Stop the killing in GAZA-Boycott Israeli products NOW!!

[HSA]

IB Smash, HSA and AdamB explain how this is justified in the Quran!!

You called the king's name and he is here.....what yuh want?....what all of you failed to realise is that islam like many other religions have breakaway followers who construct their own judgements and rulings based on the broader religion. islam is a religion of peace and those who choose to do otherwise should be judged on their own merit and not the religion they represent..

take for example azmon alexander.....the one who is held in connection of murder,robbery etc...if he says he killed in the name of christianity, does that mean christianity should be blamed or the individual?

[Dizzy28]

^ Excellent point raised by you...You said "IF" Azmon. There is no doubt when Muslims do it because they are the ones who do it in the name of their God most frequently. No supposition needed. Everyone else does it because of greed, jealousy, mental illness.

But HSA if there is only one book, one God and one true messenger..how are the jihadists getting Islam wrong with such little reference to work with?

[HSA]

^ Excellent point raised by you...You said "IF" Azmon. There is no doubt when Muslims do it because they are the ones who do it in the name of their God most frequently. No supposition needed. Everyone else does it because of greed, jealousy, mental illness.

But HSA if there is only one book, one God and one true messenger..how are the jihadists getting Islam wrong with such little reference to work with?

islam is the broader religion....there are different sects...sunnis..salafis...wahabi...shiite etc...you have to understand why these sects were formed...these sects were formed through following different school of taught led by different ppl...each school SUPPOSE to have the same rules and regs according to the quran and hadith....however through misconceptions and ill teachings, they all skewed from the right teachings and now have adopted a system of their own....thats why ppl say muslims killing muslims......shiite vs sunnis.....therefore islam cannot be blamed for those gruesome acts but the ppl themselves....

[Dizzy28]

^ Excellent point raised by you...You said "IF" Azmon. There is no doubt when Muslims do it because they are the ones who do it in the name of their God most frequently. No supposition needed. Everyone else does it because of greed, jealousy, mental illness.

But HSA if there is only one book, one God and one true messenger..how are the jihadists getting Islam wrong with such little reference to work with?

islam is the broader religion....there are different sects...sunnis..salafis...wahabi...shiite etc...you have to understand why these sects were formed...these sects were formed through following different school of taught led by different ppl...each school SUPPOSE to have the same rules and regs according to the quran and hadith....however through misconceptions and ill teachings, they all skewed from the right teachings and now have adopted a system of their own....thats why ppl say muslims killing muslims......shiite vs sunnis.....therefore islam cannot be blamed for those gruesome acts but the ppl themselves....

If there are so much sects who all essentially use the same source material then that source material has to be flawed to begin with

[HSA]

^ Excellent point raised by you...You said "IF" Azmon. There is no doubt when Muslims do it because they are the ones who do it in the name of their God most frequently. No supposition needed. Everyone else does it because of greed, jealousy, mental illness.

But HSA if there is only one book, one God and one true messenger..how are the jihadists getting Islam wrong with such little reference to work with?

islam is the broader religion....there are different sects...sunnis..salafis...wahabi...shiite etc...you have to understand why these sects were formed...these sects were formed through following different school of taught led by different ppl...each school SUPPOSE to have the same rules and regs according to the quran and hadith....however through misconceptions and ill teachings, they all skewed from the right teachings and now have adopted a system of their own....thats why ppl say muslims killing muslims......shiite vs sunnis.....therefore islam cannot be blamed for those gruesome acts but the ppl themselves....

If there are so much sects who all essentially use the same source material then that source material has to be flawed to begin with

nope....the word you are looking for is "perception"...one may read a certain sentence from the books and see it as half full..while another will read the same sentence and see it as half empty....then as the grapevine spreads, as in all messages, will eventually become skewed from the original....

then you would ask...what is the actual message then? the original message and its meaning should be taken from hadith and true narrators of the quran...

then you would ask..how do you find true narrators of the quran? the best advise is to go closer to the time of the source which means that older narrations tend to be more accurate than newer ones...

i am not here to challenge other religions or to condemn....but to try and provide some sort of relief to confused minds as my knowledge permits.....

[sMASH]

Hence why some Christians eat pork and drink rum and others don't.

But the majority of Muslims have the same scripture available to them and do not find the directive to kill unwarranted.

So who are the ones that are not following the scriptures correctley?

I would state that killings of civilians without just cause and without trials are terrorist acts and should be stopped and the perpetrators prosecuted... No matter how big the prosecutor, no matter how small the victims

[HSA]

Hence why some Christians eat pork and drink rum and others don't.

But the majority of Muslims have the same scripture available to them and do not find the directive to kill unwarranted.

So who are the ones that are not following the scriptures correctley?

I would state that killings of civilians without just cause and without trials are terrorist acts and should be stopped and the perpetrators prosecuted... No matter how big the prosecutor, no matter how small the victims

Exactly so with the christians..but so called islamic jihadists have no justification in killing innocent ppl and is unislamic.....they are not following the scriptures at all...all they utter is an islamic phrase and believe because they say this phrase it is ok to kill ppl.....totally b.s

[megadoc1]

islam is the broader religion....there are different sects...sunnis..salafis...wahabi...shiite etc...you have to understand why these sects were formed...these sects were formed through following different school of taught led by different ppl...each school SUPPOSE to have the same rules and regs according to the quran and hadith....however through misconceptions and ill teachings, they all skewed from the right teachings and now have adopted a system of their own....thats why ppl say muslims killing muslims......shiite vs sunnis.....therefore islam cannot be blamed for those gruesome acts but the ppl themselves....

Hence why some Christians eat pork and drink rum and others don't.

But the majority of Muslims have the same scripture available to them and do not find the directive to kill unwarranted.

So who are the ones that are not following the scriptures correctley?

I would state that killings of civilians without just cause and without trials are terrorist acts and should be stopped and the perpetrators prosecuted... No matter how big the prosecutor, no matter how small the victims

what is amazing is that the most common objections to the christian faith raised by Muslims, was the fact that there are so many sects in Christianity, in contrast to the Muslim faith where they boast about being of one mind and stand united...now whats happening here? are they now learning something? or are they now speaking reality to save face?

the religion ched is littered with those objections..... HA HA hear dem now nah "just like christianity we have many sects " lol

[The Paleontologist]

Muhammad stated in a hadith that there will be 73 different sects of Muslims. So is not now they are saying that

[HSA]

cannot and doesn't make sense to argue with ignorant ppl....you believe what you believe and i will believe what i believe.......ignorance is the opposite to understanding

[Dizzy28]

HSA I must say, of the Muslims in the threads you are the most easy going one to deal with.

[megadoc1]

HSA, you are new here,hence new to these religious discussions on tuner, sending me a PM saying "whatever floats your boat" does nothing for me , you need respond here and prove that I was wrong in what I am saying but you just cant do that ,see almost five years ago I posted a vid in the religion ched, where a young Muslim student used the same argument when allowed to question a known apologist. I posted it because it was the same common objections raised in that ched at that time.

I observed that things are far different than five years ago because now I am seeing muslims admitting that there are many sects in Islam ,it is possible that this can be as a result of the conflict in Iraq where there are Muslim on Muslim killings in the name of Islam and maybe you guys can no longer fool folks who are ignorant to your faith...

but anyways here is one of the vids that I posted five years ago go to 4:58 or better yet watch all

[HSA]

HSA I must say, of the Muslims in the threads you are the most easy going one to deal with.

dan i dont let these discussions bother me because at the end of the day..sunday u going to church...friday i going to mosque....doesnt make sense arguing something in writing here that has no weight in real life....

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

doesnt make sense arguing something in writing here that has no weight in real life....

except when these things are not discussed and shared in a civil manner among humanity, conflict arises and people die. That is real life.

[Habit7]

dan i dont let these discussions bother me because at the end of the day..sunday u going to church...friday i going to mosque....doesnt make sense arguing something in writing here that has no weight in real life....

Are you a serious muslim?

The Quran 98:6 say "Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures."

Either that is true and Islam is correct, or it is false and Islam is false religion. These discussion have major implications.

[HSA]

13 years ago there wasnt much highlight into the islamic faith until 9/11...then islam sterted becoming of interest to the media...in that way the media started to focus on terrorism etc....but terrorism and islam was there before that...it just wasnt highlighted.......

so because of this...prior to 9/11...everyone thought that islam=muslim=1 religion.....when investigations started being done post 9/11 then ppl become aware that islam has different sects....the quran states that islam will have 73 different sects but onlu 1 will enter paradise.....this means that 72 sects would think they are correct when actually they would be wrong...the only way to ensure that you do not fall into the 72 sects is by being as the prophet muhammed u.w.b.p was....

then some ppl would say he was a peadophile etc.....so am i saying to be a pedo?...those with comments like that are ignorant fools.....yes the prophet married a girl when she was young but only consumated the marriage after puberty.....

then ignorant fools would go on and on about having intercourse with a young girl etc and that would be their primary focus.....i say let your focus be on the way he lived his life, reasoning with people, teaching them etc... then you would see why he is the greatest man who walked on the face of this earth....but thats my belief.....i am not saying to change your number 1 greatest man nor am i imposing it on you...i am just saying that this is the way i view him...agree or not its your right and doesnt bother me....

all in all...i am saying that islam had different sects long before all of us were born and it only became highlight via the media because we always hearing news of sunnis vs shiite in pakistan,india etc.....if you want to have a 1 on 1 discussion i will be glad to meet at a convenient location and we could have a productive discussion....but tuner is not the medium of discussing or bashing one belief from another....the medium to know which belief is greater than the other will only be known through death....then again..dead men tell no tales so i guess we have no way of knowing which is right and wrong....

thats why i say again...you believe what you want...and i will believe what i want....whatever floats your boat so be it....because i only wish good on ppl and would never want to see your boat sink

[HSA]

doesnt make sense arguing something in writing here that has no weight in real life....

except when these things are not discussed and shared in a civil manner among humanity, conflict arises and people die. That is real life.

it is better to attend conferences where there is a question and answer session....the answers to questions are too much to write....if you need answers come visit the islamic dawah movement...curepe and emr intersection upstairs burger king...

http://www.idmtt.com/Default.aspx

there is a large conference room there...those interested in visiting kindly fill out the form in contact us at the bottom of the page given above...we'll arrange a date with knowledgable islamic scholars and you all, members of tuner and the public who wish to ask questions

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

doesnt make sense arguing something in writing here that has no weight in real life....

except when these things are not discussed and shared in a civil manner among humanity, conflict arises and people die. That is real life.

it is better to attend conferences where there is a question and answer session....the answers to questions are too much to write....if you need answers come visit the islamic dawah movement...curepe and emr intersection upstairs burger king...

http://www.idmtt.com/Default.aspx

there is a large conference room there...those interested in visiting kindly fill out the form in contact us at the bottom of the page given above...we'll arrange a date with knowledgable islamic scholars and you all, members of tuner and the public who wish to ask questions

Good stuff!
will you attend a conference if invited by Habit7 or megadoc1?

answers of truth can never be too much to write, unless the person looking for the answer finds it is too much to read, in which case that is a downfall of the person seeking the answer and not of giving it.

also I was specifically referring to cross talks between various religious groups and not a conference that may be biased to one side - mediation and dialogue have stopped many a war.
If we do not share our ideas publicly and get different opinions from others we live with or near via open discussion then we show that we are only interested in our own beliefs and ways and not that of others.

[HSA]

doesnt make sense arguing something in writing here that has no weight in real life....

except when these things are not discussed and shared in a civil manner among humanity, conflict arises and people die. That is real life.

it is better to attend conferences where there is a question and answer session....the answers to questions are too much to write....if you need answers come visit the islamic dawah movement...curepe and emr intersection upstairs burger king...

http://www.idmtt.com/Default.aspx

there is a large conference room there...those interested in visiting kindly fill out the form in contact us at the bottom of the page given above...we'll arrange a date with knowledgable islamic scholars and you all, members of tuner and the public who wish to ask questions

Good stuff!
will you attend a conference if invited by Habit7 or megadoc1?

answers of truth can never be too much to write, unless the person looking for the answer finds it is too much to read, in which case that is a downfall of the person seeking the answer and not of giving it.

also I was specifically referring to cross talks between various religious groups and not a conference that may be biased to one side - mediation and dialogue have stopped many a war.
If we do not share our ideas publicly and get different opinions from others we live with or near via open discussion then we show that we are only interested in our own beliefs and ways and not that of others.

true...and yes of course i will attend....i've been reading both users responses in many forums and through their responses i have a clear understanding of their intentions.....they do not care for gaining knowledge but only see it as a means of fun by misquoting and writing ignorant statements...in light of this....i'm not bothering to write lenghty explainations to their questions because if i do, they will only find another fault or make another ignorant comment....if they are serious enough and need answers...take a day..so will i..and we'll meet in the conference room mentioned above......if not....then i'm not wasting my time to write anything lenghty...

[megadoc1]

true...and yes of course i will attend....i've been reading both users responses in many forums and through their responses i have a clear understanding of their intentions.....they do not care for gaining knowledge but only see it as a means of fun by misquoting and writing ignorant statements...in light of this....i'm not bothering to write lenghty explainations to their questions because if i do, they will only find another fault or make another ignorant comment....if they are serious enough and need answers...take a day..so will i..and we'll meet in the conference room mentioned above......if not....then i'm not wasting my time to write anything lenghty...

wow!

[Habit7]

true...and yes of course i will attend....i've been reading both users responses in many forums and through their responses i have a clear understanding of their intentions.....they do not care for gaining knowledge but only see it as a means of fun by misquoting and writing ignorant statements...in light of this....i'm not bothering to write lenghty explainations to their questions because if i do, they will only find another fault or make another ignorant comment....if they are serious enough and need answers...take a day..so will i..and we'll meet in the conference room mentioned above......if not....then i'm not wasting my time to write anything lenghty...

wow!

Wow indeed,

After seeing your peer AdamB misrepresenting Christianity my first post in the religion thread was a scholarly debate between a Christian and Muslim with the hope of discussing the points, he rejected it. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=267363&start=12510#p6759689 I certainly would like to gain knowledge, the problem is you dont like to discuss knowledge I like to know.

I can speak for myself that I attempt to represent Islam and the Quran within the historical context of its contemporaries with the hadith and tafsir to back me up. For example, did I "misquote" Surah 98:6 above? I am not of the worst of creatures?

A yes or no answer is not a "lengthy explanation."

[HSA]

ok you want a discussion..you have one...post one question and i will answer the best i can...when i'm done answering, i will ask a question and you will answer...and so on...go ahead my friend...ask your question

[Habit7]

ok you want a discussion..you have one...post one question and i will answer the best i can...when i'm done answering, i will ask a question and you will answer...and so on...go ahead my friend...ask your question

Check the religion thread for my post.
viewtopic.php?p=8439705#p8439705

[De Dragon]

So even an apparent moderate like HSA, if properly challenged, will take a dismissive attitude. You speak about fanatics giving Islam a bad name, but you are no help either.