The Tobago Self-Government Bill, 2020...

[FrankChag]

A Tobago Premier and Deputy-Premier.
So do 'dadians get a Trinidad Premier?

http://www.ttparliament.org/publication ... =28&id=895
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=497620311273941 [explanatory video]

[timelapse]

What funny is that the first time I heard about this, it was being pitched by a black caucus member to me.Scary times for tobago if they involved in this.They all about buying and selling property and nothing to do with the upliftment of black people.But people does get tie up with them

[zoom rader]

What funny is that the first time I heard about this, it was being pitched by a black caucus member to me.Scary times for tobago if they involved in this.They all about buying and selling property and nothing to do with the upliftment of black people.But people does get tie up with them

The black caucus is really a Sub red government group that main objectives is pull back the free thinking black folk back into the red government. There are all about themselves

[The_Honourable]

This is NOT an autonomy bill!

by Dr Winford James

Whatever the Constitution (Amendment) (Tobago Self-government) Bill, 2021 is intended to be, it is definitely NOT an autonomy bill, and I will show you why. This latest bill in the ongoing saga of the attempt to fix Tobago’s governance structure, while purporting to recognise ‘equality of status’ between Tobago and Trinidad ‘within the unitary State of Trinidad and Tobago’ and enable ‘the right of the people of Tobago to determine, in Tobago, their political, economic, social and cultural development’ falls far short of what is needed.

Which is disastrous on a number of grounds after some 137 years of union. I proceed on the assumption, as does the bill, that autonomy and self-government are terms speaking to the same state of affairs and the latter is realised when a territory (such as Tobago) governs itself and, therefore, is not under the control of a higher level of government.

One ground is that the bill places the governance arrangements in the Constitution of T&T—a mechanism that is not controlled by Tobago but, ultimately, by 39 Trinidadians in the House of Representatives and a large majority of Trinidadians in the Senate. If, after the passage of such a bill, Tobagonians should ever want to upgrade their governance to facilitate their freedom and development, they would have to go to Trinidad for permission to do so. That must be the antithesis of equal status and self-government and is accordingly quite intolerable.

A second ground is that the bill excludes Tobago’s maritime boundaries from the definition it provides for the island. The bill declares that “[f]or the purposes of sections 53, 75A and Chapter 11A, a reference to ‘Tobago’ means the Island of Tobago, Little Tobago, St Giles Island, Marble Island, Goat Island, Sisters Island and the internal and inland waters of Tobago.” It rejects the definition in the current THA Act (40 of 1996)—which is that Tobago’s maritime boundary is at six miles from the mainland baseline—and focuses superfluously on the internal waters. It disrespects the international definition, in these kinds of matters, of a median or equidistant line between the baselines of Tobago and Trinidad.


This is a loose state of affairs in which the proposed TIG (Tobago Island Government) is denied their fair and desired natural geographical jurisdiction over the island. If you have a property that includes offshore waters but you are denied ownership of the offshore waters, aren’t you being denied access to, and exploitation of, the wealth in those waters? Surely, the absence of Tobago’s natural maritime boundaries is either an unfortunate oversight or a deliberate barrier to Tobago’s right to a specific formula and a predictable arrangement for financing Tobago’s push for development within the context, and on the behalf, of the nation of Trinidad and Tobago.

A third ground is that the bill assigns the THA (Tobago House of Assembly) two prescribed schedules of responsibilities—a 4th Schedule of areas for law making and a 5th Schedule of areas for administration—while leaving all remaining areas of governance, including reserve responsibilities, to an entity called Trinidad and Tobago, which can only be Trinidad. This is the opposite of what is required. To be truly self-governing, Tobago must prescribe what it wants the Central Government to do to facilitate its development. And while the Central Government—as distinct from Trinidad—must have its own package of responsibilities, it makes good sense for Tobago to have the right of concurrence in respect of some of those responsibilities.

But on this matter, the framers of the bill faced a conundrum which they either could not, or were afraid to, resolve: how to set up self-government arrangements for one of the islands in the union without doing so for the other. So they copped out by allowing ‘Trinidad and Tobago’ to be ‘Trinidad’ by default and hoping we wouldn’t make a fuss about it.

On this matter of the Schedules, at least two further observations need to be made. One is that the principle used to differentiate between the 4th and 5th Schedules is opaque, if it exists at all. And a second is that the 5th Schedule has been reconstituted—some areas have been removed and/or adjusted, others have been included—without the matter being specifically drawn to our attention in the Explanatory Notes, making us suspect a certain sneakiness.

A fourth ground is that the bill compounds fundamental flaws in the current THA Act by i) providing for executive government under rules which allow the Premier to establish an Executive Council that is a majority of the THA; and ii) lacking provisions for representative government (eg, effective legislative oversight of all executive functions and adequate opportunities to petition the government to introduce laws and policies for facilitating successful collaboration in competition).

There’s much more to expose, but suffice it to say that, overall, the bill reflects little or no understanding that autonomy really resides in a Bill of Rights and that the prosecution of these rights should not be constrained by some higher body or level of government in the union.

(To be continued)

Source: https://www.guardian.co.tt/opinion/this ... cd8a429c74

[zoom rader]

It's time we free these Africans in Tobago. Set dem free

[bluefete]

I hope you are ready for when Tobago breakaway.

[zoom rader]

I hope you are ready for when Tobago breakaway.

Set these Africans free

[bluefete]

I hope you are ready for when Tobago breakaway.

Set these Africans free

Don't worry Zoom. That day is coming no matter how many games the PNM wants to play.

[daxt0r]

what's this all about really?
is it that tobago expect that we just hand over money from the treasury without accountability and still be a dependency whilst still being in full control? Isn't this what happens now? Is years now thing like Manta Lodge and zipline happening, is just eat ah food mania and having an entire welfare population/state.

Or is it that they no longer getting a cent from Trinidad's treasury, thus living on their own contribution to the economic pie, and self sufficient? If is this i fully support this bill, heck post all the PNM supporters and anyone not paying tax across dey. Let them finally earn their keep and contribute meaningfully to the economy.

[bluefete]

what's this all about really?
is it that tobago expect that we just hand over money from the treasury without accountability and still be a dependency whilst still being in full control? Isn't this what happens now? Is years now thing like Manta Lodge and zipline happening, is just eat ah food mania and having an entire welfare population/state.

Or is it that they no longer getting a cent from Trinidad's treasury, thus living on their own contribution to the economic pie, and self sufficient? If is this i fully support this bill, heck post all the PNM supporters and anyone not paying tax across dey. Let them finally earn their keep and contribute meaningfully to the economy.

Tobago will eventually wean itself from the Treasury.

But once you have people like the PNM running things and Watson Duke waiting in the wings, they will just want more and more money from Trinidad.

Remember Ring-Bang under Hochoy Charles back in 1998?

[The_Honourable]

Key Tobagonians have their say on draft autonomy bills

The Joint Select Committee of Parliament recently laid its report on giving Tobago greater autonomy in the form of two draft bills- Constitution Amendment (Tobago Self Government) Bill (2021) and Tobago Island Government Bill (2021).

A document with Tobago's wishes was sent to Cabinet in the form of a draft bill.

Here is what prominent Tobagonians had to say about the new drafts.


1) Tracy Davidson- Celestine

Political Leader- Tobago Council- People's National Movement (PNM)

This is a historic moment for Tobago and these bills represent a significant step and a pathway for greater autonomy, equality of status with Trinidad; a more impactful financial structure for the island, and lawmaking powers. I urge all Tobagonians and Political Parties to rally around this last opportunity because this is something we can work with and build upon.

2) Farley Augustine

Deputy leader- Progressive Democratic Patriots

The bills are incomplete and are deliberately left that way. It is a great situational irony that bills to grant Tobago the right to self-determination and equality of status with Trinidad, in so many ways, ignore the desires of the people of Tobago.

3) Ancil Dennis- PNM's area representative - Buccoo/Mt. Pleasant

Chief Secretary

The bills, in their current form while not perfect, are better than the first version and put Tobago in a position of far greater responsibilities and resources than we ever had. Autonomy is not a matter of finality; it is a journey.

4) Hochoy Charles-

Former Chief Secretary and chairman of One Tobago Voice

The entire bill must be rejected by the people of Tobago having regard to the conversation we are having. There is no structure in the bill.

5) Kwesi Des Vignes

Former Leader of Assembly Business- PNM

As Tobagonians, we are at a crossroads in the journey towards greater autonomy. Future generations will either look back at this moment with great reverence as one in which we all came together and made a major step forward or with chagrin because ego, political and personal ambition were more important than Tobago's progress.

6) Dr. Winford James

Political Analyst

The bills are a reversal of many good autonomy ideas from 2016 and earlier. I stand resolutely against them.

7) Dr. Vanus James

Mathematical Economist

These Bills fail to deliver to Tobago the promised equality of status or self-determination and should be rejected on that basis alone. However, they also include provisions that will effectively make Tobago a colony of Trinidad and severely damage the economic diversification and development prospects of the country.

8.) Stanley Beard

Former THA Secretary and member of Unaligned Tobago Politicians

The bills presented will not advance the cause and needs of Tobagonians. Tobagonians must be responsible for charting a course and the pace of development on the island.

9) Shirley Cooke

Vice president- Crown Point Business Association

The provisions in the bills do not reflect the right to self-determination and equality of status as listed in the Amended Constitution. The period allowed for Tobagonians to adequately peruse and consult on the Joint Select Committee proposal is insufficient.

10) Deborah Moore- Miggins- Former assemblyman and only independent candidate to ever win a seat in the THA elections

The bills are contradictory within themselves and are inconsistent in several respects with what Tobago people have expressly said what they want and should be withdrawn. They take us back to before 1996 and are totally unacceptable.

Source: https://www.guardian.co.tt/news/key-tob ... c3a980bf86

[Redman]

Once we don't lose any exclusive economic zone area...and associated mineral rights...I eh bothered.

They want independence but unable to share power?

[The_Honourable]

^^^As you mentioned that...

Tobagonians want to remain in unitary state

The notion that “many people (Tobagonians) ...opposed to the (Autonomy) Bills are piggybacking ...to push secession,” as expressed by Tobago East area representative Shamfa Cudjoe appears to paint all opposed to the autonomy draft bills as successors, say prominent Tobagonians.

On Wednesday and Thursday Cudjoe, a Tobagonian and JSC member studying the Tobago autonomy bills, made the claim on Tobago Channel 5 and i95.5.

Yesterday, she took offence with a Guardian Media article reporting her statement and some Tobagonians comments concerning it.

Using her personal Facebook page, she posted a 30-second clip of the PDP’s area representative for Mason Hall Ian Pollard advocating secession.

She captioned the clip:

“Camille Mc Eachnie of The Guardian… a little research goes a long way…About these Tobagonians who are pushing Secession. (If you’re gonna tell the story, tell the whole story…anything else is Bogus!”

Prominent islander– PDP’s leader and president of the Public Services Association, Watson Duke, is also on record wanting independence for Tobago.

However, many critics of the autonomy report, including former Tobago House Assembly chief secretary Hochoy Charles, CivilNET’s Shirley Cooke, Dr Vanus James, and members of the Progressive Democratic Patriots(PDP), say they want to remain with Trinidad.

What they are advocating for is further changes to it and the passage of the autonomy bills in Parliament. The existing drafts are Constitution Amendment ( Tobago Self-Government Bill 2021 and Tobago Island Government Bill (2021).

Guardian Media reached out to vocal critics on the autonomy report, asking if they want to separate from Trinidad.

“Quite often, you see politicians trying to switch narratives to broad-brush all opposed to an issue, and this most likely is the case here. The suggestion that people opposed to the autonomy drafts are secessionist needs to be debunked,” one of CivilNET’s committee members Cooke told Guardian Media.

“There are few, not many, who want to secede. However, CivilNET’s position, as advocated by its members, is that we remain with Trinidad. Our organisation represents a wide cross-section of civil society, and they have not said so,” Cooke added.

Cooke said the provisions dealing with the oversight committee on the Assembly’s finances and Tobago’s equal status to Trinidad concern CivilNET. “The report pays lip service to equality with Trinidad,” she said.

James shared similar sentiments.

“That secession comment is fear-mongering. It’s the concept saying if you disagree with them, (politicians) They must paint you in a certain light. Tobagonians are saying the JSC drafts are woefully inadequate and must be changed.”

James said the JSC report should propose an increase in Tobago’s budget.

James also said Tobago should get “its fair share of its budget proportional to the population and its fair share of the development opportunities created by the national resources.”

He does not propose a fixed overall minimum allocation. He wants a budget that changes annually based on population size and resources in the geographical space. The report proposed an annual allocation of a minimum of 6.8 per cent of the national budget.

Charles said he does not want secession, he prefers to talk about “ rejecting the bills outright.”

“That is what Orville London would have wanted as it does not capture what was sent in the 2016 bills to Trinidad. That is what I am concerned about, not who saying who wants secession. Nonsense talk,” Charles told Guardian Media.

He wants Tobago to have “real legislative power not currently outlined in the JSC report, “he said.

One of PDP’s deputy leaders, Farley Augustine, said the party does not want to secede.

“Bills to be debated in the Parliament, starting on Monday, do not accede to any of the critical issues, as outlined by the people of Tobago,” Augustine said.

“It is therefore disingenuous of the Member for Tobago West, Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe to ignore the fact that the JSC that she has been a part of has disrespected and ignored the wishing of Tobago. “

He added:” Instead, she is focusing on the dog-whistle word secession¿ with hopes of instilling fear into the people of Tobago while inciting anger in the people of Trinidad.

Source: https://www.guardian.co.tt/news/tobagon ... d961e1ef4d

[De Dragon]

what's this all about really?
is it that tobago expect that we just hand over money from the treasury without accountability and still be a dependency whilst still being in full control? Isn't this what happens now? Is years now thing like Manta Lodge and zipline happening, is just eat ah food mania and having an entire welfare population/state.

Or is it that they no longer getting a cent from Trinidad's treasury, thus living on their own contribution to the economic pie, and self sufficient? If is this i fully support this bill, heck post all the PNM supporters and anyone not paying tax across dey. Let them finally earn their keep and contribute meaningfully to the economy.

This is exactly what they expect, which is surprising because they already are unaccountable to anyone in this LFD RFD PNM GORTT given the kingmaker status of the 2 seats they have. Maybe it is a way to ensure that unaccountability under a different government? Their original 8% request of the National Budget notably did not include ANY oversight mechanism for even them to monitor and scrutinize the expenditure.

[bluefete]

Once we don't lose any exclusive economic zone area...and associated mineral rights...I eh bothered.

They want independence but unable to share power?

Wait for it. Soon come. I am going to look for a letter I read a few years ago and post it.

[bluefete]

Once we don't lose any exclusive economic zone area...and associated mineral rights...I eh bothered.

They want independence but unable to share power?

Wait for it. Soon come. I am going to look for a letter I read a few years ago and post it.

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
Tobago will surprise us
CAMILLE MORENO SUNDAY 3 NOVEMBER 2019

THE EDITOR: I am watching with great anticipation the beginning of events that will affect Tobago and Trinidad.

Many years ago, when I was a form three student, I had a geography teacher who was from Tobago. I clearly remember, one day, a class discussion where he stated what would happen to Trinidad if Tobago ever became independent. Issues of exclusive economic zones and ownership of oil and gas fields still resonate strongly in my mind.

In 1999, my now deceased Uncle Gerald wrote the following: "Different Currency for Trinidad and Tobago: This the Lord showed me on Saturday, 21st August 1999. And on the one for Tobago was printed: 'Don't touch Tobago.' They were separate monetary notes."

BC Pires, who is an agnostic and does not know if God exists, is being used by that same God, in his writings, and he does not even know it.

In the Newsday of November 1, BC wrote that if Tobago becomes independent, it will "have its own constitution... prime minister ... and currency".

Several commentators, including Dr Bishnu Ragoonath, do not think that Tobago can be self-reliant. They are all going to be in for a huge surprise. Watson Duke may or may not be the person to make it happen. However, it is fascinating to watch prophecy and history unfold.

LINUS F DIDIER

Mt Hope

[The_Honourable]

Tobago Self-Government Bill Debated in Parliament




Calls to Reject the Tobago Self-Government Bill

[Redman]

A 2018 article highlights the oil and gas resources that become entangled.Add to this fishing and other blue resources that come into question...

http://www.trinidadandtobagonews.com/blog/?p=10640


This is a 2012 article ...same author almost the same article..

http://www.trinidadandtobagonews.com/blog/?p=6537

Tobago must accordingly be granted an adequate measure of resource jurisdiction and effective and exclusive control over its rich maritime patrimony to be exploited as Tobagonians see fit to increase their self-reliance and economic independence and incrementally reduce their traditional dependency syndrome on Trinidad. These hydrocarbons lie on the natural physical prolongation of Tobago into and under the sea. That is the legal basis for claims to the resources of the sea universally. They are nearer to Tobago and installations are clearly visible.

[De Dragon]

A 2018 article highlights the oil and gas resources that become entangled.Add to this fishing and other blue resources that come into question...

http://www.trinidadandtobagonews.com/blog/?p=10640


This is a 2012 article ...same author almost the same article..

http://www.trinidadandtobagonews.com/blog/?p=6537

Tobago must accordingly be granted an adequate measure of resource jurisdiction and effective and exclusive control over its rich maritime patrimony to be exploited as Tobagonians see fit to increase their self-reliance and economic independence and incrementally reduce their traditional dependency syndrome on Trinidad. These hydrocarbons lie on the natural physical prolongation of Tobago into and under the sea. That is the legal basis for claims to the resources of the sea universally. They are nearer to Tobago and installations are clearly visible.

There are Tobagonians who seem to be pushing a "what is mine is mine, but what is yours is also mine" agenda. This goes against the very Constitution of T&T which states basically that there cannot be any separate consideration or allowance of Tobago as the sovereign nation of T&T is the independent entity.
Tobago cannot remain in the nation Trinidad and Tobago, and yet be allowed to get what some of them are seeking. I'm all for self determination, but it is simply absurd to ask for financial autonomy, without ANY accountability mind you, and yet want to exploit OUR national resources to your sole benefit.
IF Tobago wants to control "their" resources, proper accounting, and a concurrent reduction in their allocation from central government must follow, allowing for savings and reinvestment of course.

[pugboy]

dunno why they bother to go thru all this hemming and hawing
long and short is they will continue to want to be fed massively from the overall budget
just not possible for them to continue otherwise.
we all know how the end result will be

[Redman]

Like so many other things the world has turned away from this.

Going forward both islands need each other to have a broad spectrum attraction to a world looking to go somewhere.

[zoom rader]

Like so many other things the world has turned away from this.

Going forward both islands need each other to have a broad spectrum attraction to a world looking to go somewhere.

Bago does not need Trinidad.

That chit is pushed by the red government.

Bago can be very successful just as the Cayman Islands, British Virgin Islands and Bermuda. Offshore banking and proper tourism will boost this. It's the perfect size and population to set this up.

In it present state bago is a mess

[bluefete]

Zoom is right. I hope allyuh ready to get visa and passport to go Tobago.

Like so many other things the world has turned away from this.

Going forward both islands need each other to have a broad spectrum attraction to a world looking to go somewhere.

Bago does not need Trinidad.

That chit is pushed by the red government.

Bago can be very successful just as the Cayman Islands, British Virgin Islands and Bermuda. Offshore banking and proper tourism will boost this. It's the perfect size and population to set this up.

In it present state bago is a mess

[Redman]

If in its present state Tobago is a mess.
Then they need all the help they can get.

[zoom rader]

If in its present state Tobago is a mess.
Then they need all the help they can get.

Bago was a self seving island years ago before independence. They did not depend on Trini. They provide their own foods and was the garden of the West Indies.

Everyone that worked in Agriculture was told massa day done and now depend on THA for a lil income when they should have been their bosses making own money

Post independence and look where bago is Agriculture is all dead and what supposed to be the best Tourism island is a con job.

[Dizzy28]

Is this autonomy going to work anywhere similar to the UK model?
As it currently stands Scottish (and Welsh and NI) MPs vote in the British Parliament even on issues that would generally affect England only whilst still having a Scottish (Welsh and NI) Parliament where they then vote on bills solely for Scottish (Welsh and NI) issues.

So would the two Tobago MPs vote in the Red House potentially on votes that would affect Trinidad only as the autonomous THA would then control that particular issue across there?

[sMASH]

tobago does not need trinidad. they shoudl get their proportion of the budget as their proportion of the population.

they ahve a sheit tonne of resources and turism to see their own way.

the only reason why tobago is lumped with trinidad is cause the british linked the two islands for administrative exigences.
if that did not happen, tobago would ahve been just like any of the other lesser antillies islands.



tobago needs to wean it self off the guvament, and then go independent. they are a useful drain on the economy, but not necessarily vital for the economy.

[Habit7]

UNC supporters are preaching succession and independence for Tobago. They don't want that. They want autonomy within TT.
Independence would mean 2 fewer seats for elections and UNCites see it as beneficial to them rather than actually campaigning to win it.

Tobago extends our exclusive economic zone especially in the areas where we want to explore for the remaining hydrocarbon resources in deep water. Kicking out Tobago will be cutting off your nose to spoil your face because hooray PNM will have fewer seats and we saved the money going to them in the budget but, now we have fewer resources and fewer sources of revenue.

But for Tobagonians, 10yrs now we are having consultations for Tobago autonomy. The majority voted PNM and they drafted the bill. Just allow the bill to be passed and if those opposed see fit, vote out PNM and have the bill changed. Until then, to expect perfection will not allow anything to be done.

[paid_influencer]

set them free

[Redman]

Long and short

Tobago equates to economic resources that have been underutilized.

Spending resources to divide -and then having each island pour scarcer resources to replace whatever is lost makes no sense.

We should be focused on how to make it work in 2021.

Post Covid 202X is gonna require us to do different things and things differently