Of course there is the minor issues of what are the net back margins on Methanol and Ammonia with current prices where they are.

So if it is that NGC had gas....seems that the product pricing globally would still indicate crappy plant economics, and closure if it was advantageous to the MNC.
As we are now

I know this gobbledegook isnt important to allyuh, but it matters to the people that matter.

Like I said dotish red herrings.
NGC getting less gas means that they have to curtail those they supply namely Pt. Lisas. The prioritizing of Train 1 for gas, means that the curtailments will continue. Train 1 was ready to be shut down indefinitely until two gargantuan kant "negotiators" JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels decide to agree to fund a TAR to the tune of $300M. Miraculously, gas seems to be available to Train 1 once more, so while we have a stake, it is only 10% and the real beneficiaries will be BP/Shell with the majority shareholding. Essentially, NGC using their aggregator status to solely benefit the plant in which they have a beneficial interest.
You other point is similarly without merit, and just as dotish as gas pricing was the sole reason given for M4/M5 idling.
Cronberger told Proman staff: “Unfortunately, a significant increase in the NGC gas pricing for the month of April made the continued operation of our M4 and M5,000 plants economically unsustainable.”
Even Yara and Nutrien cited gas pricing along with curtailments as reasons for shuttering their plants, so while commodities are depressed, they have been MANY times before, and NEVER led to plant closures.
Keep trying, you might be able to convince even yourself one day