Patrick Manning: 1946-2016

[De Dragon]

cos i do dislike equally, overall. i wold say Manning did OK as PM, by my standard of good governance.

You've stated this ad nauseam, but your replies constantly indicate otherwise. Try again.

so i cussed yuh leader....i'm sorry for any offence i've caused....

i will keep saying i doh care either way, cos it the truth. but then i would take manning over kams (even panday over kams) since both did things of more long-term (imho) value. govt. campus, airport, highways, hospitals, exchasnge rate regime, GATE, financial centre/twin towers/hyatt, NAPA/SAPA, all are developments for long term econmic/social gain, community centres or street lights or rural bridges or playing field lights, are not. my training as an econ. development student makes me think this way, dat iz all...... but i will say (ad nauseum as you say...) BOTH parties have done sheit, and have not tackled crime or diversified the economy. Manning/Panday took basic steps in the latter, not the former, more than Kamla.

so if i cuss yuh leader, and yuh ent like it, then now yuh know why....

My leader? My leader is Jah son. You're the one with some strange and obvious hard-on for KPB. I think you actually believe that people cannot see through your very obvious "I dislike all equally" sham.

[GixxerMan]

Aye, the man does did alot fuh de indian too. Great leader he was. Rowley will never ever be as great as him.

name one thing he did for the east indian community?

[drchaos]

Why people washing away this man sins for?
He was a typical Trini politician ... Did some good stuff, was involved in major racket and had a god complex.

Its sad for his loved ones but seriously ... this guy was no saint.

[Dizzy28]

The good stuff he did was with the people's I.e. Trinidads money and not his own personal one. The way people talking I swear he took his own money and paid for HDC houses.

[drchaos]

A good list of the Nonsense that happened under Saint Manning's regime!
Since Trini's have such short memory!
Corruption Allegations Against The PNM 2002-2010
1. Nepotism, Patrick Manning making his wife Hazel Manning a Minister
2. Planting Missiles and Cocaine in MP Sadiq Baksh Water Tank
3. Granting Brian Manning a Gun License in 24 hours and disregarding all rules and procedures
4. Giving Brian Manning $9 million for a basketball competition ……(Has it start yet?)
5. The scandal and embarrassment of the $2 million legacy flag
6. $50 million dollars Boat that never Float
7. $45 million secret skullarship fund
8. John Rahael as Minister of Agriculture lease a house and parcel of land belonging to Caroni 1975 Ltd. To his sister
9. John Rahael as Minister of Health give his sons the contract to provide drugs for the CDAP programme
10. Penelope Beckles father got CEPEP contracts while she was an MP
11. Barry Sinanan law firm get government briefs while he was speaker of the house
12. Patrick Manning rented a house from Lenny Saith brother for $38,000 per month while the Palace was building
13. Jerry Narace Company got the contract to provide insurance for T&TEC
14. Kerwyn Garcia, husband of Christine Kangaloo, gets $530,000.brief from government
15. PNM Chairman Franklyn Khan wife get a $60 million contract days before the 2010 election
16. $5 million worth of materials from the Tobago Hospital went to develop Dr. Keith Rowley wife private project
17. Robinson-Regis husband $50,000 per month job at WASA
18. Tobago Hospital going from $136 million to over $800 million in overrun
19. Tarouba Stadium going from $275 million to over $1 billion in overrun
20. Patrick Manning call to the Marabella Police Station demanding his driver be released
21. Cocaine found in diplomatic pouch
22. Patrick Manning $240 million Palace with $3 million drapes
23. Calder Hart$368 million contract to his brother-in-law
24. $2 billion summit of no return
25. Camille Robinson-Regis credit card scandal
26. Maco Manning SIA spying on law abiding citizen
27. $650 million incomplete Legal Affairs Tower
28. $700 million incomplete Chancery Lane Complex
29. $500 million incomplete South Academy for the Performing Arts (SAPA)
30. $576Million Rapid Rail feasibility study scandal
31. Dustbin Terrorist a.k.a Mr. Big still at large
32. Bombardier jet joyride
33. A condo for the Profitess/Prophetess at UTT
34. $30 million mystery Guanapo church
35. $30 Million Bamboo Networks Scandal
36. EMBD Chairman Uthara Rao using $400,000 of taxpayers’ money to pay for sexual harassment claims
37. Manning/Bakr Land Deal for Election support
38. Manning giving CJ Sat Sharma an ultimatum to “resign or else”
39. Former PNM Tresurer Andre Monteil Scandalous $110 million HMB Shares
40. T&TEC Street Lighting Scandal
41. $1.8 billion overrun on Waterfront Project
42. John Rahael connected to the Monos Island drug bust
43. Karen Nunez-Tesheira conflict of interest when she withdrew her monies from CLICO
44. Udecott Calder Hart scandal
45. Patrick Manning bolting into a Radio Station demanding 2 announcers be fired
46. Petrotrin $12 billion world GTL, Scandal
47. Making former murder accused David "Buffy" Millard coordinator of a $250 million NHA refurbishing project
48. Appointed Mark Guerra as national adviser to the URP
49. $50 Million Blimp that always Limp
50. $500,000 Skullarship grant to Louis Lee Sing daughter-in-law, Laurel Lezama-Lee Sing
51. Radio License for Louis Lee Sing in 24 hours
52. $55,000 bribery to the former occupants of the Guanapo Church Land
53. Cleaver Heights $10 million attempted fraud
54. Patrick Manning calling Tobago Police Station and ordering 4 Bajan fishermen be released
55. Discrimination against Feroza Ramjohn, Ganga Persad Kissoon and Harridath Mahara
56. Discrimination against the Maha Saba Radio License
57. Rushed to bailout their financier CLICO with billions of taxpayers money
58. “Female” Minister calling the Point Fortin Police Station demanding her son be released after he was caught in a drug bust with 2 Venezuelans
59. Calder Hart as NIB Chairman buying back the $110 million HMB Shares for $130 Million giving former PNM Tresurer Andre Monteil a $20 Million profit
60. $126 Million Broadgate Place Tower Scandal
61. Chaguanas Corporation Administrative Complex—$10 million over-budget and 24 months' delay;
62. Government campus, Legal Affairs Towers—$300 million over-budget
63. Ministry of Education Towers—$300 million over budget
64. NAPA (PoS)—$234 million over-budget
65. NAPA (San Fernando)—$238 million over-budget
66. Beverly Hills Housing—$106 million over-budget
67. Three questionable payments to Bouygues days before the Election, payments were made on May 14 ($3.6 million), May 14 ($10 million) and May 19 ($5 million)
68. Sunway Construction $300 million quarry contract Scandal

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

drchaos what should we talk about at your funeral/rip thread? Serious question.

[eliteauto]

can't expect class from classless people

[kcgilll]

A good list of the Nonsense that happened under Saint Manning's regime!
Since Trini's have such short memory!
Corruption Allegations Against The PNM 2002-2010
1. Nepotism, Patrick Manning making his wife Hazel Manning a Minister
2. Planting Missiles and Cocaine in MP Sadiq Baksh Water Tank
3. Granting Brian Manning a Gun License in 24 hours and disregarding all rules and procedures
4. Giving Brian Manning $9 million for a basketball competition ……(Has it start yet?)
5. The scandal and embarrassment of the $2 million legacy flag
6. $50 million dollars Boat that never Float
7. $45 million secret skullarship fund
8. John Rahael as Minister of Agriculture lease a house and parcel of land belonging to Caroni 1975 Ltd. To his sister
9. John Rahael as Minister of Health give his sons the contract to provide drugs for the CDAP programme
10. Penelope Beckles father got CEPEP contracts while she was an MP
11. Barry Sinanan law firm get government briefs while he was speaker of the house
12. Patrick Manning rented a house from Lenny Saith brother for $38,000 per month while the Palace was building
13. Jerry Narace Company got the contract to provide insurance for T&TEC
14. Kerwyn Garcia, husband of Christine Kangaloo, gets $530,000.brief from government
15. PNM Chairman Franklyn Khan wife get a $60 million contract days before the 2010 election
16. $5 million worth of materials from the Tobago Hospital went to develop Dr. Keith Rowley wife private project
17. Robinson-Regis husband $50,000 per month job at WASA
18. Tobago Hospital going from $136 million to over $800 million in overrun
19. Tarouba Stadium going from $275 million to over $1 billion in overrun
20. Patrick Manning call to the Marabella Police Station demanding his driver be released
21. Cocaine found in diplomatic pouch
22. Patrick Manning $240 million Palace with $3 million drapes
23. Calder Hart$368 million contract to his brother-in-law
24. $2 billion summit of no return
25. Camille Robinson-Regis credit card scandal
26. Maco Manning SIA spying on law abiding citizen
27. $650 million incomplete Legal Affairs Tower
28. $700 million incomplete Chancery Lane Complex
29. $500 million incomplete South Academy for the Performing Arts (SAPA)
30. $576Million Rapid Rail feasibility study scandal
31. Dustbin Terrorist a.k.a Mr. Big still at large
32. Bombardier jet joyride
33. A condo for the Profitess/Prophetess at UTT
34. $30 million mystery Guanapo church
35. $30 Million Bamboo Networks Scandal
36. EMBD Chairman Uthara Rao using $400,000 of taxpayers’ money to pay for sexual harassment claims
37. Manning/Bakr Land Deal for Election support
38. Manning giving CJ Sat Sharma an ultimatum to “resign or else”
39. Former PNM Tresurer Andre Monteil Scandalous $110 million HMB Shares
40. T&TEC Street Lighting Scandal
41. $1.8 billion overrun on Waterfront Project
42. John Rahael connected to the Monos Island drug bust
43. Karen Nunez-Tesheira conflict of interest when she withdrew her monies from CLICO
44. Udecott Calder Hart scandal
45. Patrick Manning bolting into a Radio Station demanding 2 announcers be fired
46. Petrotrin $12 billion world GTL, Scandal
47. Making former murder accused David "Buffy" Millard coordinator of a $250 million NHA refurbishing project
48. Appointed Mark Guerra as national adviser to the URP
49. $50 Million Blimp that always Limp
50. $500,000 Skullarship grant to Louis Lee Sing daughter-in-law, Laurel Lezama-Lee Sing
51. Radio License for Louis Lee Sing in 24 hours
52. $55,000 bribery to the former occupants of the Guanapo Church Land
53. Cleaver Heights $10 million attempted fraud
54. Patrick Manning calling Tobago Police Station and ordering 4 Bajan fishermen be released
55. Discrimination against Feroza Ramjohn, Ganga Persad Kissoon and Harridath Mahara
56. Discrimination against the Maha Saba Radio License
57. Rushed to bailout their financier CLICO with billions of taxpayers money
58. “Female” Minister calling the Point Fortin Police Station demanding her son be released after he was caught in a drug bust with 2 Venezuelans
59. Calder Hart as NIB Chairman buying back the $110 million HMB Shares for $130 Million giving former PNM Tresurer Andre Monteil a $20 Million profit
60. $126 Million Broadgate Place Tower Scandal
61. Chaguanas Corporation Administrative Complex—$10 million over-budget and 24 months' delay;
62. Government campus, Legal Affairs Towers—$300 million over-budget
63. Ministry of Education Towers—$300 million over budget
64. NAPA (PoS)—$234 million over-budget
65. NAPA (San Fernando)—$238 million over-budget
66. Beverly Hills Housing—$106 million over-budget
67. Three questionable payments to Bouygues days before the Election, payments were made on May 14 ($3.6 million), May 14 ($10 million) and May 19 ($5 million)
68. Sunway Construction $300 million quarry contract Scandal

People that live in glass houses shouldn't pelt stones. Seriously pp did more sheit and have this country looking for money now. Cause they friends and family thief till the treasury had no more so they burrowed and stole that too

[Gladiator]

drchaos what should we talk about at your funeral/rip thread? Serious question.

Putting all politics aside.... i think one should want at least an accurate synopsis of ones life when being remembered after death; the good, the bad and the ugly. Being biased on either one is creating false memories.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

drchaos what should we talk about at your funeral/rip thread? Serious question.

Putting all politics aside.... i think one should want at least an accurate synopsis of ones life when being remembered after death; the good, the bad and the ugly. Being biased on either one is creating false memories.

No one saying the man perfect though. I don't get the vitriol in wanting people to only focus on negatives. Also you hadda remember the man has family and they would basically be grieving. Y'all really expect people to go to d podium and be like "Patos was ah a**hole" or "allyuh fuhget bout Calder hart ah wha"?

It's not that people have forgotten. Some people just have respect that's all.

[drchaos]

Only trying to balance the scales here ... in the overwhelming talk about such a great man he was.
An outsider to this country now coming in would think this man was the second coming of Jesus with everything being said.

I fully acknowledge that he did contribute a great deal to this country BUT !!! A BIG BUT!
This man took this country two steps forward and then two steps back.

If we as a people only remember him for his good contributions and not his bad then we are doomed to continue making the same mistakes.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

I'm trying to understand why you give a fcuk about a foreigner and what he thinks about the former PM and I'm surprised you expect the foreigner to be on tuner and read your post.

Again, no one has forgotten anything. Your post does not help anyone. If this is your logic you should start a thread on misdeeds of all local PM's but in a separate thread.

[daas]

notice all pnm PM died at 69

Not a bad way to go tbh

[Premchand1976]

Watch the movie Troy fellas. Priam and Achilles conversation when he came to claim his dead son's body ( hector ). Talk done.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Watch the movie Troy fellas. Priam and Achilles conversation when he came to claim his dead son's body ( hector ). Talk done.

I hadda watch d whooole movie?

[Premchand1976]

Hehehe. Rainy Sunday, popcorn, snacks and yeah......

[mrtrini45]

A good list of the Nonsense that happened under Saint Manning's regime!
Since Trini's have such short memory!
Corruption Allegations Against The PNM 2002-2010
1. Nepotism, Patrick Manning making his wife Hazel Manning a Minister
2. Planting Missiles and Cocaine in MP Sadiq Baksh Water Tank
3. Granting Brian Manning a Gun License in 24 hours and disregarding all rules and procedures
4. Giving Brian Manning $9 million for a basketball competition ……(Has it start yet?)
5. The scandal and embarrassment of the $2 million legacy flag
6. $50 million dollars Boat that never Float
7. $45 million secret skullarship fund
8. John Rahael as Minister of Agriculture lease a house and parcel of land belonging to Caroni 1975 Ltd. To his sister
9. John Rahael as Minister of Health give his sons the contract to provide drugs for the CDAP programme
10. Penelope Beckles father got CEPEP contracts while she was an MP
11. Barry Sinanan law firm get government briefs while he was speaker of the house
12. Patrick Manning rented a house from Lenny Saith brother for $38,000 per month while the Palace was building
13. Jerry Narace Company got the contract to provide insurance for T&TEC
14. Kerwyn Garcia, husband of Christine Kangaloo, gets $530,000.brief from government
15. PNM Chairman Franklyn Khan wife get a $60 million contract days before the 2010 election
16. $5 million worth of materials from the Tobago Hospital went to develop Dr. Keith Rowley wife private project
17. Robinson-Regis husband $50,000 per month job at WASA
18. Tobago Hospital going from $136 million to over $800 million in overrun
19. Tarouba Stadium going from $275 million to over $1 billion in overrun
20. Patrick Manning call to the Marabella Police Station demanding his driver be released
21. Cocaine found in diplomatic pouch
22. Patrick Manning $240 million Palace with $3 million drapes
23. Calder Hart$368 million contract to his brother-in-law
24. $2 billion summit of no return
25. Camille Robinson-Regis credit card scandal
26. Maco Manning SIA spying on law abiding citizen
27. $650 million incomplete Legal Affairs Tower
28. $700 million incomplete Chancery Lane Complex
29. $500 million incomplete South Academy for the Performing Arts (SAPA)
30. $576Million Rapid Rail feasibility study scandal
31. Dustbin Terrorist a.k.a Mr. Big still at large
32. Bombardier jet joyride
33. A condo for the Profitess/Prophetess at UTT
34. $30 million mystery Guanapo church
35. $30 Million Bamboo Networks Scandal
36. EMBD Chairman Uthara Rao using $400,000 of taxpayers’ money to pay for sexual harassment claims
37. Manning/Bakr Land Deal for Election support
38. Manning giving CJ Sat Sharma an ultimatum to “resign or else”
39. Former PNM Tresurer Andre Monteil Scandalous $110 million HMB Shares
40. T&TEC Street Lighting Scandal
41. $1.8 billion overrun on Waterfront Project
42. John Rahael connected to the Monos Island drug bust
43. Karen Nunez-Tesheira conflict of interest when she withdrew her monies from CLICO
44. Udecott Calder Hart scandal
45. Patrick Manning bolting into a Radio Station demanding 2 announcers be fired
46. Petrotrin $12 billion world GTL, Scandal
47. Making former murder accused David "Buffy" Millard coordinator of a $250 million NHA refurbishing project
48. Appointed Mark Guerra as national adviser to the URP
49. $50 Million Blimp that always Limp
50. $500,000 Skullarship grant to Louis Lee Sing daughter-in-law, Laurel Lezama-Lee Sing
51. Radio License for Louis Lee Sing in 24 hours
52. $55,000 bribery to the former occupants of the Guanapo Church Land
53. Cleaver Heights $10 million attempted fraud
54. Patrick Manning calling Tobago Police Station and ordering 4 Bajan fishermen be released
55. Discrimination against Feroza Ramjohn, Ganga Persad Kissoon and Harridath Mahara
56. Discrimination against the Maha Saba Radio License
57. Rushed to bailout their financier CLICO with billions of taxpayers money
58. “Female” Minister calling the Point Fortin Police Station demanding her son be released after he was caught in a drug bust with 2 Venezuelans
59. Calder Hart as NIB Chairman buying back the $110 million HMB Shares for $130 Million giving former PNM Tresurer Andre Monteil a $20 Million profit
60. $126 Million Broadgate Place Tower Scandal
61. Chaguanas Corporation Administrative Complex—$10 million over-budget and 24 months' delay;
62. Government campus, Legal Affairs Towers—$300 million over-budget
63. Ministry of Education Towers—$300 million over budget
64. NAPA (PoS)—$234 million over-budget
65. NAPA (San Fernando)—$238 million over-budget
66. Beverly Hills Housing—$106 million over-budget
67. Three questionable payments to Bouygues days before the Election, payments were made on May 14 ($3.6 million), May 14 ($10 million) and May 19 ($5 million)
68. Sunway Construction $300 million quarry contract Scandal

People that live in glass houses shouldn't pelt stones. Seriously pp did more sheit and have this country looking for money now. Cause they friends and family thief till the treasury had no more so they burrowed and stole that too

thats what the PNM telling the country no pp ministers charge lock up they running out of blames ,they have no vision nice to see this list posted up just to remind what PNM is all about

[mrtrini45]

My memory of patrick manning is his vision of local goverment reform revenue authority wanted to send home thousands of workers those people cry fell back on him

[Gladiator]

My memory of patrick manning is his vision of local goverment reform revenue authority wanted to send home thousands of workers those people cry fell back on him

The meeting with the"community leaders" at Crowne Plaza was the most troubling memory of mine...

Mr. Manning was the only PM to invite my family personally to his home. The only PM I ever had a conversation with and shook hands etc. He did plenty good, some bad and some un-explainable things in his tenure. He would be remembered by all for all....

[drchaos]

I'm trying to understand why you give a fcuk about a foreigner and what he thinks about the former PM and I'm surprised you expect the foreigner to be on tuner and read your post.

Again, no one has forgotten anything. Your post does not help anyone. If this is your logic you should start a thread on misdeeds of all local PM's but in a separate thread.

Did'nt think that you would take the foreigner thing literally ...

It was meant as an example as to how the PNM machinery is twisting things to make this man look like white knight/savior. Its all to push an agenda as to how Great the PNM is and an attempt to bleach away a tons of stains on their past behavior in office.

[fouljuice]

Yeah I coulda swear it was someone else they talking about.

By the way did Mr.Big, Calder Hart, Juliana Pena, or any of the 'Community Leaders' attend the funeral?

[drchaos]

Did Calder Hart attend?

If not its a big disappointment, both him and Mr Manning were great friends. He should have been there to pay his respects and comfort the family.

[desifemlove]

cos i do dislike equally, overall. i wold say Manning did OK as PM, by my standard of good governance.

You've stated this ad nauseam, but your replies constantly indicate otherwise. Try again.

so i cussed yuh leader....i'm sorry for any offence i've caused....

i will keep saying i doh care either way, cos it the truth. but then i would take manning over kams (even panday over kams) since both did things of more long-term (imho) value. govt. campus, airport, highways, hospitals, exchasnge rate regime, GATE, financial centre/twin towers/hyatt, NAPA/SAPA, all are developments for long term econmic/social gain, community centres or street lights or rural bridges or playing field lights, are not. my training as an econ. development student makes me think this way, dat iz all...... but i will say (ad nauseum as you say...) BOTH parties have done sheit, and have not tackled crime or diversified the economy. Manning/Panday took basic steps in the latter, not the former, more than Kamla.

so if i cuss yuh leader, and yuh ent like it, then now yuh know why....

My leader? My leader is Jah son. You're the one with some strange and obvious hard-on for KPB. I think you actually believe that people cannot see through your very obvious "I dislike all equally" sham.

eh? doh care really....jus dat you iz UNC and cyah tek no cuss of yuh leader/she.

[hong kong phooey]

lol I see the papers have Rowley shedding a tear for Manning . Remembering all the comments he made about Manning, I was looking online and found this
Any comments on this statement on Rowley:
http://indepth.guardian.co.tt/news/2014 ... race-heats

Rowley labelled the ‘next Mugabe’
Other party members have described a bitter and no-holds-barred smear campaign brewing between Rowley supporters and those backing Beckles-Robinson. Weeks before the official nominee deadline, another longtime financier of former leader Patrick Manning has returned to the PNM fold, throwing his support behind Beckles-Robinson, and has voiced a concern that Rowley would be the “next (Zimbabwe president Robert) Mugabe” if he won the election. Sunday Guardian learned that one of the party’s former financiers said if Rowley won the internal election, he would “leave the country.” “He said Rowley would be just like Mugabe and that (East) Indians will lose what they have and will be made to eat grass,” one insider said.

[goalpost]

Desifem yuh realize ED eh around rite? Yuh go hadda take d chupidee 2nr rights this rounds...

[pugboy]

i agree, too many hypocrites crawling out the woodwork

this whole manning funeral et al was a real pony show
bad talk people all how when they alive but talk good when they dead.

his family out of place also, talking about what fund and memorial grant etc is a totally separate issue
and to be jumping to say what to have in his memory before the man even reach 6ft below is rather
boldface. Real hands reaching to grab what they could get.

Worse to be funding a music band forever is very improper, no govt should be funding private entities forever just so, this equivalent to devant maharaj exwife getting $50k/month to run a free facebook page.

[coltspeed]

I attended the funeral on sat, as i could not believe that he was really gone........ i needed some sort of closure.
As i glimpsed the open casket and saw his face, i couldn't keep the tears back...........
Tears that were full of joy, as i was 85% sure that he was DEAD.
Now if i had only had a wooden stake and a sledge hammer i would of ensured the other 15%.
I Missed my chance......
Now i can barely sleep at night.....

[hong kong phooey]

I attended the funeral on sat, as i could not believe that he was really gone........ i needed some sort of closure.
As i glimpsed the open casket and saw his face, i couldn't keep the tears back...........
Tears that were full of joy, as i was 85% sure that he was DEAD.
Now if i had only had a wooden stake and a sledge hammer i would of ensured the other 15%.
I Missed my chance......
Now i can barely sleep at night.....

lol wtf hoss

[De Dragon]

cos i do dislike equally, overall. i wold say Manning did OK as PM, by my standard of good governance.

You've stated this ad nauseam, but your replies constantly indicate otherwise. Try again.

so i cussed yuh leader....i'm sorry for any offence i've caused....

i will keep saying i doh care either way, cos it the truth. but then i would take manning over kams (even panday over kams) since both did things of more long-term (imho) value. govt. campus, airport, highways, hospitals, exchasnge rate regime, GATE, financial centre/twin towers/hyatt, NAPA/SAPA, all are developments for long term econmic/social gain, community centres or street lights or rural bridges or playing field lights, are not. my training as an econ. development student makes me think this way, dat iz all...... but i will say (ad nauseum as you say...) BOTH parties have done sheit, and have not tackled crime or diversified the economy. Manning/Panday took basic steps in the latter, not the former, more than Kamla.

so if i cuss yuh leader, and yuh ent like it, then now yuh know why....

My leader? My leader is Jah son. You're the one with some strange and obvious hard-on for KPB. I think you actually believe that people cannot see through your very obvious "I dislike all equally" sham.

eh? doh care really....jus dat you iz UNC and cyah tek no cuss of yuh leader/she.

You are free to curse whoever you like. You are also equally free to be hypocritical if you like. You're not free however, to try to take people for fools.

[De Dragon]

can't expect class from classless people

drchaos what should we talk about at your funeral/rip thread? Serious question.

Doh worry drchaos, kamla go dead and dese same hypocrites go make ah list just like yours.