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zoom rader wrote:5onDfloor wrote:Get over it Zoomracist........MOVE ON!!!!!
Did Mrs Rosa Parks move on?
Did Dr Martin luther King move on?
Did Mahatma Gandhi move on?
Did Nelson Mandela move on?
People will always tell you to move on, because they want to protect the old racist way of doing things
5onDfloor wrote:zoom rader wrote:5onDfloor wrote:Get over it Zoomracist........MOVE ON!!!!!
Did Mrs Rosa Parks move on?
Did Dr Martin luther King move on?
Did Mahatma Gandhi move on?
Did Nelson Mandela move on?
People will always tell you to move on, because they want to protect the old racist way of doing things
^^THANK YOU
So why Kamla wanted to MOVE ON from Reshmi?......
janfar wrote:zoom rader wrote:5onDfloor wrote:Get over it Zoomracist........MOVE ON!!!!!
Did Mrs Rosa Parks move on?
Did Dr Martin luther King move on?
Did Mahatma Gandhi move on?
Did Nelson Mandela move on?
People will always tell you to move on, because they want to protect the old racist way of doing things
Chalk and cheese... the men quoted above were freedom fighters and non racists... Nizam is neither...
eliteauto wrote:zoom rader wrote:5onDfloor wrote:Get over it Zoomracist........MOVE ON!!!!!
Did Mrs Rosa Parks move on?
Did Dr Martin luther King move on?
Did Mahatma Gandhi move on?
Did Nelson Mandela move on?
People will always tell you to move on, because they want to protect the old racist way of doing things
you or Nizam are not in the same class, league or situation as these people, you see racism in any situation where people you're comfortable with are not in the position you feel they should be in whether they deserve or want it, racism is a convenient card to advance your agenda but even a Gov't you're comfortable with distanced itself from the stupid comments made by Nizam
Stephon. wrote:This is a big problem we as a people have. When you walk into a room and there are 10 people. Do you see five Indians one douglah and four Africans.
zoom rader wrote:5onDfloor wrote:zoom rader wrote:5onDfloor wrote:Get over it Zoomracist........MOVE ON!!!!!
Did Mrs Rosa Parks move on?
Did Dr Martin luther King move on?
Did Mahatma Gandhi move on?
Did Nelson Mandela move on?
People will always tell you to move on, because they want to protect the old racist way of doing things
^^THANK YOU
So why Kamla wanted to MOVE ON from Reshmi?......
I guess you dont understand the difference between Politics and Rascism.
We dealing with Racism here and not Politics
AllTrac wrote:Stephon. wrote:This is a big problem we as a people have. When you walk into a room and there are 10 people. Do you see five Indians one douglah and four Africans.
all i see is de four africans on de left and i take out my wallet and put it in meh right pocket.
what kinda places you does go?! eliteauto wrote:zoom rader wrote:5onDfloor wrote:Get over it Zoomracist........MOVE ON!!!!!
Did Mrs Rosa Parks move on?
Did Dr Martin luther King move on?
Did Mahatma Gandhi move on?
Did Nelson Mandela move on?
People will always tell you to move on, because they want to protect the old racist way of doing things
you or Nizam are not in the same class, league or situation as these people, you see racism in any situation where people you're comfortable with are not in the position you feel they should be in whether they deserve or want it, racism is a convenient card to advance your agenda but even a Gov't you're comfortable with distanced itself from the stupid comments made by Nizam
5onDfloor wrote:zoom rader wrote:5onDfloor wrote:zoom rader wrote:5onDfloor wrote:Get over it Zoomracist........MOVE ON!!!!!
Did Mrs Rosa Parks move on?
Did Dr Martin luther King move on?
Did Mahatma Gandhi move on?
Did Nelson Mandela move on?
People will always tell you to move on, because they want to protect the old racist way of doing things
^^THANK YOU
So why Kamla wanted to MOVE ON from Reshmi?......
I guess you dont understand the difference between Politics and Rascism.
We dealing with Racism here and not Politics
you should ask Nizam if he knows the difference......after all he was going to use his POLITICAL appointment to deal with the RACIAL imbalance in the Police Service.
zoom rader wrote:eliteauto wrote:zoom rader wrote:5onDfloor wrote:Get over it Zoomracist........MOVE ON!!!!!
Did Mrs Rosa Parks move on?
Did Dr Martin luther King move on?
Did Mahatma Gandhi move on?
Did Nelson Mandela move on?
People will always tell you to move on, because they want to protect the old racist way of doing things
you or Nizam are not in the same class, league or situation as these people, you see racism in any situation where people you're comfortable with are not in the position you feel they should be in whether they deserve or want it, racism is a convenient card to advance your agenda but even a Gov't you're comfortable with distanced itself from the stupid comments made by Nizam
So your saying that Nizam is a racist becuase he spoke based on facts?
eliteauto wrote:so..all the Nizam supporters who say he's using facts you all agree to the following:
1) the Indian population of T&T (51%) do not support/assist/co-operate with the TTPS owing to the lack of Indians in the Police Executive
2) the Indian population does not use the TTPS owing to aforementioned lack of representation
3) Despite the FACT that 99% of ALL CRIME is reported to regular station chargerooms and 800-TIPS/999/555 and the FACT that said stations, phone services are staffed with PCs, Cpls and Sgts of which no station can claim to have no Indians since they make up 30.82% of the current staffing, still (according to Nizam) Indians don't support the Service?
4) Any institution that has an ethnic imbalance particularly in it's hierarchy is a clear indication of a concerted racial bias and policy? Or is that only the case when Indians appear slighted? If not then I expect a warm embrace for Selwyn Cudjoe by the Nizam supporters here right?
Stephon. wrote:Look. If you want to keep living in the past. You can stay there @zoom
Also based on your stupid argument I should just go into my dentists office and start screaming. "there are too many serians working here".
zoom rader wrote:eliteauto wrote:so..all the Nizam supporters who say he's using facts you all agree to the following:
1) the Indian population of T&T (51%) do not support/assist/co-operate with the TTPS owing to the lack of Indians in the Police Executive
2) the Indian population does not use the TTPS owing to aforementioned lack of representation
3) Despite the FACT that 99% of ALL CRIME is reported to regular station chargerooms and 800-TIPS/999/555 and the FACT that said stations, phone services are staffed with PCs, Cpls and Sgts of which no station can claim to have no Indians since they make up 30.82% of the current staffing, still (according to Nizam) Indians don't support the Service?
4) Any institution that has an ethnic imbalance particularly in it's hierarchy is a clear indication of a concerted racial bias and policy? Or is that only the case when Indians appear slighted? If not then I expect a warm embrace for Selwyn Cudjoe by the Nizam supporters here right?
Dude maybe you dont understand. Nizam spoke about the mangement part of police force not the lower rankings.
Its above stgs that he was dealing with. With the lower rankings there is an equal number of Indo to Afro officers after that there is a glass ceiling for Indo offices.
I think you need to live in Penal or Barrackpore and try calling the police and observe the responce that you will get.
zoom rader wrote:Stephon. wrote:Look. If you want to keep living in the past. You can stay there @zoom
Also based on your stupid argument I should just go into my dentists office and start screaming. "there are too many serians working here".
If this country is to avance then we must learn from our past and never make those mistakes again. We have failed police force becuase we dont have the right people for the job based on merit. If we had the right people in the Police there would be no need for forgein commissioner and dept comm.
zoom rader wrote:Stephon. wrote:Look. If you want to keep living in the past. You can stay there @zoom
Also based on your stupid argument I should just go into my dentists office and start screaming. "there are too many serians working here".
If this country is to avance then we must learn from our past and never make those mistakes again. We have failed police force becuase we dont have the right people for the job based on merit. If we had the right people in the Police there would be no need for forgein commissioner and dept comm.
5onDfloor wrote:I guess you dont understand the difference between Politics and Rascism.
We dealing with Racism here and not Politics
5onDfloor wrote:zoom rader wrote:Stephon. wrote:Look. If you want to keep living in the past. You can stay there @zoom
Also based on your stupid argument I should just go into my dentists office and start screaming. "there are too many serians working here".
If this country is to avance then we must learn from our past and never make those mistakes again. We have failed police force becuase we dont have the right people for the job based on merit. If we had the right people in the Police there would be no need for forgein commissioner and dept comm.
And who are the right people based on merit Sir Zoom...
eliteauto wrote:zoom rader wrote:eliteauto wrote:so..all the Nizam supporters who say he's using facts you all agree to the following:
1) the Indian population of T&T (51%) do not support/assist/co-operate with the TTPS owing to the lack of Indians in the Police Executive
2) the Indian population does not use the TTPS owing to aforementioned lack of representation
3) Despite the FACT that 99% of ALL CRIME is reported to regular station chargerooms and 800-TIPS/999/555 and the FACT that said stations, phone services are staffed with PCs, Cpls and Sgts of which no station can claim to have no Indians since they make up 30.82% of the current staffing, still (according to Nizam) Indians don't support the Service?
4) Any institution that has an ethnic imbalance particularly in it's hierarchy is a clear indication of a concerted racial bias and policy? Or is that only the case when Indians appear slighted? If not then I expect a warm embrace for Selwyn Cudjoe by the Nizam supporters here right?
Dude maybe you dont understand. Nizam spoke about the mangement part of police force not the lower rankings.
Its above stgs that he was dealing with. With the lower rankings there is an equal number of Indo to Afro officers after that there is a glass ceiling for Indo offices.
I think you need to live in Penal or Barrackpore and try calling the police and observe the responce that you will get.
anyone told Nadir Khan, Dyo Mohammed and Noor Kenny Mohammed about this ceiling? Or maybe it was gypsum at the time and not glass
also don't tell me what Nizam said, I know what he said and you're conveniently avoiding his statement in it's entirety so as the focus on the one point you can relate to, are my questions too hard?
zoom rader wrote:5onDfloor wrote:zoom rader wrote:Stephon. wrote:Look. If you want to keep living in the past. You can stay there @zoom
Also based on your stupid argument I should just go into my dentists office and start screaming. "there are too many serians working here".
If this country is to avance then we must learn from our past and never make those mistakes again. We have failed police force becuase we dont have the right people for the job based on merit. If we had the right people in the Police there would be no need for forgein commissioner and dept comm.
And who are the right people based on merit Sir Zoom...
Those that pass the exams and interviews. The current interviewing panel is flawed as stated in Selwin Ryan report,Where all the members of the Panel are afro Trinis and show biased agianst Indos. I did not say it ,Ryan did.
5onDfloor wrote:zoom rader wrote:5onDfloor wrote:zoom rader wrote:Stephon. wrote:Look. If you want to keep living in the past. You can stay there @zoom
Also based on your stupid argument I should just go into my dentists office and start screaming. "there are too many serians working here".
If this country is to avance then we must learn from our past and never make those mistakes again. We have failed police force becuase we dont have the right people for the job based on merit. If we had the right people in the Police there would be no need for forgein commissioner and dept comm.
And who are the right people based on merit Sir Zoom...
Those that pass the exams and interviews. The current interviewing panel is flawed as stated in Selwin Ryan report,Where all the members of the Panel are afro Trinis and show biased agianst Indos. I did not say it ,Ryan did.
Now you are quoting another "racist" by your standards to support your argument?.....
zoom rader wrote:5onDfloor wrote:zoom rader wrote:Stephon. wrote:Look. If you want to keep living in the past. You can stay there @zoom
Also based on your stupid argument I should just go into my dentists office and start screaming. "there are too many serians working here".
If this country is to avance then we must learn from our past and never make those mistakes again. We have failed police force becuase we dont have the right people for the job based on merit. If we had the right people in the Police there would be no need for forgein commissioner and dept comm.
And who are the right people based on merit Sir Zoom...
Those that pass the exams and interviews. The current interviewing panel is flawed as stated in Selwin Ryan report,Where all the members of the Panel are afro Trinis and show biased agianst Indos. I did not say it ,Ryan did.
THE GREAT RACE DEBATE
Report points to racial bias, not racism
By Kevin Baldeosingh
Story Created: Apr 2, 2011 at 10:38 PM ECT
Story Updated: Apr 3, 2011 at 11:40 AM ECT
Even if senior members of the Police Service aren't racist, racial bias may still be preventing Indo-Trinidadians from being promoted in the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service (TTPS).
This is the conclusion of a 1993 report on ethnicity in the Service, as well as recent psychological research on prejudice. Criminologist Ramesh Deosaran says, "In sensitive matters, research shows that people tend to trust their own. But I'm not sure that applies to Trinidad." Deosaran, who has done consultancy work for the TTPS, notes, "In my experience, Indo officers are not better or worse than Afro ones in terms of taking reports or conducting investigations efficiently."
Chairman of the Police Service Commission, Nizam Mohammed, sparked controversy last week when he told a Joint Select Committee of Parliament that Indo-Trinidadians do not feel protected by police officers became most members of the TTPS are Afro-Trinidadians. "You cannot hope to revive or restore the confidence of the public in the Police Service, if you do not have a properly structured Police Service," Mohammed said. He cited figures showing that 100 per cent of senior superintendents were Afro, and 70 per cent of superintendents. Mohammed also erroneously claimed that 50 per cent of the population was of East Indian origin (the actual figure is 40 per cent, with Afros 37.5 per cent) and said, "They have to feel protected by the Police Service and, when they see the hierarchy of the Police Service, it is as imbalanced as is reflected in these figures."
Professor Deosaran believes that an ethnic configuration will help promote community policing. He finds that the powers-that-be have already mishandled the matter, however. "The Government should have had a more scientific approach," he says, adding that the statistics cited by Mohammed are meaningless. "Until we know how many Indians applied to join the Police Service, any remarks about ethnic bias in the Police Service appear scurrilous and uninformed," he said in a telephone interview with the Sunday Express.
A 2009 ad published by the Police Service, with names and photos of applicants who were being considered for enlistment, showed that nearly half the men were Indo. Interestingly, although there were almost as many female as male applicants considered, only nine per cent of the women were Indo. In their 1993 report, titled Ethnicity and Employment Practices, political analysts Selwyn Ryan and John La Guerre wrote: "It must be borne in mind that Indo-Trinidadian females were discouraged by their families from applying to the Police Service." Another 2009 ad for applicants chosen to write the examination for Special Reserve Police officers in that same year showed a different configuration: only 18 per cent had Indian surnames, and just 36 per cent of all applicants were female.
Deosaran says that when, as an Independent Senator, he chaired a JSC they used to ask the Commission about racial bias in the TTPS. "But it was always a dodgy issue," he recalls, since then-PSC chairman Christopher Thomas always had the same response – that the Police Service was not motivated by race at all. This is unlikely to be true, however, if only because nearly all human beings do have racial perspectives which are present from birth.
Thus, even individuals in professions requiring impartiality tend to display bias in their decisions. American legal scholar Cass Sunstein has performed a statistical analysis of judgements made by three-panel Appeal Court judges in the United States over a 20-year period. In the American system, these judges are appointed by the US President. "If accompanied by two other judges appointed by a Republican president, a Republican-appointed judge is especially likely to vote according to conservative stereotypes – to invalidate environmental regulations, to strike down affirmative action or campaign finance laws, and to reject claims of discrimination made by women and handicapped people," Sunstein writes in his book Why Societies need Dissent. "The same pattern holds for Democrat-appointed judges, who are far more likely to vote according to liberal stereotypes if accompanied by two other Democratic appointees. In this way, group influences create ideological amplification...But the evidence reveals another kind of social influence on judges. Sitting with two judges from a different party, judges show ideological dampening. Sitting with two Democrats, an individual Republican is often far less likely to vote in the stereotypically conservative fashion... The same is true for Democratic judges."
Similarly, American political scientists Andrew Martin and Kevin Quinn created an algorithm which, based on judges' prejudices and ideology, predicted how US Supreme Court justices would vote. A contest was arranged to test the algorithm's efficacy against the collective predictions of 83 legal experts (law professors, lawyers, and legal analysts). "The experts lost," writes econometrician and lawyer Ian Ayres in his book Super Crunchers. "For every argued case during the 2002 term, the model predicted 75 per cent of the Court's affirm/reverse results correctly, while the legal experts collectively got only 59.1 per cent right." This implies that ideological bias outweighed legal principles.
If judges' decisions are prejudiced, the same is likely to be the case for other persons in the legal system. One local study, which used an Afro-Trinidadian defendant, found that race was a factor in verdicts by juries when the evidence was unclear. "In levels of high evidential ambiguity, jurors in both Afro- and Indo-dominated juries displayed an in-group bias," writes UWI criminologist Derek Chadee in his 2002 book Trial by Peers. "In the case of the Afro-dominated juries, the bias was positive (in favour of the accused). In the case of the Indo-dominated juries, the negative bias arising out of the majority race of the juries and the race of the accused resulted in punitive behaviour against the accused." In response to an emailed query, Chadee admitted that his experiment did not test for jurors faced an Indo defendant, so there are no data to see if the same results would have obtained in reverse – i.e. in a case where the evidence was unclear, if Indos would have favoured the defendant and Afros been more likely to convict.
In their 1993 report, Ryan and La Guerre are blunt about the race factor in the TTPS. "It appears that (race) is sometimes dominant over achievement considerations in the selection of recruits to the Police Service," they write. "Religion, particularly Hinduism, is linked to race as a factor in selection elimination."
However, Ryan and La Guerre also noted that Indo sergeants tended to be younger than their Afro counterparts, which they suggest indicated a "faster rate of promotion of Indo-Trinidadian sergeants and inspectors as well as the Indo-Trinidadian Assistant Commissioner of Police." This seems to show that racial bias, if it was a factor, only operated above this rank. While insisting that the interview panels mostly consisted of "men and women of integrity", Ryan and La Guerre admitted that "Indo-Trinidadian performance in interviews is usually below the standard expected of them because of their good academic records. On the other hand, Afro-Trinidadians perform better in interviews than would be expected from their academic records."
They conclude: "Given the fact that Trinidad is a multi-ethnic society with nationals belonging to two highly divergent mainstream cultures, namely Indo-Trinidadian and Afro-Creole, it is to be expected that cultural factors could account for differentials in interview performance in favour of Afro-Trinidadians."
A significant drop in the percentage of Indos accepted for training in the TTPS (from 34 percent to 13) occurred in 1991, the year when the People's National Movement returned to office. Even so, this ratio is not reflected in the upper ranks cited by Mohammed.
The officers responsible for promotions told Ryan and La Guerre that they would welcome the expertise of a psychologist to improve the process. Deosaran believes that unconscious bias "can be removed or suppressed by having people accountable for their decisions."
And the editors of Are We Born Racist?, a collection of scholarly essays on bias, conclude: "Though we seem to have deeply entrenched propensities to harbour racial prejudice, the research...also shows that we have innate skills to help overcome these prejudices [but] we need to make systemic changes in the ways our educational curricula are developed, employees managed, and police officers trained."
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