BREAKING NEWS: TTASA gets Camden for racing

[link]

rcadiz wrote
I am assuming that the reason for the birth of TTUNDRA was to give the drag racing drivers a voice. How come we don't see Rally / Kart / Dex drivers forming their own associations?

probably because the drag racers DON'T see the correct support coming from ASPL & ARA the way the other organisations support their membership ??

[SR]

has ttasa supported circuit racers without a circuit track?

Link forever shifting blame to autosport.

Without a drag racing track what do you expect a drag racing association to do?

Link it was ttasa that lost wallerfield not autosport and it was ttasa that lost camden, not autosport. Or do you still feel it was autosport responsibility to fix the dip on ttasa's circuit track?

wasn't autosport the one who had an event just last week with a launch area and with lights and timing system?

[TeamH2O]

lol @ that statement, really link? really? *sighs*

[sparky]

The more you guys write, the more your true colours shows and your real picture not looking good. WE AT TTUNDRA IS NOT IN THE HABIT OF BAD MOUTHING OTHER ORGANIZATION OR TO TELL THEM WHAT TO DO WE HAVE OUR OWN SHORT COMINGS TO DEAL WITH AS A YOUNG BODY BUT WE ARE WILLING TO PUT ASIDE OUR PREJUDICES AND WORK WITH ANY ORGANIZATION TO SEEK OUR BEST INTEREST FULL STOP ENGLISH SHOULD BE EASE TO UNDERSTAND. May I suggest you work out your differences behind closed doors with TTASA, then report to us the results and it is OUR DEMOCRATIC RIGHT TO FORM TTUNDRA.

[rcadiz]

The more you guys write, the more your true colours shows and your real picture not looking good. WE AT TTUNDRA IS NOT IN THE HABIT OF BAD MOUTHING OTHER ORGANIZATION OR TO TELL THEM WHAT TO DO WE HAVE OUR OWN SHORT COMINGS TO DEAL WITH AS A YOUNG BODY BUT WE ARE WILLING TO PUT ASIDE OUR PREJUDICES AND WORK WITH ANY ORGANIZATION TO SEEK OUR BEST INTEREST FULL STOP ENGLISH SHOULD BE EASE TO UNDERSTAND. May I suggest you work out your differences behind closed doors with TTASA, then report to us the results and it is OUR DEMOCRATIC RIGHT TO FORM TTUNDRA.

Alright so this post is definitely not about TTUNDRA and what we feel you'll should do, of course its your right to do whatever you wish. Not sure how you inferred that anybody is bad mouthing TTUNDRA either. However while discussions are continuing with TTASA, there are many moves being done outside negotiations regarding affiliates etc. So it is important that everyone know as many of the facts regarding NSO/ASN/FIA etc. etc....How can you make decisions for the betterment of your organization without knowing what is being discussed in the meetings that will ultimately affect you?

Every competitor/member needs to know how things are proceeding. No group ASN/NSO whoever has the authority to simply make decisions without continued consultation with the stakeholders. Or are we going to continue along the same 'that's the way it is - deal with it'.

So might i politely suggest that you continue to read and make sure you are informed about what is going on. And i am not sure 'the true colours' you refer to either. Exactly what 'colours' are being portrayed in my posts other than information that needs to be for public consideration?

[cornfused]

You know Duane pointed put to me a model that works for the US . The governing body for motor sport should set the rules and certify events , not be involved in hosting events themselves , in effect its the board of directors for motorsports .The organizations would then undertake the hosting of events .

What many would like to know may be contained in some of the following questions:

When is the next event?

What is needed to enter the next event , by way of fees , specific requirements ?

Mind you also the cost and the worth less than newspaper Trinidad and Tobago version of an FIA, license , if required ?

[rcadiz]

You know Duane pointed put to me a model that works for the US and everywhere else in the world including FIA . The governing body for motor sport should set the rules and certify events , not be involved in hosting events themselves , in effect its the board of directors for motorsports .The organizations would then undertake the hosting of events . The Clubs and Associations can be left to set rules and regulations, however it is the Governing body's job to ensure that they abide by the rules that they have set - in competition etc.

What many would like to know may be contained in some of the following questions:

When is the next event? In the absence of a master calendar check the clubs facebook pages and/or websites

What is needed to enter the next event , by way of fees , specific requirements You do not require any sanctioning for a local Club level event, however all competitors should be screened and approved by the Club for competence. FIA sanctioning is required when an international event is hosted and you have competitors coming in from FIA regions. ?

Mind you also the cost and the worth less than newspaper Trinidad and Tobago version of an FIA, license , if required ?Not required for Club events, usually in place when drivers go abroad for international events. Competitors should at least have a Club competitor's license which states that you are deemed fit and competent by the organizers.

[sparky]

The point you guys are missing is the conditions under which camp den was given to TTASA for use, hence the reason they are running the events. At the last TTASA meeting Mr Ali did say that TTASA is heading to federation status

[link]

What is needed to enter the next event , by way of fees , specific requirements You do not require any sanctioning for a local Club level event, however all competitors should be screened and approved by the Club for competence. FIA sanctioning is required when an international event is hosted and you have competitors coming in from FIA regions. ?
Mind you also the cost and the worth less than newspaper Trinidad and Tobago version of an FIA, license , if required ?Not required for Club events, usually in place when drivers go abroad for international events. Competitors should at least have a Club competitor's license which states that you are deemed fit and competent by the organizers.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... 1.2011.pdf
.
10. ASN :
A national automobile club or other national body recognised by
the FIA as sole holder of sporting power in a country.
.
18. National Event
......
A national event is placed under the sole sporting
supervision of an ASN, which exercises its power of
regulation and organisation while respecting the general
conditions of application of the present Code (see articles 3
and 53).
A national event is open only to competitors and drivers
holding a licence issued by the ASN of the country in which
that event takes place.
....
A national event may, at the discretion of the
authorising ASN, accept the participation of licence-holders
from other ASNs.
....
.
19. Restricted Event
A national or international event such as described in
articles 17 and 18 may be called "restricted" when the
competitors or drivers who take part in the event have to
comply with particular conditions not provided in Articles 17
and 18 above, for instance, events by invitation come under
restricted events.
...........
.
please, mr.rcadiz........advise how you arrived at your statements above (italics)

You do not require any sanctioning for a local Club level event...
FIA, license Not required for Club events....

...I have posted excerpts of the International Sporting Code for your easy reference.
.
also, the ISC weblink is posted above for more easy reference.
rgds

[wagonrunner]

What is needed to enter the next event , by way of fees , specific requirements You do not require any sanctioning for a local Club level event, however all competitors should be screened and approved by the Club for competence. FIA sanctioning is required when an international event is hosted and you have competitors coming in from FIA regions. ?
Mind you also the cost and the worth less than newspaper Trinidad and Tobago version of an FIA, license , if required ?Not required for Club events, usually in place when drivers go abroad for international events. Competitors should at least have a Club competitor's license which states that you are deemed fit and competent by the organizers.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... 1.2011.pdf
.
10. ASN :
A national automobile club or other national body recognised by
the FIA as sole holder of sporting power in a country.
.
18. National Event
......
A national event is placed under the sole sporting
supervision of an ASN, which exercises its power of
regulation and organisation while respecting the general
conditions of application of the present Code (see articles 3
and 53).
A national event is open only to competitors and drivers
holding a licence issued by the ASN of the country in which
that event takes place.
....
A national event may, at the discretion of the
authorising ASN, accept the participation of licence-holders
from other ASNs.
....
.
19. Restricted Event
A national or international event such as described in
articles 17 and 18 may be called "restricted" when the
competitors or drivers who take part in the event have to
comply with particular conditions not provided in Articles 17
and 18 above, for instance, events by invitation come under
restricted events.
...........
.
please, mr.rcadiz........advise how you arrived at your statements above (italics)

You do not require any sanctioning for a local Club level event...
FIA, license Not required for Club events....

...I have posted excerpts of the International Sporting Code for your easy reference.
.
also, the ISC weblink is posted above for more easy reference.
rgds

sparky, that reads as if it's in the best of your (you and TTUNDRA) interests?
or does it read like you'll be milked?

[sparky]

To race in grenada twice a year cost about 20,000. there might be an event in september and Iwould go.

[link]

wagonrunner wrote :

sparky, that reads as if it's in the best of your (you and TTUNDRA) interests?
or does it read like you'll be milked?

with all that info & weblink provided ...u couldn't find a single constructive idea ???
I'm sure sparky is still busy READING THE WEBSITE & gleaning all the info freely available to all.
.
good luck to you, pal

[zaxxon1]

are all local club events considered National events by TTASA? just trying to understand what I'm reading.

[rcadiz]

There is a legitimate distinction between 'CLUB LEVEL' and 'NATIONAL LEVEL'. As far as the TTRC, TTKA, TORMATT, and CARS are concerned, kindly note:

We each host a CLUB Championship which at the end of the year we have a CLUB Champion. Due to the fact that we are also an NSO (TTRC), we are permitted to submit a name for FCB as a National Rally Champion. We are all too aware that TnT is on their way to having one NSO for Motorsport, but until we get there some people will simply have to accept that the TTRC, and TTKA, are equal to TTASA as far as NSO status (Not ASN) is concerned.

The FIA Sporting Code states that you must have a License for National Events, which is why we have made attempts to have Rally Trinidad sanctioned in the last 2 yrs (it was sanctioned in 2008). The only National Event we have is Rally Trinidad, the rest of the events are part of a Club Championship and restricted to CLUB members and approved guests ONLY. Karting operates on their own as well and runs the exact same type of Championship.

At the moment the TTRC, TTKA, CARS, TORMATT, ASPL, TTMF, are not formally associated with the FIA ASN, and each organization handles their own competitive memberships, deciding who is competent enough to race etc.

I think you need to consider the difference between CLUB and NATIONAL level events. By your post you seem to be inferring that every time a Club wants to have event in a car park around some cones each competitor needs to be the holder of an FIA license which is just silly. As you are all to aware when TTRC drivers compete abroad (Barbados, Jamaica, Guadeloupe) we come to you for a FIA license at a cost of $1200 per head.

And just so you know i have been advised of these conditions by top ranking officials of FIA/NACAM.........respectfully of course.

[link]

We each host a CLUB Championship which at the end of the year we have a CLUB Champion. Due to the fact that we are also an NSO (TTRC), we are permitted to submit a name for FCB as a National Rally Champion.

Soooo.....
at what point does the club champion become the national champion ????
...
at the end of the club competition (which , as you state, does NOT carry a FIA license requirement)...
OR
when you submit a name to FCB to claim 'NATIONAL CHAMPION' status.
.
c'mon rcadiz.........you all organise a national championship series of events with points, trophies, etc to arrive at a result for national champion.
.

ISC
16. Competition, event, race
a) A competition is an event in which an automobile takes
part and which has a competitive nature or is given a
competitive nature by the publication of results.
Competitions are "international" or "national". Moreover they
may be "restricted" or "closed".
A national or international championship is considered as a
competition.
.

want your cake & eat it too ??...(respectfully)

[sureshot_james]

You know I came from the states. I used to compete in the NOPI drifting competitions and am still certified for any drifting event that takes place in the states or Japan. I really do not care for the politics of the whole thing and I think people get too worked up over who should control what. The main problem here is everyone wants to be the chief and no one wants to be an Indian. I hate to tell you all but all chiefs and no Indians and nothing EVER gets done.

I will admit I have no idea what has or is going on as far as this very long ongoing fight continues but I do know this. The governing body should not be hosting the events and all the clubs should have a equal say in how the sports they represent are handled. Whenever you have a main body that's focus is one type of event no matter how they TRY to be fair and partial they can not be and will always show a bias towards their sport.

I am not saying there are not really good people trying to get this done, there are, I know alot of them personally. What I am saying is the whole thing is screwed up and can not will not work in its' current configuration. ONE main body comprised of a number of (Voting) officials from all the clubs represented. Every club has equal voting rights and elections held for the top positions given only by popular vote. If a club wants to join the federation then it must and it's members must meet certain guidelines to be recognized and given voting rights. These should be given by majority vote from the whole federation and any opposing must be given a voice as to why they oppose the nomination.

This way every club is represented by a (chief or two) and that (chief) represents the club as a whole. the club Representative must also be elected by popular vote to represent the clubs at the federation level.
This way everyone has fair say and things will actually get done without bias.

Now that being said we have no where to race mainly because no one has put together a workable solution to how to run such a venue. There are tons and tons of outside investors more than willing to put up the money for such a venture IF the motorsports federation (or whatever it is called) in Trinidad and get its' act together. It's not hard to understand but it is hard for everyone who wants to be in charge to swallow.

My 2 cents

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Link, AutoSport and rcadiz, what is preventing the Federation from being formed right now?
I am sure a decision can be made and a Federation formed where all the clubs have equal voting rights - an executive is elected from the reps of each club and we move forward. I am sure the gov't will like this idea and it solves their 3 NSO problem.

This way EVERYBODY will be working towards a new facility and not just a few select people.

[wraith]

Link, AutoSport and rcadiz, what is preventing the Federation from being formed right now?
I am sure a decision can be made and a Federation formed where all the clubs have equal voting rights - an executive is elected from the reps of each club and we move forward. I am sure the gov't will like this idea and it solves their 3 NSO problem.

This way EVERYBODY will be working towards a new facility and not just a few select people.

What he said .

[rcadiz]

Link, AutoSport and rcadiz, what is preventing the Federation from being formed right now?
I am sure a decision can be made and a Federation formed where all the clubs have equal voting rights - an executive is elected from the reps of each club and we move forward. I am sure the gov't will like this idea and it solves their 3 NSO problem.

This way EVERYBODY will be working towards a new facility and not just a few select people.

Great Question!
A little known fact in the greater motorsport community is that an attempt to form a Federation was made in July 2010, when a document was signed between MATT members and the then TTASA President and VP. The agreement was essentially bringing the Motorsport top structure to Federation status. Admittedly it was not perfect but it was a start. One of the main errors with the signed document was that we did not retain TTASA as the Federation's name, something that needs to be kept so that TnT does not lose FIA affiliation. All in all at least it was a major start to a new beginning in Motorsport. This document was the product of almost 3yrs of meetings with everyone from the Trustees to the Executive in TTASA with all of the MATT executive (TTRC, TTKA, CARS, ASA, TTMF, TORMATT)

Fast forward to December 2010. By then the new TTASA executive had taken over office (Sept 2010). We were all at a meeting with the Ministry of Sport when the signed document was brought up. The new TTASA Executive claimed that the signed document was completely unconstitutional and void in the eyes of TTASA, even though it was signed by a valid President and VP. To cut a long story short, the new Executive said no and we had to go back to the negotiation table.

Fast forward to July 2011 - meetings continue with the Ministry of Sport (one of their head Legal officers is the mediator) along with a few other officials. Today i have attended every one of the meetings with the Ministry and i cannot say why we are unable to adopt Federation Status. A couple of the tricky items are:
1. Who Associations will sit on the Federation:
Both sides want their affiliates to form the Federation, however you have MATT with the majority of 'competitive motorsport', and TTASA with a number of organizations who more fall under the 'mobility side'.

2. Federation vs Motorsport Council
TTASA wants the Executive to remain - TTASA wants the Federation to be the 'Motorsport Council' who sits below them as an Executive. They want to retain their individual membership who will have voting rights. The affiliates they speak of will sit on the Motorsport Board and not have any voting rights as to who is actually in charge of TTASA.
MATT wants the Federation to take the name TTASA - The name MATT will dissolve immediately. The individual members of TTASA will fall into the clubs and associations as per their competitive disciplines (Rally, Karting, Dex, Circuit, Drags, Drifting etc). This will lead to a situation where the governing body is equally representative of all disciplines. One Club - One Vote - Nobody has absolute power.

3. Probation and 1 NSO
TTASA wants the 'motorsport council' to be on probation for a minimum of 1 year, while they 'evaluate' its effectiveness and are able to approve its competency. This along with TTRC and TTKA giving up NSO status so that TTASA becomes the only motorsport NSO.
MATT members TTRC and TTKA are not willing to give up their NSO status unless we all have an equal say as to who makes up the governing body, and what direction we take. MATT also questions the need for a lengthy probationary period. We challenge this on the grounds that all the MATT members have had stable executives and have been fairly well run in the last few years - well established Championships, audited financials etc. Not to mention MATT is a Federation of sorts and we seem to work together just fine. So what then is the need for 'us' to be evaluated. TTASA respectfully has changed Presidents 3 times in the last 4 years, and there continues to be problems with people resigning and there is obviously some internal issues. So MATT refuses to put ourselves in a situation where we are anything less than EQUAL.

I would be very interested to hear people's opinions on the above....

[SR]

but when SR making statements about TTASA he does be talking sheit

[Bezman]

Long and short of it is, TTASA executives are NOT willing to allow new members to join TTASA from other disciplines because of the FEAR of being voted out by the new federation members.. they wish to retain the majority so the control everything... true democracy at work here boys!!

link, where ya answer?? more highlighted red text and quotes etc with little or no answers..

[AutoSport]

Fast forward to December 2010. By then the new TTASA executive had taken over office (Sept 2010). We were all at a meeting with the Ministry of Sport when the signed document was brought up. The new TTASA Executive claimed that the signed document was completely unconstitutional and void in the eyes of TTASA, even though it was signed by a valid President and VP. To cut a long story short, the new Executive said no and we had to go back to the negotiation table.

This position was immediately rejected by the chairman of the meeting, clearly indicating that the agreement was valid, since those who signed it had the authority to so do, but certain parts had to be redone since they were not in compliance with certain FIA Statutes.

And then we have the nonsense of a Federation taking 7 years to be put in place, all attempts to drag this process on forever.

[saltydog]

I would like to be the president of TTASA. Let someone else have a try at it. If there is no money in it for you and you truly only have the interest of the sport at heart stand down and let someone else have a try at organizing motorsport in the interest of all concerned.

I think I am well qualified having been involved in the successful running of two local clubs. I believe I can bring all the disciplines together for the sport to move forward.
I would love to hear from TTASA management.

[Ignorant Ignis]

but who would vote for u ....considering they wont alow new member to vote

[saltydog]

why is that? is it not a democracy we live in? how can that be part of the clubs by laws.

Something not sounding right here. Can someone from TTASA please explain if this is indeed correct?

[worksux101]

No TTASA is not a democracy...just check the posts on the previous page re: their consitution about allowing members and you'd understand.

The part i find funniest out of all this, and always have, is that it is OBVIOUS the masses want the current ttasa board of link and co out...it has been clear for the last 5-10 years, and it is clear AGAIN in this thread, other than sparky and co who jumped on the wagon as they're getting an airstrip to run on for a few months...they have a horrible track record...and instead of doing the honourable thing and stepping down, they continue to fight for power, spinning around the questions asked, and continuing to throw motorsport down the dustbin...its just sad really...

[Bezman]

why is that? is it not a democracy we live in? how can that be part of the clubs by laws.

Something not sounding right here. Can someone from TTASA please explain if this is indeed correct?

please go back and read the entire thread... we begging for an explanation to this for the past 10 years

[Bezman]

No TTASA is not a democracy...just check the posts on the previous page re: their consitution about allowing members and you'd understand.

The part i find funniest out of all this, and always have, is that it is OBVIOUS the masses want the current ttasa board of link and co out...it has been clear for the last 5-10 years, and it is clear AGAIN in this thread, other than sparky and co who jumped on the wagon as they're getting an airstrip to run on for a few months...they have a horrible track record...and instead of doing the honourable thing and stepping down, they continue to fight for power, spinning around the questions asked, and continuing to throw motorsport down the dustbin...its just sad really...

YUP, i would be soooooo embarrassed if I was them, I would have to step down, it would be the only honorable thing to do. If they were motorsports enthusiasts they would have step down long time, for the love of the sport... but this is about money and power, and being able to say "Look what I did"

[W2J]

YUP, i would be soooooo embarrassed if I was them, I would have to step down, it would be the only honorable thing to do. If they were motorsports enthusiasts they would have step down long time, for the love of the sport... but this is about money and power, and being able to say "Look what I did"

I confused Aaron, are you still talking about the subject at hand or TTASA's FCB sportsman of the year nominee

[SR]

sorry link you need to respond and not report thread hijack

facts are being posted

no further facts have been posted regarding original post

responses are required for this discussion and



wont cut it this rounds

you have shown over and over to be selective in responses on this website from inception



step up and respond in the position you stand as a TTASA official

stop being evasive