Petrotrin refinery shut down

[Gem_in_i]

So a temporary clerk getting $7400 after tax and said tht salary is comparable to that of a clerk in the public service.
How much does a clerk get in the public service? Starting salary.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Thought average employee was getting 45k.

[K_J_R]

Thought average employee was getting 45k.

clearly. since a carpenter cold make 75000 a month in overtime. doh mind the maths doh add up

comess and ole talk trump logic and truth anyday in trinidad.

Increased local feedstock makes a great foundation for a refinery.

The refinery will be sold once people get their severance

except the design basis for the new and gop plants considered feed derived from foreign feedstock which has a higher naphtha yield.

but again everyone is an expert in refining these days. so who knows.

[Redman]

Yes-hence the word foundation.
Its been happening for 50 years.

[kstt]

So a temporary clerk getting $7400 after tax and said tht salary is comparable to that of a clerk in the public service.
How much does a clerk get in the public service? Starting salary.

Why compare it to the public service. Petrotrin in the oil and gas business. They not pushing paper and their greatest risk is a paper cut!!

You should be asking how much does a clerk make in NGC, BP or BG!

[nervewrecker]

So a temporary clerk getting $7400 after tax and said tht salary is comparable to that of a clerk in the public service.
How much does a clerk get in the public service? Starting salary.

$5500.00 range 14 with 14 days sick leave and you start earning casual, vaca and pension. You get an increment (salary) every year until you reach first longevity where its every 2 years until third long and start earning more vaca and casual when you make 10 years service. They get some medical as well.
Petro temp clerks get none of the above.

[ProtonPowder]

So a temporary clerk getting $7400 after tax and said tht salary is comparable to that of a clerk in the public service.
How much does a clerk get in the public service? Starting salary.

$5500.00 range 14 with 14 days sick leave and you start earning casual, vaca and pension. You get an increment (salary) every year until you reach first longevity where its every 2 years until third long and start earning more vaca and casual when you make 10 years service. They get some medical as well.
Petro temp clerks get none of the above.

Except the maximum age to get into service commission for a low end permanent government job is 23, and you need to apply 1-2 years before that to even hope to get through.

They have the contract counterpart to clerks which is the building operations assistant (BOA I) which is 14 sick, no casual, 20 vacation per annum. Along with that you get as with all contract govt positions: no health insurance, no pensionable service, no job security, and no sight of a contract until the day the contract supposedly ends.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

[nervewrecker]

So a temporary clerk getting $7400 after tax and said tht salary is comparable to that of a clerk in the public service.
How much does a clerk get in the public service? Starting salary.

$5500.00 range 14 with 14 days sick leave and you start earning casual, vaca and pension. You get an increment (salary) every year until you reach first longevity where its every 2 years until third long and start earning more vaca and casual when you make 10 years service. They get some medical as well.
Petro temp clerks get none of the above.

Except the maximum age to get into service commission for a low end permanent government job is 23, and you need to apply 1-2 years before that to even hope to get through.

They have the contract counterpart to clerks which is the building operations assistant (BOA I) which is 14 sick, no casual, 20 vacation per annum. Along with that you get as with all contract govt positions: no health insurance, no pensionable service, no job security, and no sight of a contract until the day the contract supposedly ends.

Nobody I know ever apply and never get through.
Plus you dont need any kinda qualifications for that job. You need at least 5 cxc to work kfc so technically you need to be more qualified to work kfc or cut cane than you need to be to get a work in the public service.

[ProtonPowder]

So a temporary clerk getting $7400 after tax and said tht salary is comparable to that of a clerk in the public service.
How much does a clerk get in the public service? Starting salary.

$5500.00 range 14 with 14 days sick leave and you start earning casual, vaca and pension. You get an increment (salary) every year until you reach first longevity where its every 2 years until third long and start earning more vaca and casual when you make 10 years service. They get some medical as well.
Petro temp clerks get none of the above.

Except the maximum age to get into service commission for a low end permanent government job is 23, and you need to apply 1-2 years before that to even hope to get through.

They have the contract counterpart to clerks which is the building operations assistant (BOA I) which is 14 sick, no casual, 20 vacation per annum. Along with that you get as with all contract govt positions: no health insurance, no pensionable service, no job security, and no sight of a contract until the day the contract supposedly ends.

Nobody I know ever apply and never get through.
Plus you dont need any kinda qualifications for that job. You need at least 5 cxc to work kfc so technically you need to be more qualified to work kfc or cut cane than you need to be to get a work in the public service.

Your mileage may vary, i know rell people who apply and never get call. People with cape, without cape, with degrees and so on.

And yes we know is a basic, functionally unskilled office job, nobody said otherwise

[mitch1980]

the re-financing options by the Trade union is "Pie in the sky " approach.
never recommended using the pension funds and credit union to make such risky investment.
this will be shot down by any board .........reality is no investors willing to take on the BILLION $$ debt.
this wishful thinking and hoping by the trade union would not even be acknowledged by anyone seeing the big picture.

the country financially will be better off with the govt plan of action.

[vaiostation]

So a temporary clerk getting $7400 after tax and said tht salary is comparable to that of a clerk in the public service.
How much does a clerk get in the public service? Starting salary.

$5500.00 range 14 with 14 days sick leave and you start earning casual, vaca and pension. You get an increment (salary) every year until you reach first longevity where its every 2 years until third long and start earning more vaca and casual when you make 10 years service. They get some medical as well.
Petro temp clerks get none of the above.

Except the maximum age to get into service commission for a low end permanent government job is 23, and you need to apply 1-2 years before that to even hope to get through.

They have the contract counterpart to clerks which is the building operations assistant (BOA I) which is 14 sick, no casual, 20 vacation per annum. Along with that you get as with all contract govt positions: no health insurance, no pensionable service, no job security, and no sight of a contract until the day the contract supposedly ends.

Nobody I know ever apply and never get through.
Plus you dont need any kinda qualifications for that job. You need at least 5 cxc to work kfc so technically you need to be more qualified to work kfc or cut cane than you need to be to get a work in the public service.

Your mileage may vary, i know rell people who apply and never get call. People with cape, without cape, with degrees and so on.

And yes we know is a basic, functionally unskilled office job, nobody said otherwise

Strange, I also know plenty people who applied and never got through. I also know a guy who used a fake cxc certificate and gt, got caught and then promptly fired, then rehired about two months after being fired, and de guy still working there till today. Oh petro...

Men go deny it, cause they really covering their own asses, but most people know the truth.

http://www.guardian.co.tt/article-6.2.444167.d0850075dc

[Joshie23]

Strange, I also know plenty people who applied and never got through. I also know a guy who used a fake cxc certificate and gt, got caught and then promptly fired, then rehired about two months after being fired, and de guy still working there till today. Oh petro...

Men go deny it, cause they really covering their own asses, but most people know the truth.

http://www.guardian.co.tt/article-6.2.444167.d0850075dc

So, for argument's sake, since people are covering asses and what not, who would you hold responsible for that? The guy you know, his colleagues or Human Resources?

[nervewrecker]

So a temporary clerk getting $7400 after tax and said tht salary is comparable to that of a clerk in the public service.
How much does a clerk get in the public service? Starting salary.

$5500.00 range 14 with 14 days sick leave and you start earning casual, vaca and pension. You get an increment (salary) every year until you reach first longevity where its every 2 years until third long and start earning more vaca and casual when you make 10 years service. They get some medical as well.
Petro temp clerks get none of the above.

Except the maximum age to get into service commission for a low end permanent government job is 23, and you need to apply 1-2 years before that to even hope to get through.

They have the contract counterpart to clerks which is the building operations assistant (BOA I) which is 14 sick, no casual, 20 vacation per annum. Along with that you get as with all contract govt positions: no health insurance, no pensionable service, no job security, and no sight of a contract until the day the contract supposedly ends.

Nobody I know ever apply and never get through.
Plus you dont need any kinda qualifications for that job. You need at least 5 cxc to work kfc so technically you need to be more qualified to work kfc or cut cane than you need to be to get a work in the public service.

Your mileage may vary, i know rell people who apply and never get call. People with cape, without cape, with degrees and so on.

And yes we know is a basic, functionally unskilled office job, nobody said otherwise

Strange, I also know plenty people who applied and never got through. I also know a guy who used a fake cxc certificate and gt, got caught and then promptly fired, then rehired about two months after being fired, and de guy still working there till today. Oh petro...

Men go deny it, cause they really covering their own asses, but most people know the truth.

http://www.guardian.co.tt/article-6.2.444167.d0850075dc

Call name.

[gastly369]

And badge number

[nervewrecker]

Pretty sure he cant cuz is he say she say.
Probably another one who claim he wuckkin for $45k a month.

[hydroep]

...Rowley in dealing with Petrotrin disclosed that at the three-hour meeting with the Oilfields Workers Trade Union (OWTU) last week no way forward was presented to deal with the company's debt.

He said they were asked about the numbers and the Union was of the view that the Finance Ministry does not support Petrotrin contrary to the facts stated via audits etc.

The Prime Minister revealed a document dated September 12 which came to the Cabinet called "provision of a Government guarantee in favour of Petroleum Company of Trinidad and Tobago for US$56 million shirt term loan facility".

He said this is over TT$300 million and it comes even whilst the union is telling people the Finance Ministry does not provide support for Petrotrin.

He added that another document dated September 10 spoke to a $56 million letter of credit from First Citizens bank.

https://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/local/rowley-no-apology-for-representing-one-per-cent/article_e268ae50-b7c3-11e8-9819-5774abf17493.html

[hydroep]

Look how all of a sudden everybody willing to make sacrifices eh...

OWTU proposing 15% pay cut
Shutting down of Petrotrin’s refinery

Camille Hunte 4 hrs ago

After initially rejecting an offer to own Petrotrin’s Pointe-a-Pierre refinery, the Oilfields Workers’ Trade Union (OWTU) is now hoping the Government will allow it to run the embattled refinery under a lease arrangement.

And OWTU president-general Ancel Roget is proposing that workers take a salary cut of up to 15 per cent to fund the US$850 million bullet payment due in 2019 to be paid by Petrotrin.

This suggestion was greeted with cheers by workers present at a meeting held by the OWTU at the Eastern Credit Union’s La Joya Complex yesterday where Roget outlined the OWTU’s plan to save Petrotrin.

https://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/local/owtu-proposing-pay-cut/article_3660bad4-b7ba-11e8-9c21-1734e837c4d6.html

[vaiostation]

So a temporary clerk getting $7400 after tax and said tht salary is comparable to that of a clerk in the public service.
How much does a clerk get in the public service? Starting salary.

$5500.00 range 14 with 14 days sick leave and you start earning casual, vaca and pension. You get an increment (salary) every year until you reach first longevity where its every 2 years until third long and start earning more vaca and casual when you make 10 years service. They get some medical as well.
Petro temp clerks get none of the above.

Except the maximum age to get into service commission for a low end permanent government job is 23, and you need to apply 1-2 years before that to even hope to get through.

They have the contract counterpart to clerks which is the building operations assistant (BOA I) which is 14 sick, no casual, 20 vacation per annum. Along with that you get as with all contract govt positions: no health insurance, no pensionable service, no job security, and no sight of a contract until the day the contract supposedly ends.

Nobody I know ever apply and never get through.
Plus you dont need any kinda qualifications for that job. You need at least 5 cxc to work kfc so technically you need to be more qualified to work kfc or cut cane than you need to be to get a work in the public service.

Your mileage may vary, i know rell people who apply and never get call. People with cape, without cape, with degrees and so on.

And yes we know is a basic, functionally unskilled office job, nobody said otherwise

Strange, I also know plenty people who applied and never got through. I also know a guy who used a fake cxc certificate and gt, got caught and then promptly fired, then rehired about two months after being fired, and de guy still working there till today. Oh petro...

Men go deny it, cause they really covering their own asses, but most people know the truth.

http://www.guardian.co.tt/article-6.2.444167.d0850075dc

Call name.

It ain't making any sense calling man name. De man does already be on here quite often, so he'd get the picture. Besides, he probably printing out vsep right now anyways. But if ya read de article it gives a basic example of the things that goes on in that company.

[nervewrecker]

So a temporary clerk getting $7400 after tax and said tht salary is comparable to that of a clerk in the public service.
How much does a clerk get in the public service? Starting salary.

$5500.00 range 14 with 14 days sick leave and you start earning casual, vaca and pension. You get an increment (salary) every year until you reach first longevity where its every 2 years until third long and start earning more vaca and casual when you make 10 years service. They get some medical as well.
Petro temp clerks get none of the above.

Except the maximum age to get into service commission for a low end permanent government job is 23, and you need to apply 1-2 years before that to even hope to get through.

They have the contract counterpart to clerks which is the building operations assistant (BOA I) which is 14 sick, no casual, 20 vacation per annum. Along with that you get as with all contract govt positions: no health insurance, no pensionable service, no job security, and no sight of a contract until the day the contract supposedly ends.

Nobody I know ever apply and never get through.
Plus you dont need any kinda qualifications for that job. You need at least 5 cxc to work kfc so technically you need to be more qualified to work kfc or cut cane than you need to be to get a work in the public service.

Your mileage may vary, i know rell people who apply and never get call. People with cape, without cape, with degrees and so on.

And yes we know is a basic, functionally unskilled office job, nobody said otherwise

Strange, I also know plenty people who applied and never got through. I also know a guy who used a fake cxc certificate and gt, got caught and then promptly fired, then rehired about two months after being fired, and de guy still working there till today. Oh petro...

Men go deny it, cause they really covering their own asses, but most people know the truth.

http://www.guardian.co.tt/article-6.2.444167.d0850075dc

Call name.

It ain't making any sense calling man name. De man does already be on here quite often, so he'd get the picture. Besides, he probably printing out vsep right now anyways. But if ya read de article it gives a basic example of the things that goes on in that company.

You mean yuh talking up yuh ass.

[vaiostation]

$5500.00 range 14 with 14 days sick leave and you start earning casual, vaca and pension. You get an increment (salary) every year until you reach first longevity where its every 2 years until third long and start earning more vaca and casual when you make 10 years service. They get some medical as well.
Petro temp clerks get none of the above.

Except the maximum age to get into service commission for a low end permanent government job is 23, and you need to apply 1-2 years before that to even hope to get through.

They have the contract counterpart to clerks which is the building operations assistant (BOA I) which is 14 sick, no casual, 20 vacation per annum. Along with that you get as with all contract govt positions: no health insurance, no pensionable service, no job security, and no sight of a contract until the day the contract supposedly ends.

Nobody I know ever apply and never get through.
Plus you dont need any kinda qualifications for that job. You need at least 5 cxc to work kfc so technically you need to be more qualified to work kfc or cut cane than you need to be to get a work in the public service.

Your mileage may vary, i know rell people who apply and never get call. People with cape, without cape, with degrees and so on.

And yes we know is a basic, functionally unskilled office job, nobody said otherwise

Strange, I also know plenty people who applied and never got through. I also know a guy who used a fake cxc certificate and gt, got caught and then promptly fired, then rehired about two months after being fired, and de guy still working there till today. Oh petro...

Men go deny it, cause they really covering their own asses, but most people know the truth.

http://www.guardian.co.tt/article-6.2.444167.d0850075dc

Call name.

It ain't making any sense calling man name. De man does already be on here quite often, so he'd get the picture. Besides, he probably printing out vsep right now anyways. But if ya read de article it gives a basic example of the things that goes on in that company.

You mean yuh talking up yuh ass.

I know it fall in a few people garden on this website...

[Redman]

The plan is not robust enough to change anything.

[ProtonPowder]

If (any) government had suggested using 10-15% of salaries to buy back bonds, the unions would have called it absurd and a punishment on the workers for the failure of the board and management.

Funny how that works out, interesting stuff.

[Mudboy]

Correct me if I am wrong......but if the Refinery is sold, would the present qualified workers get rehired?
If so, they have nothing to worry about.....just a change of ownership.

[Ben_spanna]

Most of the workers should be willing to take a 30-55% pay cut ,
BUT ALL high management should be purged and rehired at a Much lower salary with Less or No Perks!

frigging OWTU wanna have their cake and eat it!

ALl the BIG boys who sitting nice and making style for the past how many ever years NEED TO GO!

Look how all of a sudden everybody willing to make sacrifices eh...

OWTU proposing 15% pay cut
Shutting down of Petrotrin’s refinery

Camille Hunte 4 hrs ago

After initially rejecting an offer to own Petrotrin’s Pointe-a-Pierre refinery, the Oilfields Workers’ Trade Union (OWTU) is now hoping the Government will allow it to run the embattled refinery under a lease arrangement.

And OWTU president-general Ancel Roget is proposing that workers take a salary cut of up to 15 per cent to fund the US$850 million bullet payment due in 2019 to be paid by Petrotrin.

This suggestion was greeted with cheers by workers present at a meeting held by the OWTU at the Eastern Credit Union’s La Joya Complex yesterday where Roget outlined the OWTU’s plan to save Petrotrin.

https://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/local/owtu-proposing-pay-cut/article_3660bad4-b7ba-11e8-9c21-1734e837c4d6.html

[Joshie23]

Call name.

It ain't making any sense calling man name. De man does already be on here quite often, so he'd get the picture. Besides, he probably printing out vsep right now anyways. But if ya read de article it gives a basic example of the things that goes on in that company.

I remember when you were so enthusiastic to get into the Refinery. I'll admit, I applied, as I wanted to get into the Refinery too. I love energy, no secret there. But we all got blanked, now you're working for an MNC as you say and all of a sudden it's 'that company'. So you were going into Petrotrin to change the culture, maybe planning to transfer to HR or something, after a few years in the Refinery, I guess.

If (any) government had suggested using 10-15% of salaries to buy back bonds, the unions would have called it absurd and a punishment on the workers for the failure of the board and management.

Funny how that works out, interesting stuff.

Spoken like a typical Trinidadian. I understand the animosity towards the OWTU, but we quarreled about the worker's salaries at length and breadth. Now, they've put forth a proposal and the talk continues. This is why politicians do what they want because we never know what we want.

[hydroep]

The refinery wasn't bought to save jobs but to save votes...

Geologist makes case for refinery to remain open
Yvonne Webb 7 Hrs Ago

Geologist Gregory Mc Guire has made a case for the refinery to be kept operational. Mc Guire said he does not envisage a TT future without a refinery. He said with 70,000 barrels of oil being produce that is more than enough to operate a modern refinery. He said with more value added to the products, more value will come back to the country. He said he cannot believe that this is the end of the refining business in TT because not to have a refinery is a walk backwards.

Mc Guire was one of a five-member panel discussing Petrotrin, Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow, at City Hall, San Fernando. The discussion was facilitated by the Lloyd Best Institute and attracted a large percentage of oil workers who are facing the breadline if government goes ahead with its plan to shut down the refinery.

Mc Guire said over the last 20 years there have been convincing case for change, and tough action would be required as well as new capital, to have an efficient and competitive refinery up and running. But it can be done. He said from a macro-economic perspective the direct and indirect impact would be great.

He said he was concerned about what would happen to the National Petroleum Company which Petrotrin supplies with fuel and whether that arrangement would continue, or NP would seek its own supplier. Similar concerns were expressed about the supply of bitumen to Lake Asphalt, a critical component of LATT’s operation and who would now import the item.

Since the August 28 announcement of the pending closure of the refinery there have been rumblings among Caricom countries which receive refined products from Petrotrin to fuel their own economies. Mc Guire also commented on the potential loss of this market and whether Petrotrin would be getting involved in the trading business. Geologist Dr Krishna Persad, another panellist said there were huge reserves of oil and there is no need to explore or drill new wells as espoused by Energy Minister Franklin Khan. Economist Dr Terrence Farrell, also sat on the panel along with Sunity Maharaj and Sherwin Long of the TT Extractive Industries Transparency Initiative (TTEITI).

“Our governments have not served us well,” Farrell said.

Sunity Maharaj Director of the Lloyd Best Institute spoke of the refinery closure from a political perspective. She disagreed with Farrell’s perspective that the government bought the refinery several decades ago to save jobs.

Maharaj said the purchase was more to save votes. She said in this present battle, the OWTU should not be the only stakeholder carrying out the burden of fighting back the closure of the refinery. She said while they are an important stakeholder, they are not the only one and urged people to stand up and speak out because this closure will impact the entire country.

https://newsday.co.tt/2018/09/14/geologist-makes-case-for-refinery-to-remain-open/

[teems1]

Doesn't Petrotrin borrow money from the Government every month to meet their op ex?

Then won't that same money be used to purchase the 850m debt?

Once the refinery is running in the red, this will never make sense. It has to make $1 profit before talk of refinancing.

[hydroep]

Has a poorly maintained "Systems Application Product" led to faulty decision making?

Hold your hand on Petrotrin
OWTU to Govt

Carla Bridglal 8 Hrs Ago

GOVERNMENT’S decision to shut down the Pointe-a-Pierre refinery is based on inaccurate data, and the Oilfield Workers’ Trade Union is prepared to challenge that information, president-general Ancel Roget said yesterday.

The Systems Application Product is the programme that stores current data for the refinery, Roget said. It requires comprehensive cleaning, but that hasn’t happened.

“That incorrect data is what they (the Petrotrin board and the government) would have used about the current state of the refinery. It was not properly used and analysed. It is on the basis of incorrect data that they used to describe the refinery as an entity that cannot function,” Roget said. The union challenged the board to prove otherwise.

Roget presented a summary of the plan it had presented to the board of the state oil company. It also sent copies of the plan to President Paula-Mae Weekes, Opposition Leader Kamla Persad-Bissessar and Prime Minister Dr Keith Rowley.

Among the suggestions— improving the refinery’s margins of operation and a joint venture to lease the refinery from the state. If the Prime Minister was ready to keep his word when he told the union in an address to the nation on Sept 2 that they would have first dibs at the refinery now that it’s been closed, Roget said the union was already in discussions with potential partners who are already ready to provide letters of expression of interest in the refinery.

Acknowledging the company’s debt burden, Roget also suggested that workers by back the US$850 million bond, the bullet payment for which is due next August, by contributing ten to 15 per cent of their salaries, which would eventually be repaid. He also suggested that the bond be refinanced, using the more efficient restructuring proposals that the union presented. Key to the viability of Petrotrin, he said, would be increasing exploration and production—the one thing the union and the board seem to agree on. The current production at Trinmar, Petrotrin’s marine holdings, is 18,000 barrels of oil, but, Roget said, of the 927 wells that Trinmar manages, only 40 percent are producing; 140 are abandoned but 490 with potential for reactivation. Getting those operational can lead to immediate quick wins, he said, of about 4,600 barrels more of oil per day. The Mobile offshore production union is also ready to be put back in service, adding 12,000 more barrels per day. On land, he said updated production sharing contracts, as well as risk service contracts could add as much as 15,000 more barrels.

https://newsday.co.tt/2018/09/14/hold-your-hand-on-petrotrin/

[Joshie23]

Doesn't Petrotrin borrow money from the Government every month to meet their op ex?

Then won't that same money be used to purchase the 850m debt?

Once the refinery is running in the red, this will never make sense. It has to make $1 profit before talk of refinancing.

Interesting point. Isn't it true that around 10 out of the 13 billion dollars debt is as a result of the two loans that were taken for projects that never managed to come off the ground? Was anyone even made to answer for the mismanaged funds? People ask why the OWTU didn't flex muscles for those issues, hell even I asked it, but on the flip side; why didn't us as the public clamour for the heads of those responsible for putting the money in front of a fan, the same way we're now clamouring for Petrotrin to be closed down and workers sent home?? Taxpayers dollars weren't being affected then??

But now, Rowley says 'Close it down, it's best for the economy. Them boys overpaid and because of them, we can't get proper hospitals, roads, schools, national security, etc.' We're finding money for the Curepe Overpass, ent? We found money for the highway extension in the East, ent? We found money, somehow, to pressure wash the BL Stadium, ent? Yes, magnitude is important, but it's funny how that works, isn't it? We already have a set of PC*and PD* vehicles, immobile and damaged beyond repair, in front of/behind various police stations, because of reckless driving and what have you, but the same 'deprived' Nat. Sec. ministry, just purchased more vehicles. I guess Rowley is the TTPS' godfather, so it wasn't taxpayers money that paid for those vehicles..oh..wait..sheit..funny how that works, isn't it? Without even so much as an honourable mention to his deceased associate, Malcolm Jones or better yet, his still alive 'good friend', the owner of A&V Drilling, he's closing it down, because it's best for the country...funny how that works, isn't it??..