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alfa
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Re: Water pump

Postby alfa » November 25th, 2022, 6:58 pm

Phone Surgeon wrote:Make sure all your plumbing good and could hand le that

Plenty of the plumbing by me old and in the concrete.

I set my pump for 30/60 psi

Over that was leaks and blowouts

I'm not sure if thre's anyway to adjust pressure on the smarthead but with my pressure switch setup 30/50 works great

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maj. tom
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Re: Water pump

Postby maj. tom » November 25th, 2022, 7:01 pm

ok I trying to read the controller manual here and it says there is a screw at the back to turn to adjust the starting "trip on" pressure. But it also says the operating pressure is dependant on the pump features itself (whatever hp?) and it's easier to just close the outlet valve connection for lower flow.

It's programmed in the factory and should not need adjusting.

I hope the kitchen pipe eh buss in the night while I sleeping nah.

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Re: Water pump

Postby Chimera » November 25th, 2022, 9:09 pm

alfa wrote:
Phone Surgeon wrote:Make sure all your plumbing good and could hand le that

Plenty of the plumbing by me old and in the concrete.

I set my pump for 30/60 psi

Over that was leaks and blowouts

I'm not sure if thre's anyway to adjust pressure on the smarthead but with my pressure switch setup 30/50 works great
The original smart head that u get free with pumps I don't think they can be adjusted.

The new ones they sell for 600 can be adjusted i believe.

I could be wrong tho.

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Re: Water pump

Postby VexXx Dogg » November 25th, 2022, 9:26 pm

smart head no adjustment.
had a couple surprises at 5bar/75psi
same here. Old pipes, 50 year old house. :/
not fun at all chasing those bogeys.

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Re: Water pump

Postby VexXx Dogg » November 25th, 2022, 9:27 pm

* I turn off the pump at night when everyone sleeping.

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Re: Water pump

Postby maj. tom » December 10th, 2022, 6:36 am

Phone Surgeon wrote:learn something new everyday yes

more than 3 years now i get chain up to buy a 1hp pump instead of a 3/4 hp or 1/2hp because it was only $200 difference

with smart head..so psi not adjustable

installation was at 2 story business place so i say...yeah that good

well that mc thing start to blow out pipe left right and center

i install a gate valve and have it open halfway thinking it would help...it help a lil bit

only this week the pump shop telling me about a pressure reducing valve that adjustable and does adjust PSI from 200 psi all the way down to 1 psi

does adjust with allen key

he say people mostly use it where they get very high wasa pressure and need to regulate it before it go into their homes


Is it this? Looks expensive, but obviously worth it. You got one?

https://www.watts.com/resources/references-tools/water-pressure-reducing-valves


Image
Image


But why not change out the pump and buy a 1/2-hp, you can use the 1-hp in the garden or hook it up in separate parallel line to use when gas engine pressure washing or something.

Depends on the use, one of the Chinese brands will be good enough for the house so you wouldn't have to spend big.


And one more thing I learned from a pump dealer this week as we were talking: the smart head fails with many people because of blowback pressure from the house when the pump switches off that makes the gauge go into the red. Yes the head can handle water hammer, but he said to always put a one-way check valve on the output to stop any water pressure blow back spikes that can happen, plus put it on a voltage regulator plug to avoid spikes that will damage the electronics.

I copying this into the pump thread for better reference.

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Re: Water pump

Postby alfa » December 10th, 2022, 6:56 am

Phone Surgeon wrote:learn something new everyday yes

more than 3 years now i get chain up to buy a 1hp pump instead of a 3/4 hp or 1/2hp because it was only $200 difference

with smart head..so psi not adjustable

installation was at 2 story business place so i say...yeah that good

well that mc thing start to blow out pipe left right and center

i install a gate valve and have it open halfway thinking it would help...it help a lil bit

only this week the pump shop telling me about a pressure reducing valve that adjustable and does adjust PSI from 200 psi all the way down to 1 psi

does adjust with allen key

he say people mostly use it where they get very high wasa pressure and need to regulate it before it go into their homes



Wrt the high pressure the gate valve you installed was it on the suction side? That will have a much better effect than on the discharge. We do it in the industries all the time. Could also install a bypass bleeder valve on the discharge to feed back a fraction of the output back to the suction

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Re: Water pump

Postby pugboy » December 10th, 2022, 7:04 am

never heard of smarthead over running and allowing too much pressure
but i guess with all of them failing it is a possibility
smart heads are indeed crap and dangerous if they can allow over pressure, they usually just fail dead
best to use pressure switch with pressure tank

those watts reducing valves are the most common type and work well
almost everybody in marshal using them in wasa intake to house

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Re: Water pump

Postby pugboy » December 10th, 2022, 7:05 am

trying to reduce pressure by just opening a lockoff valve slightly onky works when water is being used, otherwise it will equalize and still over pressure when static

alfa wrote:
Phone Surgeon wrote:learn something new everyday yes

more than 3 years now i get chain up to buy a 1hp pump instead of a 3/4 hp or 1/2hp because it was only $200 difference

with smart head..so psi not adjustable

installation was at 2 story business place so i say...yeah that good

well that mc thing start to blow out pipe left right and center

i install a gate valve and have it open halfway thinking it would help...it help a lil bit

only this week the pump shop telling me about a pressure reducing valve that adjustable and does adjust PSI from 200 psi all the way down to 1 psi

does adjust with allen key

he say people mostly use it where they get very high wasa pressure and need to regulate it before it go into their homes



Wrt the high pressure the gate valve you installed was it on the suction side? That will have a much better effect than on the discharge. We do it in the industries all the time. Could also install a bypass bleeder valve on the discharge to feed back a fraction of the output back to the suction

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Re: Water pump

Postby maj. tom » December 10th, 2022, 10:06 am

Why Pump Controllers Fail

The single most common reason a pump controller fails is due to a build-up of ‘muck’ in the internals of the controller.

Typically, tank water collected off a roof catchment contains bacteria which with the addition of summer heat can develop bacterial growth. This not only smells but can coat the flow detector plate and pressure detector with a thick coating of gunk. When this happens it reduces the sensitivity and reliability of the device. This often happens after a period of no use such as when a home owner has been away on holiday, and is most common in the warmer months of the year.

The simple way to prevent your controller failing is to have it serviced regularly by a qualified service technician. Servicing includes a thorough clean out of both the pump and the controller.
************************

Another common cause of pump failure is damage from voltage spikes and surges. The majority of pump controllers don’t have built-in protection, so using a surge protector device is the only way to reduce this risk.

https://www.paslr.co.nz/technical-pumps/why-pump-controllers-fail/



How to troubleshoot a water pump control system?
https://youtu.be/lZrYoacbQMg?t=74

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Re: Water pump

Postby Chimera » December 10th, 2022, 10:12 am

On amazon you see something similar under "RV water pressure controller"
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20221210_100338.jpg

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Re: Water pump

Postby maj. tom » December 10th, 2022, 10:36 am

Phone Surgeon wrote:I feel i hadda get some voltage regulators. I never put that on any pump in my life


Bhagwansingh's have them at a good price compared to many other places. Look for 120V/ 10A or 12A, but don't exceed double current what the pump pulls. If your pump is wired for 220V well those more expensive.

I using the black 12A single plug regulator in the middle ($180) for the pump which pulling 7.4A and the controller head configured and wired to control single phase 10A. The controller head user manual fine print also says to use a 30mA trip GFCI outlet because the plug is near a water source.

Image

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Re: Water pump

Postby Chimera » December 10th, 2022, 11:09 am

bhagwansingh cheaper than places like modern electrical and boodoos?
the only thing bhagwansingh does sell cheap is pvc fittings and steel

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Re: Water pump

Postby maj. tom » December 10th, 2022, 11:20 am

welll..... i guess not. I was there buying the pump so i had picked this up one time, rather than making a next run in that traffic for a plug. Check Modern Electrical they bound to have it cheaper.

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Re: Water pump

Postby Dave » December 10th, 2022, 1:15 pm

Not steel either.
On a big scale they are not.
Phone Surgeon wrote:bhagwansingh cheaper than places like modern electrical and boodoos?
the only thing bhagwansingh does sell cheap is pvc fittings and steel

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Re: Water pump

Postby pugboy » December 10th, 2022, 1:31 pm

make sure and install the pressure regulator in place easy to access and with unions so you can just swap it out
and if you feeling fancy install a bypass so you can lock it off and have wasa feeding house in case it need servicing
also install pressure gauges before and after so you can see the difference
the cheaper ones sometimes wear out on the valve seat

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Re: Water pump

Postby Chimera » December 10th, 2022, 2:47 pm

Dave wrote:Not steel either.
On a big scale they are not.
Phone Surgeon wrote:bhagwansingh cheaper than places like modern electrical and boodoos?
the only thing bhagwansingh does sell cheap is pvc fittings and steel
Idk i find bhags does have a consistent high quality steel

Have plenty ppl importing lower grade sheit and selling cheaper

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Re: Water pump

Postby Chimera » December 10th, 2022, 3:34 pm

pugboy wrote:make sure and install the pressure regulator in place easy to access and with unions so you can just swap it out
and if you feeling fancy install a bypass so you can lock it off and have wasa feeding house in case it need servicing
also install pressure gauges before and after so you can see the difference
the cheaper ones sometimes wear out on the valve seat


this one was 400 and the quality looking and feeling bess
i putting it after a 1hp pump to dampen the pressure

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Re: Water pump

Postby pugboy » December 10th, 2022, 3:49 pm

a better thing to use would be a cycle stop valve
you put it after pump as well and it regulates the pressure once there is demand
it will actually keep pump on longer but under less load and burn less current instead of constant stop starts esp in high usage location

rotopkastics sells them

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Re: Water pump

Postby Chimera » December 10th, 2022, 3:57 pm

pugboy wrote:a better thing to use would be a cycle stop valve
you put it after pump as well and it regulates the pressure once there is demand
it will actually keep pump on longer but under less load and burn less current instead of constant stop starts esp in high usage location

rotopkastics sells them


my issue is that the plumbing in the building old and need changing

not able to do that right now so rather the pressure be regulated to a lil 45-50 psi

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Re: Water pump

Postby Chimera » December 10th, 2022, 3:58 pm

the worst thing in life is them smart head though

never me again and that
never. i really make a mistake buying a new pump last week with smart switch for a place

a pressure switch and pressure tank is the best

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Re: Water pump

Postby pugboy » December 10th, 2022, 4:04 pm

the only issue with that small regulator may be how much gpm it allows
if somebody else taking a shower you may reach a bottle neck in gpm allowed thru it to hose the yard or such

yeah a high power pump with smart head is a bad idea since the high pressure surge can be a problem whilst the smarthead still trying to figure out if to shut off or not

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Re: Water pump

Postby cornfused » December 10th, 2022, 10:33 pm

Installed a 1 HP Pentax with 23.5 gallon tank. We will see how that goes, bought and assembled at the WaterSource. The Pump is assembled on the tank

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Re: Water pump

Postby pjfred » December 10th, 2022, 11:04 pm

Phone Surgeon wrote:the worst thing in life is them smart head though

never me again and that
never. i really make a mistake buying a new pump last week with smart switch for a place

a pressure switch and pressure tank is the best
Mines running fine 3 years now

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Re: Water pump

Postby pugboy » December 11th, 2022, 4:37 am

That is a big tank to be mounted direct on pump

cornfused wrote:Installed a 1 HP Pentax with 23.5 gallon tank. We will see how that goes, bought and assembled at the WaterSource. The Pump is assembled on the tank

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Re: Water pump

Postby cornfused » December 11th, 2022, 9:52 am

Pump is assembled on the Tank Pug. Not the normal Tank above or to the side of the pump

Yes its a big tank but for the life of me I don't know why the avg plumber, hardware or home owner subscribes to 2 Gallon Tank. The minimum for an avg household should be any where from 4 to 13 gallons depending on users.

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Re: Water pump

Postby pugboy » December 11th, 2022, 10:01 am

thats where a cycle stop valve starts to make more sense since pressure tank prices go up exponentially with size

for more users in a heavy property, its better to have a smaller tank and a cycle stop valve than spend a lot of money on big pressure tank .

a cycle stop valve will act like a pressure reducer but allows high volumes to pass and keeps pump spinning but throttled a bit
saves current and wear and tear, but it does it mechanically and acts as a soft start too
a smarthead does similar but electronically, also inverter aircons do same as well.

https://cyclestopvalves.com/pages/basic ... stop-valve

cornfused wrote:Pump is assembled on the Tank Pug. Not the normal Tank above or to the side of the pump

Yes its a big tank but for the life of me I don't know why the avg plumber, hardware or home owner subscribes to 2 Gallon Tank. The minimum for an avg household should be any where from 4 to 13 gallons depending on users.

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Re: Water pump

Postby Chimera » December 11th, 2022, 12:47 pm

So the stop cycle valve better than the pressure regulator?

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Re: Water pump

Postby pugboy » December 11th, 2022, 1:22 pm

its purpose is to reduce too much on/off cycling of the pump which it does
by throttling back the output of the pump(ie regulating) once water is being used
once demand is off, then it slowly allows pressure to build up in the pressure tank and then the pump's pressure switch will switch off the pump
its mode of operation happens to act as a soft start as well

its a really ingenious device and all mechanical, nothing electrical to fail like a smarthead.

Phone Surgeon wrote:So the stop cycle valve better than the pressure regulator?

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Re: Water pump

Postby cornfused » December 12th, 2022, 1:52 pm

Everyone has their preferred method to limit pump wear and tear.

A certified WASA / Pro Plumber told me that the Pressure Tank is the method to preserve the pump. My own technician Mulitiskilled Workman is also of that view.

CSVs are used in the American market and slowly being adopted here.

We need a better source of quality pressure tanks here

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