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T&T's debt to China stands at...

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The_Honourable
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T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby The_Honourable » March 2nd, 2018, 10:33 pm

Trinidad and Tobago currently owes the People's Republic of China TT$2.229 billion dollars, according to Minister of Finance Colm Imbert.

The debt is in the form of loans and financing facilities as at January 31st, 2018.

The debt includes the construction of the National Academy for the Performing Arts and Southern Academy for the Performing Arts. The outstanding debts from loans for the two are $440,295,212 and $180,835,533 respectively.

The debt own on a loan for the construction of the Couva Hospital currently stands at $924,511,500.

The government is also owing on a finance facility that allowed for the construction of six sporting facilities. That debt currently stands at $545,157,619.

Then there is a debt for the purchase of a multi-purpose patrol vessel based on a credit facility, amounting to $138,609,487.

That brings the figure to $2.229 billion.

However, the Minister told the Parliament that all these figures do not include arrears.

Among the arrears is a claim by left by the former administration for canceling the aluminum project, which amounts to US$201 million (TT$1.4 billion).

That issue is currently before the courts.

Source: http://www.cnc3.co.tt/press-release/tt- ... loan-debts

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby sMASH » March 2nd, 2018, 10:40 pm

half is the childrens hospital and the other half is napa, sapa, papa, tapa, and some stadiums...

tell me, which is more important for the people?

how the arse one vessel could cost 138 million dollars? a vessel!!! is it forged titanium with platinum fixtures and diamond windows, silk linens?

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby paid_influencer » March 2nd, 2018, 10:58 pm

brace allyuh self.

forget who took loans for what.

the important part is that all these debts have to be paid for.

it not going to be easy for the average man to bear these debts. debate politics all you want, but realize is hell to come for all ah we in the next few years

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Gladiator » March 2nd, 2018, 11:04 pm

That debt is actually small compared to what other countries owe China... I mean 2.5bil is only a little over 4% of the annual budget. That is no big deal... Nothing to panic about

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby streetbeastINC. » March 2nd, 2018, 11:05 pm

Chinas great plan....

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby antlind » March 3rd, 2018, 1:02 am

Gladiator wrote:That debt is actually small compared to what other countries owe China... I mean 2.5bil is only a little over 4% of the annual budget. That is no big deal... Nothing to panic about


A more significant concern is the interest rate applied to these debts. Under the current economic climate it could take TT many years to fully pay off this debt to China. Again we see mismanagement of taxpayers money regardless of the administration. What TT badly needs is an alternative to the PNM and UNC.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Rovin » March 3rd, 2018, 11:57 am

antlind wrote:
Gladiator wrote:That debt is actually small compared to what other countries owe China... I mean 2.5bil is only a little over 4% of the annual budget. That is no big deal... Nothing to panic about


A more significant concern is the interest rate applied to these debts. Under the current economic climate it could take TT many years to fully pay off this debt to China. Again we see mismanagement of taxpayers money regardless of the administration. What TT badly needs is an alternative to the PNM and UNC.



well there is another party out https://www.facebook.com/peptrinbago/

but u know trinis love d pnm\unc til dey dead ..... :|

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Les Bain » March 3rd, 2018, 12:46 pm

So in layman terms we owe China 2.3 billion for a list of things that are no longer used, have never been used, or hardly ever used?

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby rspann » March 3rd, 2018, 1:09 pm

Every time colon want to talk about property tax and raising taxes , he prefaces it with how much debt we in and how much trouble Kamla put us in.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby urbandilema » March 3rd, 2018, 9:05 pm

rspann wrote:Every time colon want to talk about property tax and raising taxes , he prefaces it with how much debt we in and how much trouble Kamla put us in.
Lol colon I like that one
FB_IMG_1520111727181.jpg

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby sMASH » March 4th, 2018, 2:57 pm

Les Bain wrote:So in layman terms we owe China 2.3 billion for a list of things that are no longer used, have never been used, or hardly ever used?
The only one that might actually be of worth is the hospital.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Ben_spanna » March 4th, 2018, 10:24 pm

Yadda yadda yadda ,,, and there's a Chinese construction company that's supposedly partially owned by the Chinese government that's currently owning local companies millions , and they refuse to pay or acknowledge that they owe monies. To hell with China and whatever debt we owe them. The Caribbean as a whole needs to take. Stand against China and set them straight...play fair or go to hell back to China.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby boxy » March 5th, 2018, 3:19 am

urbandilema wrote:
rspann wrote:Every time colon want to talk about property tax and raising taxes , he prefaces it with how much debt we in and how much trouble Kamla put us in.
Lol colon I like that one
FB_IMG_1520111727181.jpg
didn't realize memes were actually fact based now

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby urbandilema » March 5th, 2018, 3:07 pm

boxy wrote:
urbandilema wrote:
rspann wrote:Every time colon want to talk about property tax and raising taxes , he prefaces it with how much debt we in and how much trouble Kamla put us in.
Lol colon I like that one
FB_IMG_1520117999367.jpg
didn't realize memes were actually fact based now
Here is another it's my new hobby...collecting em
FB_IMG_1520117999367.jpg

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby boxy » March 5th, 2018, 4:34 pm

k cool.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby zoom rader » March 7th, 2018, 8:15 am

Years ago I warned you all on China. It's only in trinidad this happening. China just brought Jamacia and Guyana

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby xtech » March 7th, 2018, 8:27 am

http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/05/news/ec ... index.html

China's global trade plan is piling huge debt on smaller nations

By Sherisse Pham March 5, 2018

Big loans from China can come with big headaches.
A new report says China's massive plan to pump hundreds of billions of dollars into ports, rail lines and other projects across Asia, Europe and Africa could pile debt problems onto smaller countries.
Loans from China's Belt and Road Initiative "will significantly add to the risk of debt distress" for eight countries, including Pakistan, Montenegro and Djibouti, according to a report published Sunday by the Center for Global Development, a US-based nonprofit think tank.

Pakistan is "by far the largest country at high risk," the center says. Its report estimates China is financing about $50 billion worth of infrastructure and energy projects in Pakistan.

"Adding to Pakistan's risk of debt distress are the relatively high interest rates being charged by China," it warned.
The authors also attempted to estimate the growing indebtedness to China of the other seven countries, although they caution that China doesn't report its foreign lending "in a systematic or transparent manner."
In Djibouti, 82% of the country's external debt was owned by China at the end of 2016, according to the report.
In Kyrgyzstan, the authors estimate China's share of the country's debt could spike from 37% at the end of 2016 to 71% in the coming years, based on the Belt and Road projects it has in the pipeline.

The other nations singled out by the report as vulnerable are Laos, the Maldives, Mongolia and Tajikistan.
If any of them run into problems managing their debts, one concern is that China will be in a strong position to influence their strategic decisions or even gain control of important infrastructure.
Related: India boycotts China's global trade jamboree
In 2011, China reportedly agreed to write off debt in Tajikistan in exchange for disputed territory, according to the study. Last year, Beijing worked out an agreement with Sri Lanka over an $8 billion loan, securing a 99-year lease for a newly built port.
China deals with lending problems on a case by case basis rather than following widely accepted "rules of the road" set out by the International Monetary Fund or the World Bank, according to the report.
Instead of spurring growth and economic opportunity, China could be pushing a project that "introduces new debt vulnerabilities in developing countries and risks growth setbacks," the authors wrote.
They suggest other countries and organizations like the World Bank should encourage China to embrace more sustainable lending practices and avoid the dangers of acting as a "go-it-alone" creditor

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Ben_spanna » March 7th, 2018, 9:01 am

China is doing its homework, and are Slowly entering into countries that they know will get into financial trouble, they are offering their "sincere investment" and then they sit and wait till the country cannot pay and BOOM- they OWN your arse! they will soon have control over the CAricom region if this continues and when that happens kiss all local businesses goodbye!
Caribbean countries should try to help each other and tell China No thank you! But then again Greed is................ oh never mind

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Redman » March 7th, 2018, 9:19 am

Just a different way to exchange worthless paper currency for hard assets in geographically diverse but possibly strategic locations and commodity reserves.

nothing to see here.
this is a continue of an over 30 year old policy.
They using debt....the US used(uses) guns and coke/heroin.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Dizzy28 » March 7th, 2018, 9:22 am

China's imperialistic ambitions are much more subtle than the Americans..........................for now.
One does not build up their military levels to that of the Chinese (the current Plenary approved a trillion Yuan military budget) just to sit back and watch the world burn.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby cryotec » March 7th, 2018, 10:24 am

Maybe China wants our port for the one belt one road initiative.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Dizzy28 » March 8th, 2018, 9:03 am

cryotec wrote:Maybe China wants our port for the one belt one road initiative.


China can come at anytime and build a deepwater port if they want too.
The La Brea transshipment port project was out for EOI so much years ago under the PP and the Chinese must have known about it given their construction presence here.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby toyolink » March 8th, 2018, 10:14 am

In todays global power matrix, China has become the real financial and economic leader.
Economic and financial sustainability of super-powers are always dependent on expansionist dispositions.
How China got here is no magic, the size of the country, the availability of human capital and other resources aggressively mobilized in a totalitarian culture facilitated a grow rate which caught the known capitalist leaders with their 'pants down'.
China has the wealth and if countries need money they know where to go, but nothing comes without a cost.
Even the great USA has found itself having levels of debt to Chinese interests which is quite staggering.
Another country to keep an eye on is India and if they could bring all their people on the 'same page' the rest would be history.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Dizzy28 » March 8th, 2018, 10:35 am

toyolink wrote:In todays global power matrix, China has become the real financial and economic leader.
Economic and financial sustainability of super-powers are always dependent on expansionist dispositions.
How China got here is no magic, the size of the country, the availability of human capital and other resources aggressively mobilized in a totalitarian culture facilitated a grow rate which caught the known capitalist leaders with their 'pants down'.
China has the wealth and if countries need money they know where to go, but nothing comes without a cost.
Even the great USA has found itself having levels of debt to Chinese interests which is quite staggering.
Another country to keep an eye on is India and if they could bring all their people on the 'same page' the rest would be history.


India will reach a level just below global superpower but because of its own internal issues remain there
Unlike China they are not anywhere close to being homogeneous ethnically ( You have Marathis, Punjabis, Tamils, Bengalis etc each with their own language and culture).
Then the democratic system in place makes it more difficult to get infrastructure and investment projects approved unlike the one party (no democracy) system in China.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby sMASH » March 10th, 2018, 8:23 am

And papa and tapa?

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Eagle View Enterprises » March 10th, 2018, 10:45 am

China is not a homogeneous population. Autocratic rule? Yes

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Eagle View Enterprises » March 10th, 2018, 10:47 am

The major minority ethnic groups in China are Zhuang (16.9 million), Hui (10.5 million), Manchu (10.3 million), Uyghur (10 million), Miao (9.4 million), Yi (8.7 million), Tujia (8.3 million), Tibetan (6.2 million), Mongol (5.9 million), Dong (2.8 million), Buyei (2.8 million), Yao (2.7 million), Bai (1.9 million), Korean (1.8 million), Hani (1.6 million), Li (1.4 million), Kazakh (1.4 million), and Dai (1.2 million).

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Redman » March 10th, 2018, 12:05 pm

Dizzy28 wrote:China's imperialistic ambitions are much more subtle than the Americans..........................for now.
One does not build up their military levels to that of the Chinese (the current Plenary approved a trillion Yuan military budget) just to sit back and watch the world burn.


Of course one does.
If one has 1,000,000,000 people...a strong and large military is about projecting power within as much as it about projecting it outward.

Peace is more lucrative than war.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Dizzy28 » March 10th, 2018, 12:16 pm

Eagle View Enterprises wrote:China is not a homogeneous population. Autocratic rule? Yes
No country is truly homogenous because of migration. However with 92% Han Chinese China falls within homogenous definitions.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby The_Honourable » June 4th, 2019, 11:47 am

CHINA'S MAJOR PUSH INTO TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO'S CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY

How China’s latest push into T&T's construction industry is part of a longer-term strategy.

Image

In what has been described as a “defining moment,” the Trinidad and Tobago Housing Development Corporation (HDC) signed a US$ 72 million-dollar agreement with China Gezhouba Group International Engineering Limited (CGGC) to finance and build 5000 middle income housing units across the country.

With the TT$221 million-dollar Curepe interchange being built by China Railway Construction Corporation and the award of a TT$1 Billion-dollar upgrade to the Port of Spain General hospital to Shang­hai Con­struc­tion, the Government of Trinidad and Tobago is making it known that they are more than willing to tap into China’s massive Belt and Road Initiative.

China’s growing influence within Trinidad and Tobago’s construction industry is nothing unique to this country. As part of its initiative to redefine the global value chain, the Chinese government has actively encouraged Chinese contractors to compete for overseas contracts. A primary lever for its growing influence is the ability for these Chinese contractors to tap into facilities offered by the Export Import Bank of China (CEXIM) and China Development Bank (CDB). With the applications for these contracts being further enhanced by the support from both the Chinese government and its respective foreign dignitaries. With lending rates as low as 2 per cent - 3 per cent plus additional credit and logistical support, Chinese contractors can potentially underbid mostly any competitive tendering process.

In 2017, total foreign direct outflows from China amounted to US$158 billion dollars, accounting for over 10% of the global direct investment. Latin America and the Caribbean have been major recipients of Chinese FDI outflows averaging $10.3 billion per year, for the last 7 years. Trinidad and Tobago has been able to tap into these outflows through strengthening its ties with the People’s Republic of China. These relationships have enabled the local government (both past and present) to effectively widen their sources of financing. And why shouldn’t they? Especially when the lending party is willing engage in project financing well below global market rates with an arguably relaxed due diligence process. The attractiveness of these infrastructure and investment packages are specifically manufactured to target frontier economies. These packages are ergonomically designed to meet the financial mandates for any government under-going fiscal expansion or contraction.

Open ended loans, flexible lending rates , G2G agreements and public private partnerships, are among the arsenal of economic tools that China uses to enhance the flexibility of its FDI packages. For instance, under the People’s Partnership government, borrowings from Chinese banks peaked at approximately 10 per cent of total external borrowings in 2013. Alternatively, limited by financial constraints, the current PNM administration has shifted to Public Private Partnerships (PPP) with Chinese state-owned agencies rather than further increasing the country's external debt burden.

Image
Source: Ministry of Finance, Auditor General Reports.

The Timetric’s Infrastructure Intelligence Center (IIC) estimated that as at the end of 2017, 31 per cent ($17.1 trillion) of the total global infrastructure projects are Chinese sponsored, with 16 per cent of the total global projects involving Chinese contractors. This tectonic shift in infrastructure and investment policies from China has occurred within the last decade. Between 2009 to early 2019, Chinese contractors and advisors have aggressively lobbied the GROTT, to engage in their services. With over USD$2 billion dollars being spent on high profile social development projects.

Image
Source: Various reports and Parliamentary Committees, Estimated Values are not a representation of the final amounts spent.
* For the Aquatic, Tennis and Cycle Center - total allocation equals $900,000,000.
** UWI South Campus project - contractor was terminated only received estimated sum.


The willingness of the T&T government to entertain the services of Chinese contractors have further been exacerbated since the decline in both its local energy output and global energy prices. In the face of declining revenues and higher borrowing costs, the government has been forced to use these services to prevent investment stagnation. Over the last decade annual Capital Expenditures by the T&T government have declined by 58 per cent in total dollar value.

Image
Source: Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago

Given the reduction in expenditures and the appeal of using Chinese contractors, this has left local contractors in an untenable situation especially for those reliant on government contracts.

One can argue that the introduction of Chinese contractors into a bidding process can effectively reduce the burden on taxpayers given the added competitive pressures. Opponents to China’s inclusion cited that such a situation comes at the expense to local businesses and a country’s economic security. China’s G2G or B2G agreements are heavily skewed to its favor, with applicants required to use a varied amount of Chinese content and capital in their local infrastructure projects. Opponents further highlight the possibility of a country falling into China’s “debt trap” and added that while China’s inclusion into bidding process does drive prices down, it has a high possibility of increasing corruption in frontier economies.

In Trinidad and Tobago’s case, China will continue to be a strategic partner and lender . This relationship has not hinted at slowing down in the near future as Trinidad and Tobago has a unique appeal to China when compared to its CARICOM partners. T&T’s energy resources and geographical position makes it an ideal location for trade and investment, which China recognizes. With both the European Union and the United States expanding their criteria and stringency on outward FDI programs, China is more than happy to liberalise its own global FDI policy. Trinidad and Tobago’s policy makers should note that while China is keenly pursing this relationship there are social expenses and should actively scrutinize all Chinese FDI inflows in a transparent and financially prudent manner to keep public suspicion at bay.

Source: https://valuecritic.com/china-construct ... dad-tobago

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