***The Official Rapid Rail Thread***

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

BTW how exactly does a bus manufacturer like Volvo and Marcopolo stop doing business with PTSC?

For example they won't sell them buses or parts. How does something like this even happen? when I had inquired about this in the past the response was outstanding monies owed and the broken down condition that the buses are kept in.

Would a bus company really stop selling you a bus if you have the bus looking like sheit? I find it hard to believe Volvo would care what we do with their bus or how we keep it, I mean they getting their money not so? why care if your bus looks like complete sheit? Surely they can't be that concerned about their image? maybe is just a case of money being owed.

[mero]

So ED, please tell us how many times u and your cheap lazy ass waited 3 hours for a bus in City gate.

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

^ 40% of the time I waited 2 hours because the first bus never showed up even though they supposed to send a bus every hour.
20% of the time I waited 3 hours, the response from customer service has been we cannot find a working bus or we do not have any drivers.

Cheap and Lazy is none of your concern, if the government is providing public transport I expect them to do it at the best of their ability not at the worst of their ability.

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

There is also another issue in PTSC, this one time I was on the bus and a Vagrant come on and pull a blade for everybody. He then accused me of convincing the driver not to allow him on the bus which is why the driver told him step off the bus.

The man pull a blade for everyone of us on the bus threaten to bull people and thing, driver spend 5 minutes trying to find a security guard, soon as they heard a mad man on the bus all of them suddenly had to use the toilet and could not respond. I think is Jack Warner security company who has the contract for there.

[bluesclues]

this daran like he will use any excuse to pass lix and say they deserve it.

listen. there is no way, by all God, that you can make unmotivated ppl do anything when they are feeling like they are being exploited. all is action and reaction. ppl dont work like they have worms just so. unless they naturally the slow type. but u would see that since the interview so if u still hire them u knew what u were going to use them for. hopefully.

what u need is incentive that suits the needs of today. incentives structured in such a way that they bring value both to you and them, increase efficiency, and bring all stealing to 0. yes. ZERO. there is a way to make unmotivated employees motivated on their own. i give u enough clues there.

this is psychology and nature. whipping ppl into your order doesnt always work. and this is a situation where ppl will just walk off working for the state at all. and leave the jobs sector and stop searching for employment.

[EmilioA]

I'm more concerned about the junior secs. What do they expect to happen by putting all of the delinquents in one place? Teachers are doomed from the start and then blamed for their failure. On the other end of the spectrum you have some crappy teachers in prestige schools getting a good rep because the students do a lot of the work on their own.

I thought they got rid of Junior Secs about 6 years ago. The whole deshifting process. All schools are 5 year now. That's why Eldo Junior is now Eldo West.

What they call it now is insignificant.

It kind of matters if Junior Secs no longer exist

All the schools are still there buddy. All of them are still last choice schools. So what if Junior Sec isn't in the name. Or they aren't shift scheduled anymore. I am more concerned with "What do they expect to happen by putting all of the delinquents in one place? Teachers are doomed from the start and then blamed for their failure. On the other end of the spectrum you have some crappy teachers in prestige schools getting a good rep because the students do a lot of the work on their own."

So your concern is GOVT Schools in general not Junior Secs.

[EmilioA]

So u jump on a train with say 3 guys
And when it roll off they rob you then run off at the
Next stop while u holding a busshead

What prevents this from happening on a bus or maxi ?

[Numb3r4]

Numb3r4, many of the "disadvantaged" in this country and elsewhere in the world use welfare as a means of income to support a lifestyle of laziness. There are lots of disabled people in T&T who work regular jobs and don't rely on a welfare check or smart card to survive. Most who claim poverty are plain LAZY. If you able to have sex, you more than able to learn a skill and look for a job.

I agree that is why I said that the social programs must be properly audited and that the data used/made public to prove and justify the spending or lack of it....going back to the thread topic...a lot of our systems are failing us we should be trying to fix them instead of building more infrastructural projects.....improve the mentality take the steps to do so....as a new government show that you are different....if you show that then the population would give you a second term and then build to your hearts content.....but basics first....improve the culture, the service quality, etc. etc.

[mero]

^ 40% of the time I waited 2 hours because the first bus never showed up even though they supposed to send a bus every hour.
20% of the time I waited 3 hours, the response from customer service has been we cannot find a working bus or we do not have any drivers.

Cheap and Lazy is none of your concern, if the government is providing public transport I expect them to do it at the best of their ability not at the worst of their ability.

Sooooo approx 3 out of 5 days you sit and wait about 2-3 hours for the bus to go right piarco?

What is the longest you ever wait before calling it quits and end up taking a maxi?

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

^ yes thats exactly what happened most of the times. Sometimes u may be lucky and that 1 week the bus run normal but mostly were horribly late.

I was busy once so took a maxi 5 minutes after the first hour, other than that when you spend that much time waiting its difficult not to wait one more hour after u have invested so much time waiting.

Remember my Salary is $150 a week so maxi isn't always my option, I not rich like u

[drchaos]

$150 a week? Someone give this guy a food card!!!

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

$150 a week? Someone give this guy a food card!!!

Funny enough the only people I know with foodcard are those who own Maxi Taxi and businesses, those with government jobs etc. Even has a guy in my area who has a food card and he somehow has a million dollar house with 9 vehicles.

[desifemlove]

EFFECTIC DESIGNS,

Have you ever been outside of Trinidad? Buses provide are extremely reliable and quick service throughout most of Europe, and especially in the UK. Frequent service buses cover areas of usually 10 to 30km radius (with some intercity links covering longer distances). Buses and trains are meant to compliment each other there.

You need to ask yourself what is PTSC doing wrong. Look at the personnel and unions. Privatize the bus service and introduce penalties if timetable schedules are not met. You'll see how quickly things turn around.

An effective traffic plan for Trinidad requires many changes. The Rapid Rail is like a brute force solution with ultimately very high risks.

Do you know the entire project plan for the rapid rail is almost 10 years? I'm pretty sure the cost will double, the timeline for completion will exceed what was planned and the project scope will be reduced along the way.

And in the mean time what are we going to do?

Easy:
- Replace maxis with organized shuttle systems and designated bus stops (no more F*cking stopping where ever they please. A few years back I did a stochastic analysis of that start stop behavior of maxis and the resultant effect on traffic was horrendous)
- Investigate all bottle necks and introduce flyovers/tunnels/overpasses/roundabouts
- Use intelligent traffic lights that can sense traffic and give priority to the major roads while anticipating impacts in upcoming bottlenecks
- Offer comfortable rapid (little or no stops) intercity links
- Use bus stop timers at major stops so passengers can see how far away their next bus is
- School bus shuttles
- Mandatory staggered company hours
- Encourage private business to decentralize

A combination or all of the above will be exponentially cheaper, create more jobs and far less havoc on our infrastructure.

Don't get me wrong though, the Rapid Rail would be very very nice to have, but it aint solving many of existing traffic problems. Meaning, it's far from the best solution to our traffic woes.

You mention cost.......you does realise cost will be over decades? if it's a long-term investment providing value, why not? you realise the US Feds still paying for the highway system, and the UK/France governments for bridges/Channel Tunnel, etc?

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

A small highway cost us $10 billion?

A bus rapid system also needs its own road network by the time you done you would be better off with the Rapid Rail. There is nothing rapid about a bus sitting in traffic for 3 hours and cheap Chinese buses breaking down by each traffic light. This small minded thinking is what has us in such a 3rd world state.

btw almost forgot to mention couple months ago was on the Piarco bus same deluxe coach and a lady from Denmark was visiting Trini, she put her luggage and backpack on the lower compartment that the driver has to open for you outside the bus. This was at City Gate when the woman reach the Airport and she pull out the bag and luggage if you see how much black grease and dirty oil was on the woman thing. This is an idea of what we dealing with when we talking about PTSC, they clean absolutely nothing the woman had to go on a plane with that oil, diesel and grease on her backpack. I saw the woman broke down in tears and all the passengers on the bus could say is "iz she fault this is Trinidad she supposed to know better what makes she think PTSC does clean anything"

And allyuh want to stand here and talk about expanding our bus service as an alternative to the RR? allyuh really eh have no shame nah.

[ingalook]

A small highway cost us $10 billion?

A bus rapid system also needs its own road network by the time you done you would be better off with the Rapid Rail. There is nothing rapid about a bus sitting in traffic for 3 hours and cheap Chinese buses breaking down by each traffic light. This small minded thinking is what has us in such a 3rd world state.

btw almost forgot to mention couple months ago was on the Piarco bus same deluxe coach and a lady from Denmark was visiting Trini, she put her luggage and backpack on the lower compartment that the driver has to open for you outside the bus. This was at City Gate when the woman reach the Airport and she pull out the bag and luggage if you see how much black grease and dirty oil was on the woman thing. This is an idea of what we dealing with when we talking about PTSC, they clean absolutely nothing the woman had to go on a plane with that oil, diesel and grease on her backpack. I saw the woman broke down in tears and all the passengers on the bus could say is "iz she fault this is Trinidad she supposed to know better what makes she think PTSC does clean anything"

And allyuh want to stand here and talk about expanding our bus service as an alternative to the RR? allyuh really eh have no shame nah.

Make up your mind, its either we can properly run something or we can't... you cant have it both ways

When we talk about BRT - NO ONE is talking about expanding PTSC, EVERYONE (beside you) is talking about some sort of massive overhaul of PTSC, their service and their equipment

You are the one with "no shame" who is spinning any logical argument people are giving you back into "Chinese bus is crap" and "Trini cayr run nuttin" but when asked how we will run a RR, your argument becomes "but we run the Water Taxi good"

When we ask why don't we just expand the current water Taxi service your argument becomes "well that costs so much"

When we point out the cost of the RR you say "but it will benefit us over time"

When we say it will take 10+ years to complete you say "That just gives us more time to pay for it"

You doh get dizzy hoss?

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

^ I am pretty sure half of them questions and answers were Habit7 since half those responses were not mine

But let me ask you this if you say a new company for the Rapid Bus, what you doing about the road network?

Where do you suggest we run those new buses? Yeah man good idea lets cheap out and instead of $60 billion lets go spend $40 Billion on a new road network around the country for a Rapid Bus call it a Priority Bus Route, and hope it isn't overtaken by a million illegal cars and other non bus vehicles ow wait!

All I could say to those against the RR you can protest as much as you want but its going to happen because the price of progress is high! Hopefully most knows what that means, no fuel subsidy and less money for maxi taxi, but we will have the best of the best, that my friends is the price of progress, it don't come cheap.

[Numb3r4]

Firstly I don't think that people voted for the PNM based on the rapid rail even though it was part of their manifesto. Their were a lot of other more pressing issues that tore the voters away from the PP. Corruption, favoritism in the selection of contractors, board members, etc. So to say we voted for a rapid rail...I don't think so....we voted for a lot of other things.

Many people are questioning the rapid rail (myself included) this is in part due to the fact that we have mis-handled many infrastructural projects, only just recently the Highway to Point Fortin. It is not to say that this fear should choke our growth. Would it not be better for this administration to put in place better tendering legislation, to make public the most current evaluation of the need for the rapid rail and the expected cost in a formal document the public can view? Secondly this administration should tackle the other wise failing institutions instead of potentially adding more workload to the said failing institutions. We have to address falling oil prices and Petrotrin, we have to address the healthcare, crime and the police, they want to bring back SAUTT and possibly scrap the National Command Centre? SAUTT was a bit of a fiasco the last time....wasn't it?

Right now as it stands we have the PTSC and whether we get the rail or not we will need it or some variant of it, how do you expect to get passengers to the rail hubs....magic carpet? I many instances the proper efficient functioning of the rail system is tied to the functioning of the bus system that helps to feed it and distribute the load. Why are we building on on top a system that is not performing would it not affect the rail and bring down its performance?

Take for instance the TTC which relies on BOTH the bus and the rail/subway system WORKING IN TANDEM to achieve the desired result.

The concern is that the many problems facing the PTSC will pervade the rapid rail and cause its downfall. Who is to say they won't invest in Chinese rail cars and they succumb to the same issues as the buses, someone said that the rail will have less parts to maintain than the bus thus it would be simpler and easier to keep running than the bus, however if the maintenance culture does not change it makes no sense.

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

^ yes the person was correct in the rail being much easier to maintain, thats one of the huge benefits compared to buses. I don't know if the rail will be Chinese made I hope not having experienced the chinese buses. It is a lot less work compared to the many buses, it was said that one of the major benefits of the rail is to ease the work on PTSC.

Currently PTSC buses are overworked because of the serious problems arising from rush hour, Imbert said no amount of buses can move this much people going in and out of POS. the only thing that move this many people is a Train.

So I think we are missing the bigger picture here, the UNC plan was to decentralize so we would not need a Rail, but think of the money needed to move all those businesses out of POS. Consider that vs the price of a Rapid Rail at only $60 Billion.

UNC spent $400 Billion in 5 years and achieved almost nothing. Yet we stand here and accuse the PNM of wasting only $60 Billion that is going to address one of the most serious concerns we currently have? Transportation and Traffic!! and we somehow consider this the least important? what exactly is so much more of a pressing concern exactly? Petrotrin? if we have a rail we should have people reaching to work on time, a workforce less frustrated to come to work, less lazy hopefully which should attract more foreign investors. It is possible that foreign investors may be more willing to invest in Trinidad if they see such huge improvements in encouraging people to get to work and on time have we thought about this? I am not saying it will happen but its possible.

It makes me wonder how many people are against this because they are concerned about fuel subsidy and how many owns a maxi taxi and I am willing to bet its an overwhelming majority. habit7 is the only guy here who is concerned about the citizens of this country and not gas prices for his car or how much money his maxi taxi will make, we should all be more like him and it would be a better world.

[ingalook]

ED

We already have a Bus Route, it just needs to be upgraded... BRT can move 40,000 persons per hr, and believe it or not they can do it with our CURRENT bus route.

I wonder if you ever bothered to watch a single video on BRT posted here or if you just talking out yuh posterior

Then there is already a 3rd lane ripe for use from Chaguanus straight to the top of the highway - doh tell me that lane is for cars, I tort yuh say yuh wanted cars off de roads???

Of course there would have to be some upgrades to be made (like a concrete separation for the bus lane on the highway) but it is doable WE WILL SEE THE BENEFIT IN JUST A YEAR, surely this must count for something???

Then you point out private cars using the bus route, with this reform not even the PRIME MINISTER will be allowed to drive on the Bus Route (unless he is a passenger of the bus service). It must become inconceivable for Trinis to consider driving on the bus route because is instant lockup.

We talking about camera surveillance, control rooms staffed 24hrs, GPS trackers on every bus etc. NOT WHAT WE HAVE NOW

With a regular closely monitored schedule it would mean that at those places where motorist have to cross the Bus route it can now be done in a way that maximizes efficiency and minimizes traffic. If 8 buses runs every 5 mins during rush hour then it means that these lights crossing the Bus Route can be kept green for 4 minutes, and red for just 1 minute.

Basically why improve transport next ten years (while seriously hampering transport during that 10 year period because of construction of such a large scale project) when you can radically improve transport in 1 year?

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

That will be the day when you don't see private cars on that bus route. BRT can work assuming there is a priority route for it, assuming they start back purchasing VOLVO brand buses which has an acceleration and speed like a gas engine car somehow. And assuming no other vehicle is allowed to use the bus route other than the buses.

But if you seriously think that anybody in government is going to vote for that then you dreaming buddy. In Trinidad the culture is "i iz ah big boy I hadda use that bus route" and so no one will ever pass that low banning all forms of vehicles except buses on the bus route.

Doh get me wrong what you saying does make sense, even if you buy only Mercedes benz and Volvo buses, put it under new company and management with no union interference yes this will cost way less than a RR. But even with all that no one will allow those roads to be used only by buses, every tom dick and harry in government want to use it with their personal vehicle. None of them passing laws to put up street camera, and ban any vehicle other than buses. All big boys hadda use it.

You know how many times they had road block on the bus route well not many times but when they do is one set of dotish traffic and guess what? every 6th car that they pull over the driver is a police officer, prison officer, fire officer etc etc etc. And they have a good laugh when they show eachother their badge and be on their merry way. Yeah your idea charge any vehicle with the camera and remove the police from the PBR but like I said nobody in parliament passing that bill, NOBODY, why? because all of them want to use it.

I get what you saying its a good idea in theory but will never happen in reality. What could happen and will happen for that matter is a rapid rail, that you can count on. And quite frankly I tired hear talk about this idea and that idea that nobody in government takes seriously, the RR benefits them because they go make their piece of money in racket and still continue to use the bus route. Me agreeing or disagreeing changes nothing that is happening, that RR is going to be built you can bet on that.

[Numb3r4]

People on this thread still proving my point we have a poor culture in this places and no amount of infrastructure will truly help.....I raised the point previously the problem with the rail system is that given the issues plaguing the PTSC (we are speaking about attitude to work, maintenance, management, and general deligence) they might infiltrate the rail system and render it moot, or just as ineffective. In that case billions down the drain and very little to show, not to mention we still have to maintain it.

Try to work with what you have and improve on it show the population that it is working and then go from there.

Honestly we have a naturally occurring source of asphalt here in Trinidad and yet our roads are terrible, no effort or engineering goes into their construction let alone maintenence.

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

^ But hoss allyuh not easy. I remember these same tuners who complaining about the RR, was backing Rowley and the PNM 100% right here on tuner just before election infact I remember allyuh was 100% for the RR because the PNM has the best ideas. Infact we made joke about Kamla and the bridge to Tobago with Rowley schooling her on Engineering

Then what went on? everybody get a nice surprise, imbert say fuel subsidy will be gone to instead subsidize the RR. This one allyuh was not expecting ent? Now man get quiet and yuh doh hear that great is the PNM talk no more.

Not a single tuner complained about the money to fund this RR, but the minute Imbert mention that fuel subsidy and how they going to subsidize the RR everybody all of ah sudden concerned about this tax payers money and how this is real money to waste and we can't afford that, now is $4000 a month in Gasoline when the subsidy is gone. All I could say is time for us to listen to the raging bull and tighten we jockey shorts. It looks like he means business.

[bluesclues]

^ But hoss allyuh not easy. I remember these same tuners who complaining about the RR, was backing Rowley and the PNM 100% right here on tuner just before election infact I remember allyuh was 100% for the RR because the PNM has the best ideas. Infact we made joke about Kamla and the bridge to Tobago with Rowley schooling her on Engineering

Then what went on? everybody get a nice surprise, imbert say fuel subsidy will be gone to instead subsidize the RR. This one allyuh was not expecting ent? Now man get quiet and yuh doh hear that great is the PNM talk no more.

Not a single tuner complained about the money to fund this RR, but the minute Imbert mention that fuel subsidy and how they going to subsidize the RR everybody all of ah sudden concerned about this tax payers money and how this is real money to waste and we can't afford that, now is $4000 a month in Gasoline when the subsidy is gone. All I could say is time for us to listen to the raging bull and tighten we jockey shorts. It looks like he means business.

well me i come to shutdown the rapid rail 5 minutes after the budget presentation. my reasons have nothing to do with the subsidy. they have to do with being in a deficit and also being in a juxtaposed oil market.

allyuh talkin about buying the rail now before the economy bust. but is this rail will make the economy bust. i do not see why we cannot reverse the deficit and return to savings and 5 yrs from now when we have 15bn in savings and we know we weathered the storm of the oil market during that period we could pelt 15bn on a rapid rail. with a stronger dollar that in actuality could be closer to 30bn in worth when compared to its purchasing power today.


ahh boy what can i say, the wisdom of man has many deficiencies, but experience and old age can make one assume themselves to be wise. which is not always the case. that is all i will say on the topic again.

u know how i does do it. i does talk and talk and talk, and then.. i does get quiet, and wait to come back and say.. 'i told u so'. lol j/k. but serious. i leaving this rapid rail ting alone now. if they want it done it will go through. and some new administration will have to come and save we ass from gratin on the concrete.

just remember, 'a problem cannot be solved by the same level of intelligence that created it'

[hustla_ambition101]

ED

We already have a Bus Route, it just needs to be upgraded... BRT can move 40,000 persons per hr, and believe it or not they can do it with our CURRENT bus route.

I wonder if you ever bothered to watch a single video on BRT posted here or if you just talking out yuh posterior

Then there is already a 3rd lane ripe for use from Chaguanus straight to the top of the highway - doh tell me that lane is for cars, I tort yuh say yuh wanted cars off de roads???

Of course there would have to be some upgrades to be made (like a concrete separation for the bus lane on the highway) but it is doable WE WILL SEE THE BENEFIT IN JUST A YEAR, surely this must count for something???

Then you point out private cars using the bus route, with this reform not even the PRIME MINISTER will be allowed to drive on the Bus Route (unless he is a passenger of the bus service). It must become inconceivable for Trinis to consider driving on the bus route because is instant lockup.

We talking about camera surveillance, control rooms staffed 24hrs, GPS trackers on every bus etc. NOT WHAT WE HAVE NOW

With a regular closely monitored schedule it would mean that at those places where motorist have to cross the Bus route it can now be done in a way that maximizes efficiency and minimizes traffic. If 8 buses runs every 5 mins during rush hour then it means that these lights crossing the Bus Route can be kept green for 4 minutes, and red for just 1 minute.

Basically why improve transport next ten years (while seriously hampering transport during that 10 year period because of construction of such a large scale project) when you can radically improve transport in 1 year?

LAWL.....doomed to fail due to the mentality of Trinis.

[Numb3r4]

I was not a supporter of the rail project. As I said before there were other issues that warranted the PP being voted out.

[Numb3r4]

If anything the population voted for a change.

[Numb3r4]

I don't think that the populace has a bad mentality because they don't want the rail. They are just skeptical given the current economic situation and the fact that we have a history of mis-manage not to mention a lot of failing institutions that need help.

[cherrypopper]

Despite what. . That rail must go on. .oil can be $1 a barrel... shareholders waiting since 2009.

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

I am wondering something though, at this very point say you could snap your fingers like magic and put back UNC in power which would mean same crap but no Rail and no fuel subsidy removal

Who here would be willing to do it? Numb3r4, bluesclues? would you?
Do you still at this point prefer PNM with Rail vs Moonilal with no rail?

[Numb3r4]

It isn't about the rail it is about changing a culture. One of waste.