Scottish Independence Referendum

[Dizzy28]

Really surprised to have not seen his here yet (unless there is a thread I missed). This more or less is in the top three international news stories for the past week alongside ISIS and Ebola.

A referendum on whether Scotland should be an independent country will take place on Thursday, 18 September 2014.[2]

Following an agreement between the Scottish and the United Kingdom governments,[3] the Scottish independence Referendum Bill, setting out the arrangements for this referendum, was put forward on 21 March 2013,[4] passed by the Scottish Parliament on 14 November 2013 and received Royal Assent on 17 December 2013.[5][6]

The referendum question, as recommended by the Electoral Commission, will be "Should Scotland be an independent country?" – voters can answer only Yes or No.[7] With some exceptions, all residents in Scotland aged 16 or over can vote, a total of over 4 million people. To pass, the independence proposal requires a simple majority.

Yes Scotland is the main campaign group for independence, while Better Together is the main campaign group to maintain the union. Many other campaign groups, political parties, businesses, newspapers and prominent individuals have also been involved. Prominent issues raised during the campaign include which currency an independent Scotland would use, public expenditure and North Sea oil.[8]..........................http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_i ... ndum,_2014

[Slartibartfast]

Dis affecting the price of a bottle of black label?

[SMc]

tomorrow id the day. Very interesting, good debates etc.

I think the reason it has not been posted as most people dont even realise/understand what the set-up is reference Great Britain how the 3 different countries that occupy the same island are run politically and financially... and the concequence of one of those countries leaving whether it be voluntarily or not.

[Dizzy28]

And for us living in a country where there are calls in some quarters for independence for Tobago this would also have some bearing with regards to precedence in international law etc.

[maj. tom]

[shogun]

Poor Cameron left begging Scots to not succeed. Thought he had it in the bag. Referendum backfired big time.

[maj. tom]

If 51% vote yes, you have half the population still wanting to be part of the UK. Where does that put them?

Next thing they end up like Ireland. The Scottish Troubles.

[shogun]

They better hope those North Sea reserves aren't pass their prime, or they'll be swimming in red ink... if they decide to succeed that is.

[Dizzy28]

Oil and gas consultancy Wood Mackenzie calculates that 84% of the 15.3 billion barrels of oil equivalent reserves remaining in the UK lie in Scottish waters.

The Edinburgh-based firm said production in UK waters could increase by around 10% to 1.3 million barrels per day in 2018, from the current 1.17m barrels daily this year, following huge investment by oil and gas giants like BP in areas such as West of Shetland.

However, it noted: "Post 2018, decline is forecast to set in once more with production dipping below 1 million barrels of oil equivalent per day (boe/d) by 2023, less than a quarter of the 1999 peak."....................................http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/ ... 1410952597

[STORM1234]

sorry couldn't help it.

[zoom rader]

They better hope those North Sea reserves aren't pass their prime, or they'll be swimming in red ink... if they decide to succeed that is.

Nope they still got 100 years in reserves.
Most scots dont want independence, its the media thats is pushing this. I speak to scots daily and they dont want it. Once they loose UK they loose all the benefits. In england they have to pay £9000 for Uni fees where as in scots they pay less that £1000 per year once they can prove their scot roots. Once they out of UK it means they out of the EU and it protections.
There are host of other benefits that they loose out on.

[STORM1234]

They WILL vote YES and become an independent country.

[zoom rader]

They WILL vote YES and become an independent country.

How many scots have you spoken in person to come your conclusion?

[Dizzy28]

They WILL vote YES and become an independent country.

How many scots have you spoken in person to come your conclusion?

How much have you?
Was your talks representative of the demographic nature of Scotland i.e. did you speak to rich ones, poor ones, educated ones, non educated ones, white ones, Asian ones?

[zoom rader]

They WILL vote YES and become an independent country.

How many scots have you spoken in person to come your conclusion?

How much have you?
Was your talks representative of the demographic nature of Scotland i.e. did you speak to rich ones, poor ones, educated ones, non educated ones, white ones, Asian ones?

<<<<<See my Location bro, I deal with scots everyday

[Dizzy28]

They WILL vote YES and become an independent country.

How many scots have you spoken in person to come your conclusion?

How much have you?
Was your talks representative of the demographic nature of Scotland i.e. did you speak to rich ones, poor ones, educated ones, non educated ones, white ones, Asian ones?

<<<<<See my Location bro, I deal with scots everyday

I'm sure you spoke with all 4.3m Scots then.

[zoom rader]

They WILL vote YES and become an independent country.

How many scots have you spoken in person to come your conclusion?

How much have you?
Was your talks representative of the demographic nature of Scotland i.e. did you speak to rich ones, poor ones, educated ones, non educated ones, white ones, Asian ones?

<<<<<See my Location bro, I deal with scots everyday

I'm sure you spoke with all 4.3m Scots then.

No need to speak to that many, i have spoken to vast number on them on the north sea oil riggs. On these rigs you meet wide range of them from various backgrounds rich, poor, educated ones, non educated ones. Out of 100 you will get about 30 for Yes and 50 for No and the rest not voting or just dont care. Most of the rich earners are in the No range, the poor ones tend to say Yes.

[STORM1234]

The thing is though, when Scotland becomes an independent country, how will this guarantee England's subsequent removal from the E.U.?

[Dizzy28]

The thing is though, when Scotland becomes an independent country, how will this guarantee England's subsequent removal from the E.U.?

England will remain in the EU. Its Scotland who will now have to apply. Scotland will also have to apply to the UN.
The remaining country called Great Britain (England, Wales and NI) will likely be the successor for the permanent Security Council spot at the UN. This has happened before where both the USSR and Chinese spots switched. (USSR went to Russia after the Soviet dissolution and ROC (Taiwan) went to PRC)

[ilove3]

I am not sure about this but can someone help me here?

[SMc]

invalid info...ZR's possy's postal votes have yet to reach

[Dizzy28]

First of the 32 councils (Clackmannanshire ) results declared NO 53.8% YES 46.2%

[shogun]

Hmmmm.

[Tosh nut Posh]

Ralph Abercromby
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sir Ralph Abercromby KB (sometimes spelt Abercrombie) (7 October 1734 – 28 March 1801) was a Scottish soldier and politician. He rose to the rank of lieutenant-general in the British Army, was noted for his services during the Napoleonic Wars, and served as Commander-in-Chief, Ireland.

He twice served as MP for Clackmannanshire, and was appointed Governor of Trinidad.

Biography[edit]
He was the eldest son of George Abercromby of Tullibody, Clackmannanshire, and a brother of the advocate Alexander Abercromby, Lord Abercromby. He was born at Menstrie Castle, Clackmannanshire.[1] Educated at Rugby and the University of Edinburgh, in 1754 he was sent to Leipzig University to study civil law, with a view to his proceeding to a career as an advocate.

Abercromby was a Freemason. He was a member of Canongate Kilwinning Lodge No 2, Edinburgh, Scotland [2]


Invasion of Trinidad (1797)

On February 18, 1797, a fleet of 18 warships under the command of Sir Ralph Abercromby invaded and took the Island of Trinidad. Within a few of days the last Spanish Governor, Don José María Chacón surrendered the island to Abercromby.

Background[edit]
Spain, previously an ally of Great Britain, had been defeated in the War of the Pyrenees against France in 1795 and forced to sign the Peace of Basel. An alliance convention between France and Spain was signed the following year in 1796. British forces in the Caribbean in 1796 had already taken French colonies such as Saint Lucia and later Dutch colonies in South America; Demerara and Essequibo. With the Spanish now at war with Great Britain, Ralph Abercromby thought it was right to necessarily render Spain's colonies an immediate object of attack. His first target was the Spanish island of Trinidad which being close proximity to Tobago which had been captured early in the war. The island had been Spanish since the third voyage of Christopher Columbus in 1498 & since Spanish missions had been established on the island.

Landing[edit]
On the 12th of February, an expedition, composed of four sail of the line, two sloops and a bomb-vessel, under the command of Rear-Admiral Henry Harvey, in Prince of Wales, having on board his ship Lieutenant-general Sir Ralph Abercromby, as the commanding officer of the troops to be employed, quit Port-Royal, Martinique. On the 14th the rear-admiral arrived at the port of rendezvous, the island of Carriacou, and was there joined by another sail of the line, the 74-gun third-rate (Invincible), two frigates, three sloops, and several transports, containing the troops destined for the attack.

On the 15th the squadron and transports again set sail, running between the islands of Carriacou and Grenada. On the morning of the next day the whole flotilla arrived off Trinidad and steered for the Gulf of Paria. Just as the British squadron had passed through the Great Bocas channel, a Spanish squadron was discovered at anchor in Chaguaramus Bay, consisting of the following four sail of the line and one frigate: San Vincente (Captain Don Geronimo Mendoza; 84 guns), Gallardo (Captain Don Gabriel Sororido; 74 guns), Arrogante (Captain Don Raphael Benasa; 74 guns), San Damaso (Don Tores Jordan; 74 guns), and Santa Cecilia (Captain Don Manuel Urtesabel; 36 guns), all under the command of Rear-Admiral Don Sebastian Ruiz de Apodaca.

The apparent strength of the battery on Gaspar Grande island, which, mounting 20 cannon and two mortars, commanded and might have disputed, the entrance to the enemy's anchorage, caused Hardy to order the transports, under the protection of Arethusa, Thorn, and Zebra, to anchor a little further up the gulf, at the distance of about five miles from the town of Port-d'Espagne, while Alarm, Favourite, and Victorieuse kept under sail between the transports and Port-d'Espagne, to prevent any vessels escaping from the latter.[Note 1] In the mean time, the rear-admiral, with his four sail of the line, anchored, in order of battle, within random-shot of the Spanish batteries and line-of-battle ships, to be prepared in case the ships, having all their sails set and appearing to be ready for sea, should attempt during the night to escape.

The British began to observe flames bursting out from one of the Spanish ships. In a short time three others were on fire and all four continued to burn with great fury until daylight. The Spanish had set the ships on fire as most the marines & seamen were ashore. The San-Damaso escaped the conflagration and, without any resistance, was brought off by the boats of the British squadron.[6] The Spaniards meanwhile, had abandoned Gaspar Grande and soon after daylight a detachment of the 14th Regiment of Foot occupied the island. In the course of the day the remainder of the troops landed about three miles from Port of Spain, without the slightest opposition, and on the same evening, quietly entered the town itself. This led to the Spanish governor José María Chacón offering to capitulate; on the following day, the island of Trinidad surrendered to the British arms, without an effort at defence and without any casualties.[6] The next year the British invasion force shared in the allocation of £40,000 for the proceeds of the ships taken at Trinidad and of the property found on the island.[7]

Aftermath[edit]

1897 medallion commemorating the centenary of the capture of Trinidad
Trinidad became a British crown colony, with a French-speaking population and Spanish laws. The conquest and formal ceding of Trinidad in 1802 led to an influx of settlers from England or the British colonies of the Eastern Caribbean. The sparse settlement and slow rate of population increase during Spanish rule and even after British rule made Trinidad one of the less populated colonies of the West Indies with the least developed plantation infrastructure.[8]

[zoom rader]

Well there you have it folks the NO vote won as I predicted . The Scots stay in the Union.

It was mostly the media that was spending the YES vote.

Time to get rid of Tobago

[janfar]

Lol... Watching all my Scottish friends beat up on FB even though most of them don't pay taxes there or for the most part don't even reside there anymore.

[zoom rader]

Lol... Watching all my Scottish friends beat up on FB even though most of them don't pay taxes there or for the most part don't even reside there anymore.

There are 5 million scots that live in scotland, but 18 milion that live worldwide. The worldwide ones were pushing for independence.

[cornfused]

Interesting a small margin on such a pivotal issue . However where is this on out political and governance landscape .

We say we don't wand courts , schools , roads building in specific areas . A few persons talk out on the gas subsidy.Where are the referendums for us to decide what we want ?

[Slartibartfast]

[shogun]

Interesting a small margin on such a pivotal issue . However where is this on out political and governance landscape .

We say we don't wand courts , schools , roads building in specific areas . A few persons talk out on the gas subsidy.Where are the referendums for us to decide what we want ?

Our politicians were "clever" enough to realize that tribalism and tribal politics was the key to keep us occupied enough to not worry/care about more important issues. It worked. Both sides can now do as they please.

The majority of our population isn't sophisticated enough to look at issues without looking through the prism of race/political affiliation. Not yet anyways... and the politicians couldn't have asked for a better situation.