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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby timelapse » September 21st, 2022, 8:17 pm

matr1x wrote:
timelapse wrote:
matr1x wrote:Without Newton, many would not be possible
Newton was late in the game
Gravity is a concept that can be traced back to the vedas.
Many of his other work also existed elsewhere.
Thats like saying Justin Bieber invented music



Half true. Vague alluding to concepts differs from a fundamental theory of nature and mathematical representation.
Savita Yantraih Prithiveem Aramnaat Dyaam Andahat Atoorte Baddham Ashwam Iv Adhukshat
[Rig Veda 10.149.1]

It means “The sun has tied Earth and other planets through attraction and moves them around itself as if a trainer moves newly trained horses around itself holding their reins.”

You going to use the age old defense that once white europeans didn't talk about it that it doesn't count?
The ancient cultures all over the world had technology that we can't comprehend as yet.Sadly we may never know, because these Europeans have a nasty habit of burning people's books under the guise of it being herasy.
Did you know that the Earth has two moons?The ancient indians did.Ask any indian astrologer.Oh wait ask google.Now you will come back and say that you knew already.

As with everything else, you don't even know how much you don't know.But whatever floats your boat

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby maj. tom » September 21st, 2022, 8:56 pm

Iran. 22-year-old Mahsa Amini, was arrested in Tehran by Morality Police a dedicated unit that enforces strict dress codes for women, such as wearing the compulsory headscarf. A number of doctors opined that Amini suffered a brain injury based on the clinical symptoms, including bleeding from the ears and bruises under the eyes. This was also confirmed by medical scans of Mahsa's skull, leaked by hacktivists, showing bone fracture, hemorrhage, and brain edema. The women who were detained with Amini said she was severely beaten for resisting the insults and curses of the officers who arrested her. The Iran Morality Police said she died of heart failure while in custody.

Nine people are now reported to have been killed at protests in Iran sparked by the death of a woman detained for allegedly breaking strict hijab rules.

Mahsa Amini, a 22-year-old Kurdish woman from the north-western city of Saqez, died in hospital on Friday, after spending three days in a coma.

She was visiting the capital Tehran with her family when she was arrested by morality police, who accused her of violating the law requiring women to cover their hair with a hijab and their arms and legs with loose clothing. She collapsed after being taken to a detention centre to be "educated".
The police have denied that she was mistreated and said she suffered "sudden heart failure". But her family has said she was fit and healthy.
Image
Mahsa Amini, 22, died in hospital in Tehran on Friday. Police claimed that she suffered "sudden heart failure".

Acting UN human rights chief Nada al-Nashif called on Tuesday for prompt, independent and impartial investigation into Ms Amini's death.

She noted that her office had received "numerous, and verified, videos of violent treatment of women" by morality police, who have stepped up their enforcement of hijab rules in recent months.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62986057

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » September 21st, 2022, 9:50 pm

Sadist, violent shias.

http://www.shia.bs/




maj. tom wrote:Iran. 22-year-old Mahsa Amini, was arrested in Tehran by Morality Police a dedicated unit that enforces strict dress codes for women, such as wearing the compulsory headscarf. A number of doctors opined that Amini suffered a brain injury based on the clinical symptoms, including bleeding from the ears and bruises under the eyes. This was also confirmed by medical scans of Mahsa's skull, leaked by hacktivists, showing bone fracture, hemorrhage, and brain edema. The women who were detained with Amini said she was severely beaten for resisting the insults and curses of the officers who arrested her. The Iran Morality Police said she died of heart failure while in custody.

Nine people are now reported to have been killed at protests in Iran sparked by the death of a woman detained for allegedly breaking strict hijab rules.

Mahsa Amini, a 22-year-old Kurdish woman from the north-western city of Saqez, died in hospital on Friday, after spending three days in a coma.

She was visiting the capital Tehran with her family when she was arrested by morality police, who accused her of violating the law requiring women to cover their hair with a hijab and their arms and legs with loose clothing. She collapsed after being taken to a detention centre to be "educated".
The police have denied that she was mistreated and said she suffered "sudden heart failure". But her family has said she was fit and healthy.
Image
Mahsa Amini, 22, died in hospital in Tehran on Friday. Police claimed that she suffered "sudden heart failure".

Acting UN human rights chief Nada al-Nashif called on Tuesday for prompt, independent and impartial investigation into Ms Amini's death.

She noted that her office had received "numerous, and verified, videos of violent treatment of women" by morality police, who have stepped up their enforcement of hijab rules in recent months.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62986057

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby matr1x » September 22nd, 2022, 5:56 am

Blaming shias for what the sunni would do so is playing games. The faith is rotten to the core, and there are some who virtue signaling about how they respect women, but ignore and make excuses for Islam.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » September 22nd, 2022, 9:21 am

matr1x wrote:Blaming shias for what the sunni would do so is playing games. The faith is rotten to the core, and there are some who virtue signaling about how they respect women, but ignore and make excuses for Islam.


You need to make the distinction between shia-ism nonsense, and Islaam.
No where is that abuse part of Islaam.

If you say otherwise, bring valid proofs for your statements, or don't make them.
The onus of proof is always on the claimant.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby matr1x » September 22nd, 2022, 10:12 am

FrankChag wrote:
matr1x wrote:Blaming shias for what the sunni would do so is playing games. The faith is rotten to the core, and there are some who virtue signaling about how they respect women, but ignore and make excuses for Islam.


You need to make the distinction between shia-ism nonsense, and Islaam.
No where is that abuse part of Islaam.

If you say otherwise, bring valid proofs for your statements, or don't make them.
The onus of proof is always on the claimant.



First up, while this might seem to be a Shia issue, it's not exclusive to them. The faith guides the hands of those practicing it and for a faith that is fairly regimented in its interpretation so any negative things done in the name of the religion, has to be tied to the religion.

Sept 11, the various terrorist attacks, honor killings have been done by members of the faith. The actions of those who practice it are reflections of the teachings

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby maj. tom » September 22nd, 2022, 10:16 am

The Gasht-e Ershad (Guidance Patrols) are special police units tasked with ensuring the respect of Islamic morals and detaining people who are perceived to be "improperly" dressed.

Under Iranian law, which is based on the country's interpretation of Sharia, women are obliged to cover their hair with a hijab (headscarf) and wear long, loose-fitting clothing to disguise their figures.

In a rare interview, one morality police officer spoke anonymously to the BBC about his experience working in the force.

"They told us the reason we are working for the morality police units is to protect women," he said. "Because if they do not dress properly, then men could get provoked and harm them."

The Iranian authorities' fight against "bad hijab" - wearing a headscarf or other mandatory clothing incorrectly - began soon after the 1979 Islamic Revolution, a major aim of which was to make women dress modestly.
By 1981, women and girls were legally required to wear modest "Islamic" clothing. In practice this meant wearing a chador - a full-body cloak, often accompanied by a smaller headscarf underneath - or a headscarf and a manteau (overcoat) covering their arms.

President Ebrahim Raisi, a hard-line cleric who was elected last year, signed an order on 15 August to enforce a new list of restrictions.

They included the introduction of surveillance cameras to monitor and fine unveiled women or refer them for "counselling", and a mandatory prison sentence for any Iranian who questioned or posted content against the hijab rules online.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62984076

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MG Man » September 22nd, 2022, 12:00 pm

FrankChag wrote:
matr1x wrote:Blaming shias for what the sunni would do so is playing games. The faith is rotten to the core, and there are some who virtue signaling about how they respect women, but ignore and make excuses for Islam.


You need to make the distinction between shia-ism nonsense, and Islaam.
No where is that abuse part of Islaam.

If you say otherwise, bring valid proofs for your statements, or don't make them.
The onus of proof is always on the claimant.


wjat's the difference? Asking an honest question here. What is shi-ism, and why is it nonsense / different to islam?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » September 22nd, 2022, 12:21 pm

That's obviously an idiotic statement.

I don't know about shia-ism, but in the Shariah, both men and women are to dress modestly in public. For example, it is haram for a man to expose what is above his knee and below his navel (some brothers unknowingly wear too-short shorts on the beach for instance); it is also haram for men to wear tight, fitted clothes, such as tight jeans, and to dress like women (from earrings to the full trans thing). Nb, the rulings are less conservative for men, because men are required to work to support their families.

Islaam is unchanging, so any society or Muslim ruler that governs based on the Shariah (may Allaah reward them), will inevitably have rules of modesty enshrined in its legislation, and have those rules enforced.

It pretty much works that way with all societies, except that nowadays, we have morality that moves with public opinion, which is why we're seeing the downfall of morality all over the place.

As a side note, sometimes I feel more people who like to should "Republic! Republic!", should actually sit down and read Plato's Republic.



By Al-‘Asr (the time).
Verily, mankind is in loss,
Except those who believe (in Islâmic Monotheism)
and do righteous good deeds,
and recommend one another to the truth (1),
and recommend one another to patience (2)



(1) [i.e. order one another to perform all kinds of good deeds (Al-Ma‘ruf) which Allâh has ordained, and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds (Al-Munkar which Allâh has forbidden]

(2) for the sufferings, harms, and injuries which one may encounter in Allâh’s Cause during preaching His religion of Islâmic Monotheism or Jihâd).

https://quran.com/103





maj. tom wrote:
The Gasht-e Ershad (Guidance Patrols) are special police units tasked with ensuring the respect of Islamic morals and detaining people who are perceived to be "improperly" dressed.

Under Iranian law, which is based on the country's interpretation of Sharia, women are obliged to cover their hair with a hijab (headscarf) and wear long, loose-fitting clothing to disguise their figures.

In a rare interview, one morality police officer spoke anonymously to the BBC about his experience working in the force.

"They told us the reason we are working for the morality police units is to protect women," he said. "Because if they do not dress properly, then men could get provoked and harm them."

The Iranian authorities' fight against "bad hijab" - wearing a headscarf or other mandatory clothing incorrectly - began soon after the 1979 Islamic Revolution, a major aim of which was to make women dress modestly.
By 1981, women and girls were legally required to wear modest "Islamic" clothing. In practice this meant wearing a chador - a full-body cloak, often accompanied by a smaller headscarf underneath - or a headscarf and a manteau (overcoat) covering their arms.

President Ebrahim Raisi, a hard-line cleric who was elected last year, signed an order on 15 August to enforce a new list of restrictions.

They included the introduction of surveillance cameras to monitor and fine unveiled women or refer them for "counselling", and a mandatory prison sentence for any Iranian who questioned or posted content against the hijab rules online.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62984076

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Dizzy28 » September 22nd, 2022, 12:32 pm

Frank Chag is the new AdamB??

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » September 22nd, 2022, 1:08 pm

MG Man wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
matr1x wrote:Blaming shias for what the sunni would do so is playing games. The faith is rotten to the core, and there are some who virtue signaling about how they respect women, but ignore and make excuses for Islam.


You need to make the distinction between shia-ism nonsense, and Islaam.
No where is that abuse part of Islaam.

If you say otherwise, bring valid proofs for your statements, or don't make them.
The onus of proof is always on the claimant.


wjat's the difference? Asking an honest question here. What is shi-ism, and why is it nonsense / different to islam?



That's a valid question.

Shias were a break-off political (almost trumpish) cult, now religion, started by a Jewish Yemeni man named Abdullah bin Saba. When the Messenger (salAllahu alayhi wassallam) died, Abu Bakr as-Siddiq (radhiAllahu anhu), his closest Companion and the best from among the people, became the first Caliph (Islamic ruler); this occurred by consensus of all the Companions of the Muhammad (radhiAllahu anhum). However bin Saba's deviant group wanted Ali bin Abi Taalib (radhiAllahu anhu), the Prophet's nephew, to be the Caliph, and wanted to have a blood-line succession thing going, like kingship. But the all Companions (including Ali himself) all gave their allegiance to Abu Bakr. The second Caliph was Umar al-Khattab, the third was Uthmaan, and the fourth was Ali.

During these times, shi-ism grew from just wanting Ali as the Caliph, to inventing outright lies, such as spreading lies and evil speech about Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthmaan (radhiAllahu anhum), elevating Ali (radhiAllahu anhu) to something worthy of worship, and inventing all sorts of weird mystic things, like hidden verses, hidden all-powerful imaams, etc (QAnon-like crap),, all by the way, with the explicit dissension of Ali (radhiAllahu anhu) [That's where is deviates from trumpism -- Ali wanted nothing with these heretics, and neither do we].

Because of the extent and pervasiveness of the Shia (the extremists ones are called the rafidah), they are now a religion, and so you have this those who adhered to the Sunnah (way) of the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi was sallam) called 'Sunni', and these break-off heretics called Shia. The other major cult-turned-sects in Islam that you'll find in Trinidad, is Ahmadiyyah/Qaadiani, who believe that a man named Ghulam Ahmad, who died on the toilet (so probably he's buried there), was a prophet. [In Islaam, prophets are supposed to be buried where they die].


Lots of other weird Shia nonsense: http://www.shia.bs/articles/bmfjr-a-bri ... e-shia.cfm
See also: http://www.shia.bs/series/the-founder-o ... yahudi.cfm

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MG Man » September 22nd, 2022, 2:05 pm

got any objective links I can follow for further reading?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » September 22nd, 2022, 2:35 pm

MG Man wrote:got any objective links I can follow for further reading?


bluefete wrote:Here, go and learn something.

https://www.cfr.org/sunni-shia-divide/#!/


A more academic, outside-in (ie, non-Muslim) pov, I suppose.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby matr1x » September 22nd, 2022, 4:40 pm

Just remind me the age of Mohammed wife again?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby shaha87 » September 22nd, 2022, 4:48 pm

Thoughts?
From a Pakistani textbook apparently.

IMG_5408.JPG

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby one eye » September 22nd, 2022, 8:30 pm

I truly feel sorry for those who do not have faith in the Father.

Those who choose ego over the Father.

Choosing the follow the same imperfections they criticize.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby alfa » September 22nd, 2022, 8:53 pm

shaha87 wrote:Thoughts?
From a Pakistani textbook apparently.

IMG_5408.JPG

Some US schools teach creationism as well

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby adnj » September 23rd, 2022, 4:36 am

alfa wrote:
shaha87 wrote:Thoughts?
From a Pakistani textbook apparently.

IMG_5408.JPG

Some US schools teach creationism as well
What school? If it was taught in a public school, it was illegal.

The US Supreme Court has decided that teaching creationism as science in a public school is unconstitutional.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby daring dragoon » September 23rd, 2022, 5:04 am

shaha87 wrote:Thoughts?
From a Pakistani textbook apparently.

IMG_5408.JPG


so how does this explain the dinosaurs and other extinct creatures? is it allah kept failing at creating the perfect creation? then allah is a failure then.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby De Dragon » September 23rd, 2022, 5:44 am

one eye wrote:I truly feel sorry for those who do not have faith in the Father.

Those who choose ego over the Father.

Choosing the follow the same imperfections they criticize.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Why feel "sorry" for them? Aren't you secure in your beliefs? Isn't that enough?
Also, how do you equate "ego" with non-believing?
How do you feel about Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs etc, who don't believe in "the Father?"
If you have your beliefs, then fine, if other people don't that should be similarly fine, because tolerance of others was one of Jesus' teachings.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby timelapse » September 23rd, 2022, 8:30 am

De Dragon wrote:
one eye wrote:I truly feel sorry for those who do not have faith in the Father.

Those who choose ego over the Father.

Choosing the follow the same imperfections they criticize.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Why feel "sorry" for them? Aren't you secure in your beliefs? Isn't that enough?
Also, how do you equate "ego" with non-believing?
How do you feel about Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs etc, who don't believe in "the Father?"
If you have your beliefs, then fine, if other people don't that should be similarly fine, because tolerance of others was one of Jesus' teachings.
My father badda than his father

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Dizzy28 » September 23rd, 2022, 10:04 am

De Dragon wrote:
one eye wrote:I truly feel sorry for those who do not have faith in the Father.

Those who choose ego over the Father.

Choosing the follow the same imperfections they criticize.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Why feel "sorry" for them? Aren't you secure in your beliefs? Isn't that enough?
Also, how do you equate "ego" with non-believing?
How do you feel about Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs etc, who don't believe in "the Father?"
If you have your beliefs, then fine, if other people don't that should be similarly fine, because tolerance of others was one of Jesus' teachings.


Bruv he has repeatably stated how he feels about Hindus

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby timelapse » September 23rd, 2022, 10:39 am

Dizzy28 wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
one eye wrote:I truly feel sorry for those who do not have faith in the Father.

Those who choose ego over the Father.

Choosing the follow the same imperfections they criticize.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Why feel "sorry" for them? Aren't you secure in your beliefs? Isn't that enough?
Also, how do you equate "ego" with non-believing?
How do you feel about Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs etc, who don't believe in "the Father?"
If you have your beliefs, then fine, if other people don't that should be similarly fine, because tolerance of others was one of Jesus' teachings.


Bruv he has repeatably stated how he feels about Hindus
Is one eye a rastafarian? Should change his name to Sir Loss he eye

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Rovin » September 23rd, 2022, 11:27 am

i tort he fadda was rowdy ...

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby one eye » September 23rd, 2022, 1:00 pm

Username De Dragon since you cannot decipher simple English let me help you.

I am referring to the atheists who reject that there is a God.

Jews - Elohim
Muslims - Allah
Hindus - Brahma
Sikh - God
Christians - the Father

All are just names referring to the Creator.

I am quite tolerant of other religions and ways of life.

Username Dizzy28 you left out a keyword in that. Trini hindus.

These people do wicked and corrupt practices in their temples, practice archaic methods and use Hinduism for all the wrong reasons.

I have stated before I have hindu friends from India.

Even they are baffled and disgusted at Hinduism in Trinidad.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby shaha87 » September 23rd, 2022, 4:33 pm

daring dragoon wrote:
shaha87 wrote:Thoughts?
From a Pakistani textbook apparently.

IMG_5408.JPG


so how does this explain the dinosaurs and other extinct creatures? is it allah kept failing at creating the perfect creation? then allah is a failure then.



I think about this quite often.
How does creationism explain such things?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby shaha87 » September 23rd, 2022, 4:36 pm

one eye wrote:Username De Dragon since you cannot decipher simple English let me help you.

I am referring to the atheists who reject that there is a God.

Jews - Elohim
Muslims - Allah
Hindus - Brahma
Sikh - God
Christians - the Father

All are just names referring to the Creator.

I am quite tolerant of other religions and ways of life.

Username Dizzy28 you left out a keyword in that. Trini hindus.

These people do wicked and corrupt practices in their temples, practice archaic methods and use Hinduism for all the wrong reasons.

I have stated before I have hindu friends from India.

Even they are baffled and disgusted at Hinduism in Trinidad.


How does one use Hinduism for all the wrong reasons? I wasn’t even aware there were wrong reasons. I believe Hinduism is one of if not the oldest religions still practiced today.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » September 23rd, 2022, 5:08 pm

shaha87 wrote:
daring dragoon wrote:
shaha87 wrote:Thoughts?
From a Pakistani textbook apparently.

IMG_5408.JPG


so how does this explain the dinosaurs and other extinct creatures? is it allah kept failing at creating the perfect creation? then allah is a failure then.



I think about this quite often.
How does creationism explain such things?



And (He has created) horses, mules and donkeys,
for you to ride and as an adornment.
And He creates (other) things
of which you have no knowledge.


https://quran.com/16/8

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby matr1x » September 23rd, 2022, 5:15 pm

FrankChag wrote:
shaha87 wrote:
daring dragoon wrote:
shaha87 wrote:Thoughts?
From a Pakistani textbook apparently.

IMG_5408.JPG


so how does this explain the dinosaurs and other extinct creatures? is it allah kept failing at creating the perfect creation? then allah is a failure then.



I think about this quite often.
How does creationism explain such things?



And (He has created) horses, mules and donkeys,
for you to ride and as an adornment.
And He creates (other) things
of which you have no knowledge.


https://quran.com/16/8



What about kangaroos?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » September 23rd, 2022, 5:35 pm

matr1x wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
shaha87 wrote:
daring dragoon wrote:
shaha87 wrote:Thoughts?
From a Pakistani textbook apparently.

IMG_5408.JPG


so how does this explain the dinosaurs and other extinct creatures? is it allah kept failing at creating the perfect creation? then allah is a failure then.



I think about this quite often.
How does creationism explain such things?



And (He has created) horses, mules and donkeys,
for you to ride and as an adornment.
And He creates (other) things
of which you have no knowledge.


https://quran.com/16/8



What about kangaroos?



Indeed, We sent (Messengers) before you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم)
amongst the sects (communities) of old.
And never came a Messenger to them,
but they did mock at him.


https://quran.com/15?startingVerse=10

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