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bluefete wrote:FrankChag wrote:bluefete wrote:FrankChag wrote: Singing songs however is haram, but it isn't shirk (blasphemy), unless the song itself is blasphemous.
Make sense of this for me please.
What kind of songs? Songs to Allah? Pop songs? Non-religious islamic songs?
What about playing of certain musical instruments?
Is playing the steelpan haram?
Are there some drums you cannot play because of the material used?
There is a good book on this: https://darussalamstore.com/en/singing-and-music-eng
Basically, as far as I know, singing, instruments, etc. are all generally impermissible, except for the duff in weddings.
https://abdurrahman.org/2015/06/04/a-great-piece-of-advice-to-the-men-and-women-who-listen-to-music/
Nah, I do not believe what I just read there.
I advise all men and women not to listen to music, because they bring about evil consequences.
So when staunch, fundamentalist Muslim, Inshan Ishmael is playing Arabic music on IBN, he is doing something that is haram.
Did anyone ever tell him that? Or is it that the people are not singing but chanting? Is there a difference?
So singing songs of praise to Allah is haram as well?
And this as well:
And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allâh without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allâh, or the Verses of the Qur’ân) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire). (Surah Luqman, 31: 6)
How do the scholars interpret "idle talks" as music and singing?
Commentators of the Qur’an interpret “idol talk” to mean singing and it is equally applied to every sound produced by musical instruments and diversions. This is the view held by most scholars of the Qur’an (may Allah have mercy on them).
Do people blindly follow whatever the "scholars" say? Sounds much like other religions to me. Whatever, the priest, imam, pundit says is the gospel truth. Really?
FrankChag wrote:bluefete wrote:FrankChag wrote:bluefete wrote:FrankChag wrote: Singing songs however is haram, but it isn't shirk (blasphemy), unless the song itself is blasphemous.
Make sense of this for me please.
What kind of songs? Songs to Allah? Pop songs? Non-religious islamic songs?
What about playing of certain musical instruments?
Is playing the steelpan haram?
Are there some drums you cannot play because of the material used?
There is a good book on this: https://darussalamstore.com/en/singing-and-music-eng
Basically, as far as I know, singing, instruments, etc. are all generally impermissible, except for the duff in weddings.
https://abdurrahman.org/2015/06/04/a-great-piece-of-advice-to-the-men-and-women-who-listen-to-music/
Nah, I do not believe what I just read there.
I advise all men and women not to listen to music, because they bring about evil consequences.
So when staunch, fundamentalist Muslim, Inshan Ishmael is playing Arabic music on IBN, he is doing something that is haram.
Did anyone ever tell him that? Or is it that the people are not singing but chanting? Is there a difference?
So singing songs of praise to Allah is haram as well?
And this as well:
And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allâh without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allâh, or the Verses of the Qur’ân) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire). (Surah Luqman, 31: 6)
How do the scholars interpret "idle talks" as music and singing?
Commentators of the Qur’an interpret “idol talk” to mean singing and it is equally applied to every sound produced by musical instruments and diversions. This is the view held by most scholars of the Qur’an (may Allah have mercy on them).
Do people blindly follow whatever the "scholars" say? Sounds much like other religions to me. Whatever, the priest, imam, pundit says is the gospel truth. Really?
The rulings are not derived by what Inshan Ishmael does or doesn't do, or what anyone else including Scholars of Islaam do or don't do, other than what is in the Quran and the Sunnah (practices) of the Messenger Muhammad, salAllahu alaihi was sallam. So no one is supposed to blindly follow anyone except him (i.e., the Messenger of Allah). Shaykh bin Baz is no ordinary fellow though. He was the Chairman of the Permanent Committee on Fatwa, which is one of the most senior scholarly positions you can attain, so his statements are not given or taken lightly.
If this helps though:
AFAIK, there is NO evidence in the Quran or Sunnah for music, chanting or singing as a form of worship or praise, and the one who says so should bring his evidence for it.
Singing is a form of speech (melodic speech), so singing would fall under the category of idle speech.
This is a difficult one for many people; music, singing is everywhere. But it is what it is (haram).
A brother said to me once: The heart is like a vessel, so why would you fill that vessel with the voice of the Shaytan (the devil) when you can fill it with the Speech of Allah (i.e. the Quran).
Loopholes galore.FrankChag wrote:Phone Surgeon wrote:If you know about it and accept it then you are intentionally profiting from it.
You aren't being forced to accept it. You can decide to refuse itRetirement pension
The first question of Fatwa no. 7121.
Q 1: I was enrolled in the Egyptian Armed Forces as a volunteer from September 1967 A.D. Till January of 1981 A.D., and served in the Army for approximately thirteen years. They used to deduct part of my monthly salary to cover insurance and pensions. This was obligatory. After Allah guided me to understand Islam, I resigned, and thanks to Allah, my resignation was accepted. However, they started paying me 56.54 pounds as a monthly pension. A brother told me that the money of this pension is Riba (usury) and that I must refuse it. Is this correct? What is the correct ruling concerning this pension?
A: If the reality is as you mentioned, it is permissible for you to take the retirement pension as it is a reward for the period you served in the government.
May Allah grant us success. May peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and Companions.
The Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Ifta'
`Abdullah ibn Qa`ud, Member
`Abdullah ibn Ghudayyan, Member
`Abdul-Razzaq `Afify, Deputy Chairman
`Abdul-`Aziz ibn `Abdullah ibn Baz, Chairman
Source: https://www.alifta.gov.sa/En/IftaConten ... 1&BookID=7
abducted wrote:FrankChag wrote:bluefete wrote:FrankChag wrote:bluefete wrote:FrankChag wrote: Singing songs however is haram, but it isn't shirk (blasphemy), unless the song itself is blasphemous.
Make sense of this for me please.
What kind of songs? Songs to Allah? Pop songs? Non-religious islamic songs?
What about playing of certain musical instruments?
Is playing the steelpan haram?
Are there some drums you cannot play because of the material used?
There is a good book on this: https://darussalamstore.com/en/singing-and-music-eng
Basically, as far as I know, singing, instruments, etc. are all generally impermissible, except for the duff in weddings.
https://abdurrahman.org/2015/06/04/a-great-piece-of-advice-to-the-men-and-women-who-listen-to-music/
Nah, I do not believe what I just read there.
I advise all men and women not to listen to music, because they bring about evil consequences.
So when staunch, fundamentalist Muslim, Inshan Ishmael is playing Arabic music on IBN, he is doing something that is haram.
Did anyone ever tell him that? Or is it that the people are not singing but chanting? Is there a difference?
So singing songs of praise to Allah is haram as well?
And this as well:
And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allâh without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allâh, or the Verses of the Qur’ân) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire). (Surah Luqman, 31: 6)
How do the scholars interpret "idle talks" as music and singing?
Commentators of the Qur’an interpret “idol talk” to mean singing and it is equally applied to every sound produced by musical instruments and diversions. This is the view held by most scholars of the Qur’an (may Allah have mercy on them).
Do people blindly follow whatever the "scholars" say? Sounds much like other religions to me. Whatever, the priest, imam, pundit says is the gospel truth. Really?
The rulings are not derived by what Inshan Ishmael does or doesn't do, or what anyone else including Scholars of Islaam do or don't do, other than what is in the Quran and the Sunnah (practices) of the Messenger Muhammad, salAllahu alaihi was sallam. So no one is supposed to blindly follow anyone except him (i.e., the Messenger of Allah). Shaykh bin Baz is no ordinary fellow though. He was the Chairman of the Permanent Committee on Fatwa, which is one of the most senior scholarly positions you can attain, so his statements are not given or taken lightly.
If this helps though:
AFAIK, there is NO evidence in the Quran or Sunnah for music, chanting or singing as a form of worship or praise, and the one who says so should bring his evidence for it.
Singing is a form of speech (melodic speech), so singing would fall under the category of idle speech.
This is a difficult one for many people; music, singing is everywhere. But it is what it is (haram).
A brother said to me once: The heart is like a vessel, so why would you fill that vessel with the voice of the Shaytan (the devil) when you can fill it with the Speech of Allah (i.e. the Quran).
Inshan Ishmael is an idiot, and only uses Islam to his financial advantage, he is obnoxious and coniving which is not Islamic at all, but concerning what you said, why is the duff the only instrument allowed?
Question: What is the ruling of women dancing amongst themselves during a wedding or other than that? May Allaah reward you.
Answer: There is no harm in the dancing of women on the ocassion of marriage and the beating of the duff (a simple drum) along with some singing of virtuous songs (not containing sinful speech) - because this is from the announcement of the marriage that has been commanded by the sharee'ah - However with the condition that this is done in the company of women only, with voices that are not raised so that they pass outside of the venue, and with the condition that there is complete seclusion and screening. Also that the awrah (the areas of the body that should be concealed) are not revealed whilst dancing, such as her legs, or her arms or her upper arms - and that which is shown from these is in accordance with the customs/habits of the Muslim women in the presense of (other) women.
Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan
"Al-Muntaqaa", ash-Shaykh al-Allaamah al-Fawzaan, 2/172,172.
Translated by Abu Khadeejah
Phone Surgeon wrote:Loopholes galore.FrankChag wrote:Phone Surgeon wrote:If you know about it and accept it then you are intentionally profiting from it.
You aren't being forced to accept it. You can decide to refuse itRetirement pension
The first question of Fatwa no. 7121.
Q 1: I was enrolled in the Egyptian Armed Forces as a volunteer from September 1967 A.D. Till January of 1981 A.D., and served in the Army for approximately thirteen years. They used to deduct part of my monthly salary to cover insurance and pensions. This was obligatory. After Allah guided me to understand Islam, I resigned, and thanks to Allah, my resignation was accepted. However, they started paying me 56.54 pounds as a monthly pension. A brother told me that the money of this pension is Riba (usury) and that I must refuse it. Is this correct? What is the correct ruling concerning this pension?
A: If the reality is as you mentioned, it is permissible for you to take the retirement pension as it is a reward for the period you served in the government.
May Allah grant us success. May peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and Companions.
The Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Ifta'
`Abdullah ibn Qa`ud, Member
`Abdullah ibn Ghudayyan, Member
`Abdul-Razzaq `Afify, Deputy Chairman
`Abdul-`Aziz ibn `Abdullah ibn Baz, Chairman
Source: https://www.alifta.gov.sa/En/IftaConten ... 1&BookID=7
Doesn't make sense though. If it as straightforward as they say. Once you profit from something haram you going to burn in the fires of hell
bluefete wrote:
To get around the "usury" concept, they add on a "fee" to your loan which is tantamount to interest, but not called interest.
However, it comes down to six of one and a half dozen of the other. Spin it how you want.
bluefete wrote:This has some stuff but it still makes absolutely no sense.
How can something be haram and permissible at the same time?
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1377/me ... recitation
This making the voice melodious in recitation should be done in a natural manner, not by means of teaching and training according to the rules of music.
Ibn al-Qayyim mentioned that reciting Qur’aan with a tune and in a melodious voice, if it is done naturally with no exaggeration or special teaching or training, then it is permissible. If extra effort is added to the natural tone to make it more beautiful, such as when Abu Moosa al-Ash’ari said to the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “If I had known (you were listening), I would have made it more beautiful for you,” then that is OK. But if the reciting in a melodious voice is done in an artificial manner, with special training and musical rhythms, this is something which the salaf despised, and which they criticized and condemned. It is known that the salaf used to recite the Qur’aan in a sad tone, making their voices beautiful and giving it a sad tone sometimes and a joyful tone sometimes. This is something natural.
Phone Surgeon wrote:Seems like they are interpreting the rules in a way so that the followers can benefit even though in their hearts and minds they know what they are doing is wrong.
I find that religion not sounding as clear cut as yuh say franky.
If men hadda interpret things that haram but sometimes permissible but other times not permissible. Is either it haram or not.
Phone Surgeon wrote:I not sure if you understand what I said though.
I talking about pensions that come about from investments in haram businesses.
If trinidad government invests in witco or they use nlcb money to pay pensions etc....
Isn't that haram?
One of the most amazing form of worship I ever heard, actually started exploring Islam upon discovering this:bluefete wrote:If this helps though:
AFAIK, there is NO evidence in the Quran or Sunnah for music, chanting or singing as a form of worship or praise, and the one who says so should bring his evidence for it.
I like to go directly to the source so I am asking you:
Where EXACTLY in the Qu'ran does Allah forbid singing? I am sure you would not be able to point it out.
If it is not explicitly stated in the Qu'ran then anything someone says to the contrary is haram.
It seems to me that you are a follower of one type of Islam. Just as there are many sects in Christianity and Hinduism, so there are in Islam. These sects follow different aspects of their religion.
The sect you follow considers singing to be haram.
Other sects do not follow that especially if the Qu'ran does not forbid it.
bluefete wrote:If this helps though:
AFAIK, there is NO evidence in the Quran or Sunnah for music, chanting or singing as a form of worship or praise, and the one who says so should bring his evidence for it.
I like to go directly to the source so I am asking you:
Where EXACTLY in the Qu'ran does Allah forbid singing? I am sure you would not be able to point it out.
If it is not explicitly stated in the Qu'ran then anything someone says to the contrary is haram.
It seems to me that you are a follower of one type of Islam. Just as there are many sects in Christianity and Hinduism, so there are in Islam. These sects follow different aspects of their religion.
The sect you follow considers singing to be haram.
Other sects do not follow that especially if the Qu'ran does not forbid it.
"And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allâh without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allâh, or the Verses of the Qur’ân) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire)." https://quran.com/31/6
And, commenting on the above Ayah (Qur’anic verse), Abdullah Ibn Mas`ud (radhiAllahu anhu) swore: “By Allah! The reference in this Ayah is to singing.”
mamoo_pagal wrote:...
bluefete wrote:
I do appreciate your explanations. However, you clearly stated that the belief that singing is haram is an "INTERPRETATION" by the Companions of the Prophet.
Did Prophet Muhammed ban singing? That is a moot point if the Qu'ran does not state so explicitly.
Interpretations of scripture by any religion can be a dangerous thing.
That is why, for example, we have people in Christianity who take one line from the Bible and make their own religion from it. Then, when you do read the entire passage, it has totally different meaning.
Good discussion though. Thanks.
nismotrinidappa wrote:Frank chag are you aware of the Pope and Imam one world chrislam religion? Are you partaking? What are your thoughts?
nismotrinidappa wrote:Frank chag are you aware of the Pope and Imam one world chrislam religion? Are you partaking? What are your thoughts?
nismotrinidappa wrote:Frank chag are you aware of the Pope and Imam one world chrislam religion? Are you partaking? What are your thoughts?
Bad Dog wrote:nismotrinidappa wrote:Frank chag are you aware of the Pope and Imam one world chrislam religion? Are you partaking? What are your thoughts?
Nismo are you referring to this:
https://backtojerusalem.com/one-world-r ... next-year/
nismotrinidappa wrote:That's is one link yes. Also there are many smaller sections worldwide. What are your thoughts?
My prediction is that they will kill each other in the first year.Muslims in the east don't play well with neighbouring religions.FrankChag wrote:nismotrinidappa wrote:Frank chag are you aware of the Pope and Imam one world chrislam religion? Are you partaking? What are your thoughts?Bad Dog wrote:nismotrinidappa wrote:Frank chag are you aware of the Pope and Imam one world chrislam religion? Are you partaking? What are your thoughts?
Nismo are you referring to this:
https://backtojerusalem.com/one-world-r ... next-year/nismotrinidappa wrote:That's is one link yes. Also there are many smaller sections worldwide. What are your thoughts?
So that's NOT a one-world religion anything. It's just UAE project to house a Masjid, a Church and a Synagogue in three different structures on the same compound. On the face of it, seems like an interesting idea from the UAE King; and, it's sanctioned by the Pope and probably a leading Rabbi. IMHO, not seeing the problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_Family_House
https://www.mediaoffice.abudhabi/en/art ... struction/
1. There is overwhelming evidence from the sayings of the Companions of the Prophet concerning that "laghw" idle talks IS music and singing. They lived with the prophet in the established Islamic State and knew when and the reason / application for each verse of the Quran revealed.bluefete wrote:
I do appreciate your explanations. However, you clearly stated that the belief that singing is haram is an "INTERPRETATION" by the Companions of the Prophet.
Did Prophet Muhammed ban singing? That is a moot point if the Qu'ran does not state so explicitly.
Interpretations of scripture by any religion can be a dangerous thing.
That is why, for example, we have people in Christianity who take one line from the Bible and make their own religion from it. Then, when you do read the entire passage, it has totally different meaning.
Good discussion though. Thanks.
timelapse wrote:My prediction is that they will kill each other in the first year.Muslims in the east don't play well with neighbouring religions.FrankChag wrote:nismotrinidappa wrote:Frank chag are you aware of the Pope and Imam one world chrislam religion? Are you partaking? What are your thoughts?Bad Dog wrote:nismotrinidappa wrote:Frank chag are you aware of the Pope and Imam one world chrislam religion? Are you partaking? What are your thoughts?
Nismo are you referring to this:
https://backtojerusalem.com/one-world-r ... next-year/nismotrinidappa wrote:That's is one link yes. Also there are many smaller sections worldwide. What are your thoughts?
So that's NOT a one-world religion anything. It's just UAE project to house a Masjid, a Church and a Synagogue in three different structures on the same compound. On the face of it, seems like an interesting idea from the UAE King; and, it's sanctioned by the Pope and probably a leading Rabbi. IMHO, not seeing the problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_Family_House
https://www.mediaoffice.abudhabi/en/art ... struction/
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