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teems1 wrote:You have to look at the likely outcomes.
It's not like if we open our borders, thousands from New Zealand or Vietnam (who have it under control) will be coming home.
It will mostly be people from the US, who will be flying back.
400k holders of TT passports live abroad, with 250k in the US, and 150k in NYC area.
Yesterday the US had 230k new cases. Today they are on track for another 200k.
I'm sure Trinidad wants to open the borders, but their piss poor management of it in has caused the GoRTT to make these hard decisions.
paid_influencer wrote:lemme say this - we is a small island and it is extremely easy for our health care facilities to become overwhelmed in the way Europe was in March and happening again because of the new strain. The PNM, for all their faults, has put the health of those on the island first and rightly so.
I went through your list and see no reason for an exemption. These things tug at the heart strings, but the travel they want can bring the new strain here and collapse our healthcare and kill people. At some point better sense has to prevail.
We have things coming on the horizon - vaccines, therapeutics - that won't remove the virus but at least make it manageable. Maybe we can wait a few more months for most of the doctors and nurses to be vaccinated at least - before going down that path.
What I would like to see immediately is more transparency on who gets border exemptions and the criteria. At least some reporting on a publicly accessible database with name, address, arrival date, and when they applied. Maybe even GPS tracking as one member suggested (and he was following this from the start). Yes, privacy is important, but not when it is a matter of health in the midst of a pandemic.
MaxPower wrote:Friends,
Whether borders are open or closed,
Locked down or not,
PNM or UNC,
Trini or Vene,
Responsibility is the determining factor.
Dohplaydat wrote:teems1 wrote:You have to look at the likely outcomes.
It's not like if we open our borders, thousands from New Zealand or Vietnam (who have it under control) will be coming home.
It will mostly be people from the US, who will be flying back.
400k holders of TT passports live abroad, with 250k in the US, and 150k in NYC area.
Yesterday the US had 230k new cases. Today they are on track for another 200k.
I'm sure Trinidad wants to open the borders, but their piss poor management of it in has caused the GoRTT to make these hard decisions.
I honestly don't think they want too, but your last point is correct, piss poor management is the likely reason, which represents the admission of failure.
Just throwing this out there....what is the criteria for opening borders?
The new strains of Covid will become the most dominant, and there are always dangers of it mutating further.
Can we simply not try to get our quarantine procedure and facilities right?
teems1 wrote:You have to look at the likely outcomes.
It's not like if we open our borders, thousands from New Zealand or Vietnam (who have it under control) will be coming home.
It will mostly be people from the US, who will be flying back.
400k holders of TT passports live abroad, with 250k in the US, and 150k in NYC area.
Yesterday the US had 230k new cases. Today they are on track for another 200k.
I'm sure Trinidad wants to open the borders, but their piss poor management of it in has caused the GoRTT to make these hard decisions.
Devourment wrote:teems1 wrote:You have to look at the likely outcomes.
It's not like if we open our borders, thousands from New Zealand or Vietnam (who have it under control) will be coming home.
It will mostly be people from the US, who will be flying back.
400k holders of TT passports live abroad, with 250k in the US, and 150k in NYC area.
Yesterday the US had 230k new cases. Today they are on track for another 200k.
I'm sure Trinidad wants to open the borders, but their piss poor management of it in has caused the GoRTT to make these hard decisions.
And why does a 14 quarantine not solve the issue? What are we waiting for? Covid isn't going to disappear overnight, in a matter of months the new strain will be everywhere.....what is the point of reverting strategies?
teems1 wrote:Because Trinis are slack and won't self quarantine.
They will be out and about and spread to the population.
We have to mitigate as long as possible. Once the first set of vaccinations have gone through then we could look into it.Devourment wrote:teems1 wrote:You have to look at the likely outcomes.
It's not like if we open our borders, thousands from New Zealand or Vietnam (who have it under control) will be coming home.
It will mostly be people from the US, who will be flying back.
400k holders of TT passports live abroad, with 250k in the US, and 150k in NYC area.
Yesterday the US had 230k new cases. Today they are on track for another 200k.
I'm sure Trinidad wants to open the borders, but their piss poor management of it in has caused the GoRTT to make these hard decisions.
And why does a 14 quarantine not solve the issue? What are we waiting for? Covid isn't going to disappear overnight, in a matter of months the new strain will be everywhere.....what is the point of reverting strategies?
Devourment wrote:MaxPower wrote:Friends,
Whether borders are open or closed,
Locked down or not,
PNM or UNC,
Trini or Vene,
Responsibility is the determining factor.
You are avoiding the issue Max, the two aren't mutually exclusive here.
Ben_spanna wrote:Do you all Honestly think the typical Trini has the discipline to self quarantine when they HAVE to? Do you really think they stay home and not intermingle?
Im all for citizens who LIVE here and got trapped to come home- but must State quarantine for 3 weeks at their expense.
For all those " citizens" who have been living abroad for the past 5-10 years and more and simply want to Run home because the pandemic is so bad there- stay the hell there, wherever you are has been better for you for so long, then call there home and stay right there, we dont want you to come back.
Ben_spanna wrote:Do you all Honestly think the typical Trini has the discipline to self quarantine when they HAVE to? Do you really think they stay home and not intermingle?
Im all for citizens who LIVE here and got trapped to come home- but must State quarantine for 3 weeks at their expense.
For all those " citizens" who have been living abroad for the past 5-10 years and more and simply want to Run home because the pandemic is so bad there- stay the hell there, wherever you are has been better for you for so long, then call there home and stay right there, we dont want you to come back.
teems1 wrote:You have to look at the likely outcomes.
It's not like if we open our borders, thousands from New Zealand or Vietnam (who have it under control) will be coming home.
It will mostly be people from the US, who will be flying back.
400k holders of TT passports live abroad, with 250k in the US, and 150k in NYC area.
Yesterday the US had 230k new cases. Today they are on track for another 200k.
I'm sure Trinidad wants to open the borders, but their piss poor management of it in has caused the GoRTT to make these hard decisions.
Dizzy28 wrote:teems1 wrote:You have to look at the likely outcomes.
It's not like if we open our borders, thousands from New Zealand or Vietnam (who have it under control) will be coming home.
It will mostly be people from the US, who will be flying back.
400k holders of TT passports live abroad, with 250k in the US, and 150k in NYC area.
Yesterday the US had 230k new cases. Today they are on track for another 200k.
I'm sure Trinidad wants to open the borders, but their piss poor management of it in has caused the GoRTT to make these hard decisions.
Source for that 400k in TT passport holders living abroad? That basically 25% of what the island population is.
Edit- Never Mind. I see the UN had our migrant stock in 2017 at 374k with 252k in the US and 78k in Canada.
timelapse wrote:Ben_spanna wrote:Do you all Honestly think the typical Trini has the discipline to self quarantine when they HAVE to? Do you really think they stay home and not intermingle?
Im all for citizens who LIVE here and got trapped to come home- but must State quarantine for 3 weeks at their expense.
For all those " citizens" who have been living abroad for the past 5-10 years and more and simply want to Run home because the pandemic is so bad there- stay the hell there, wherever you are has been better for you for so long, then call there home and stay right there, we dont want you to come back.
Do you think the illegals that coming through the back door every day quarantining? They roaming about.Not everybody is 'the typical trini' that you speak about.If you were outside and had a family that depending on you, what would you do?You anticipated that you had to work abroad for 6 months and ended up staying a a year. Your family depending on you for money.What do you do, tell them to borrow?
Penguin wrote:Dizzy28 wrote:teems1 wrote:You have to look at the likely outcomes.
It's not like if we open our borders, thousands from New Zealand or Vietnam (who have it under control) will be coming home.
It will mostly be people from the US, who will be flying back.
400k holders of TT passports live abroad, with 250k in the US, and 150k in NYC area.
Yesterday the US had 230k new cases. Today they are on track for another 200k.
I'm sure Trinidad wants to open the borders, but their piss poor management of it in has caused the GoRTT to make these hard decisions.
Source for that 400k in TT passport holders living abroad? That basically 25% of what the island population is.
Edit- Never Mind. I see the UN had our migrant stock in 2017 at 374k with 252k in the US and 78k in Canada.
I have dozens of those 'trinis' in my family. They left during the 80s. Not a single one is begging to come back. To actually think even 5% want to come back immediately is ludicrous.
The trinis trapped abroad right now are the ones who genuinely live both places (like grandparents helping their kids), have work visas, students studying abroad and those who genuinely went for a vacation and are still there (my close friend is one, he went in December to stay 3 months with his Canadian fiancé and is now trapped there still).
Bring our citizens home, to keep so much out while Cudjoe, Rowley's daughter and Faris son can fly in and out as they please is a national disgrace!
Ben_spanna wrote:timelapse wrote:Ben_spanna wrote:Do you all Honestly think the typical Trini has the discipline to self quarantine when they HAVE to? Do you really think they stay home and not intermingle?
Im all for citizens who LIVE here and got trapped to come home- but must State quarantine for 3 weeks at their expense.
For all those " citizens" who have been living abroad for the past 5-10 years and more and simply want to Run home because the pandemic is so bad there- stay the hell there, wherever you are has been better for you for so long, then call there home and stay right there, we dont want you to come back.
Do you think the illegals that coming through the back door every day quarantining? They roaming about.Not everybody is 'the typical trini' that you speak about.If you were outside and had a family that depending on you, what would you do?You anticipated that you had to work abroad for 6 months and ended up staying a a year. Your family depending on you for money.What do you do, tell them to borrow?
You realize that the issue of legally who can enter through the borders for returning residents and the issue of ILLEGAL immigrants are 2 completely separate issues.... people are quick to point out the Venez arriving with this and that, and that their family cant get home , but they fail to realize its 2 separate issues with different agencies having to enforce different places ...
The immigrants that are coming through the back door is a lack of the Enforcement by the Min of Nat Security AND the lack of proper patrols along our nations coasts..... the issue with returning residents rests in the hands of one man to grant an exemption but its legal landing through ONE airport...
timelapse wrote:Ben_spanna wrote:timelapse wrote:Ben_spanna wrote:Do you all Honestly think the typical Trini has the discipline to self quarantine when they HAVE to? Do you really think they stay home and not intermingle?
Im all for citizens who LIVE here and got trapped to come home- but must State quarantine for 3 weeks at their expense.
For all those " citizens" who have been living abroad for the past 5-10 years and more and simply want to Run home because the pandemic is so bad there- stay the hell there, wherever you are has been better for you for so long, then call there home and stay right there, we dont want you to come back.
Do you think the illegals that coming through the back door every day quarantining? They roaming about.Not everybody is 'the typical trini' that you speak about.If you were outside and had a family that depending on you, what would you do?You anticipated that you had to work abroad for 6 months and ended up staying a a year. Your family depending on you for money.What do you do, tell them to borrow?
You realize that the issue of legally who can enter through the borders for returning residents and the issue of ILLEGAL immigrants are 2 completely separate issues.... people are quick to point out the Venez arriving with this and that, and that their family cant get home , but they fail to realize its 2 separate issues with different agencies having to enforce different places ...
The immigrants that are coming through the back door is a lack of the Enforcement by the Min of Nat Security AND the lack of proper patrols along our nations coasts..... the issue with returning residents rests in the hands of one man to grant an exemption but its legal landing through ONE airport...
Are we quarantining illegals?
Therefore there is a potentially larger threat from undocumented entry into the country.So it is related .
The entry of illegals rests in the hands of the same man or did you not realize that. We are enforcing strict laws on law abiding citizens, while the illegal element is having a good laugh and doing what they want. Sounds like how our police service works too ent? Which coincidentally rests in the same man's hands ultimately as well. The Minister of National Security for those who don't know. Call me whatever, but I don't think its fair that our citizens out there stranded, some suffering, while our borders are very open to illegals and some of us encouraging them.Do you have any family outside that can't come home?
teems1 wrote:timelapse wrote:Ben_spanna wrote:timelapse wrote:Ben_spanna wrote:Do you all Honestly think the typical Trini has the discipline to self quarantine when they HAVE to? Do you really think they stay home and not intermingle?
Im all for citizens who LIVE here and got trapped to come home- but must State quarantine for 3 weeks at their expense.
For all those " citizens" who have been living abroad for the past 5-10 years and more and simply want to Run home because the pandemic is so bad there- stay the hell there, wherever you are has been better for you for so long, then call there home and stay right there, we dont want you to come back.
Do you think the illegals that coming through the back door every day quarantining? They roaming about.Not everybody is 'the typical trini' that you speak about.If you were outside and had a family that depending on you, what would you do?You anticipated that you had to work abroad for 6 months and ended up staying a a year. Your family depending on you for money.What do you do, tell them to borrow?
You realize that the issue of legally who can enter through the borders for returning residents and the issue of ILLEGAL immigrants are 2 completely separate issues.... people are quick to point out the Venez arriving with this and that, and that their family cant get home , but they fail to realize its 2 separate issues with different agencies having to enforce different places ...
The immigrants that are coming through the back door is a lack of the Enforcement by the Min of Nat Security AND the lack of proper patrols along our nations coasts..... the issue with returning residents rests in the hands of one man to grant an exemption but its legal landing through ONE airport...
Are we quarantining illegals?
Therefore there is a potentially larger threat from undocumented entry into the country.So it is related .
The entry of illegals rests in the hands of the same man or did you not realize that. We are enforcing strict laws on law abiding citizens, while the illegal element is having a good laugh and doing what they want. Sounds like how our police service works too ent? Which coincidentally rests in the same man's hands ultimately as well. The Minister of National Security for those who don't know. Call me whatever, but I don't think its fair that our citizens out there stranded, some suffering, while our borders are very open to illegals and some of us encouraging them.Do you have any family outside that can't come home?
How rampant is Covid in Venezuela? Especially among the poorer socioeconomic segment who find themselves in Trinidad since the better off ones go Florida, Houston, Spain etc.
100 boatloads could come across with fewer cases than 1 flight from NYC.
elec2020 wrote:my view may be contentious but the people who still out there only have themselves to blame. from as early as january places in china were locking down borders. then in february other countries were doing so. and despite that trend you decide to travel? you decided it was ok to take that risk ain't? so why u begging to come back. you took the gamble. now for cases where the travel was for health reasons i sympathize with them as well as foreign students/workers. but i still believe that when u start seeing countries left, right and center locking down the place you shoulda look to get your tail back here asap. but nah i forget, God is a trini.
timelapse wrote:I say let our citizens back in.Some are out there suffering,health issues, people depending on them here etc. Border lockdown is a sham anyways, as illegals are coming in by the boatload daily. Let our legal citizens come home.Now I not referring to the dual citizens who have a life abroad.They can afford to stay where they are. My dad waiting to come home since the beginning of Covid,the time frame given was not enough to reach home in time before the borders closed.Flights from the US were already booked up and he is in Mexico.If he left , he would have been stranded in the US as well.We can talk in ideals all we want.Unless you have somebody outside that needs to come home, you do not know the kind of mental distress it causes.My dad contracted Covid out there.Imagine the nightmare if he had died there. Who feels it knows
Dizzy28 wrote:elec2020 wrote:my view may be contentious but the people who still out there only have themselves to blame. from as early as january places in china were locking down borders. then in february other countries were doing so. and despite that trend you decide to travel? you decided it was ok to take that risk ain't? so why u begging to come back. you took the gamble. now for cases where the travel was for health reasons i sympathize with them as well as foreign students/workers. but i still believe that when u start seeing countries left, right and center locking down the place you shoulda look to get your tail back here asap. but nah i forget, God is a trini.
Yea its not as if the GORTT portrayed a totally different picture. Running a Carnival where we welcomed thousands of foreigners etc in late February.
But John Public supposed to have foresight beyond that of the Government and have not traveled in Jan and Feb.
Only Ppl who left here in March I would have no sympathy for.
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