TriniTuner.com  |  Latest Event:  

Forums

Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

this is how we do it.......

Moderator: 3ne2nr Mods

User avatar
The Bamboo Online
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 215
Joined: August 7th, 2011, 9:08 am

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby The Bamboo Online » October 23rd, 2022, 7:08 am

Strugglerzinc wrote:
Rovin wrote:i not a hybrid owner but i seeing an ad on fb for "HYBRID BATTERY CONDITIONING SPECIAL $600" ... so jes curious on what exactly they doing for only 600 ?


Plug in an OBD adapter, open an App on their phone and follow the onscreen step by step instructions.


Bit more involved than that. Basic reconditioning Involves buying charging and discharging equipment that connects directly to the pack and drains all the modules very low, almost to zero volts and charges it to the max voltage very slowly. This is done a few times in different voltage levels each time. Takes a few days to complete. I usually do this on the weekends when I don’t need my car. The process allows the battery modules to balance and increase storage capacity.

adnj
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10073
Joined: February 24th, 2014, 2:55 pm

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby adnj » October 23rd, 2022, 7:40 am

The Bamboo Online wrote:
Strugglerzinc wrote:
Rovin wrote:i not a hybrid owner but i seeing an ad on fb for "HYBRID BATTERY CONDITIONING SPECIAL $600" ... so jes curious on what exactly they doing for only 600 ?


Plug in an OBD adapter, open an App on their phone and follow the onscreen step by step instructions.


Bit more involved than that. Basic reconditioning Involves buying charging and discharging equipment that connects directly to the pack and drains all the modules very low, almost to zero volts and charges it to the max voltage very slowly. This is done a few times in different voltage levels each time. Takes a few days to complete. I usually do this on the weekends when I don’t need my car. The process allows the battery modules to balance and increase storage capacity.
Cycle discharging will work on NiCd and NiMH battery chemistries. LiIon does not benefit from cycle discharging. However, you can extend the life of LiIon by moderating the max/min cell voltages, operating/storage temperatures, discharge rate (aggressive driving), and slowing the pack recharge rate.
-------------

Driving habits and temperature also affects aging, a characteristic that came to light when EV batteries operating in a warm climate faded prematurely. It was learned that keeping a battery at elevated temperature and high state-of-charge causes more stress than aggressive driving. In other words, keeping a fully charged Li-ion at 30°C (86°F) and above hastens the aging process more than driving at a moderate temperature. Many EV batteries include liquid cooling to reduce heat-related battery fade.

The EV does not disclose the battery capacity to the driver and only reveals state-of-charge (SoC) in the form of driving range. This is done in part for fear of customer complaints should the capacity drop below the mandated level at the end of the warranty period. Less knowledge is often better. The same restriction applies to a mobile phone battery, although access codes for service personnel are often available. A new battery has (should have) a capacity of 100%; 80% is the typical end of battery life.

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/w ... ev-battery

User avatar
ProtonPowder
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1894
Joined: April 2nd, 2018, 1:15 pm

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby ProtonPowder » October 23rd, 2022, 12:31 pm

Li-Ion batteries dont like to be fully charged or discharged, they have a sweet spot range where you should keep them if you want to max out your battery lifespan. This range is about 15-85%.

This is why most phones running the newer versions of android also give you the option to limit charging to 85% to preserve battery health.

User avatar
Strugglerzinc
punchin NOS
Posts: 4027
Joined: July 1st, 2005, 11:11 am
Location: Second star to the right.

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Strugglerzinc » October 23rd, 2022, 3:28 pm

The Bamboo Online wrote:
Strugglerzinc wrote:
Rovin wrote:i not a hybrid owner but i seeing an ad on fb for "HYBRID BATTERY CONDITIONING SPECIAL $600" ... so jes curious on what exactly they doing for only 600 ?


Plug in an OBD adapter, open an App on their phone and follow the onscreen step by step instructions.


Bit more involved than that. Basic reconditioning Involves buying charging and discharging equipment that connects directly to the pack and drains all the modules very low, almost to zero volts and charges it to the max voltage very slowly. This is done a few times in different voltage levels each time. Takes a few days to complete. I usually do this on the weekends when I don’t need my car. The process allows the battery modules to balance and increase storage capacity.


You're describing the $1500+ method. The $400-$600 fellas are Dr Prius users. I imagine the joy of your Aqua returning a 100% Like new condition result is worth the $600.

kamakazi
punchin NOS
Posts: 2862
Joined: February 14th, 2009, 10:32 am

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby kamakazi » October 24th, 2022, 4:17 pm

Doesn't this process add to the wear and tear on the battery pack.

In regards to batteries in phones and hybrids/EVs; don't they already provide provisions for you to not fully charge or discharge your battery. Isn't this done by not telling you the exact state of charge. So 100% on your dash or display might be 90% actual charge and 0% on your display might be 10% actual charge.
Not to say it isn't good to keep it in the middle but in the interest of saving both user and hardware from damage the figures are reported with this offset

pugboy
TunerGod
Posts: 25286
Joined: September 6th, 2003, 6:18 pm

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby pugboy » October 25th, 2022, 5:31 am

what equipment. you using ?
does it monitor cells individually during the cycles?

The Bamboo Online wrote:
Strugglerzinc wrote:
Rovin wrote:i not a hybrid owner but i seeing an ad on fb for "HYBRID BATTERY CONDITIONING SPECIAL $600" ... so jes curious on what exactly they doing for only 600 ?


Plug in an OBD adapter, open an App on their phone and follow the onscreen step by step instructions.


Bit more involved than that. Basic reconditioning Involves buying charging and discharging equipment that connects directly to the pack and drains all the modules very low, almost to zero volts and charges it to the max voltage very slowly. This is done a few times in different voltage levels each time. Takes a few days to complete. I usually do this on the weekends when I don’t need my car. The process allows the battery modules to balance and increase storage capacity.

User avatar
The Bamboo Online
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 215
Joined: August 7th, 2011, 9:08 am

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby The Bamboo Online » October 25th, 2022, 8:11 am

Nope this will charge and discharge the whole pack as one big battery while still in the car. But it does it in stages so not to blow out weaker modules and give them time to catch up to the stronger ones. It’s very basic reconditioning that requires no work on your part just plug in and walk away.

pugboy wrote:what equipment. you using ?
does it monitor cells individually during the cycles?

The Bamboo Online wrote:
Strugglerzinc wrote:
Rovin wrote:i not a hybrid owner but i seeing an ad on fb for "HYBRID BATTERY CONDITIONING SPECIAL $600" ... so jes curious on what exactly they doing for only 600 ?


Plug in an OBD adapter, open an App on their phone and follow the onscreen step by step instructions.


Bit more involved than that. Basic reconditioning Involves buying charging and discharging equipment that connects directly to the pack and drains all the modules very low, almost to zero volts and charges it to the max voltage very slowly. This is done a few times in different voltage levels each time. Takes a few days to complete. I usually do this on the weekends when I don’t need my car. The process allows the battery modules to balance and increase storage capacity.

pugboy
TunerGod
Posts: 25286
Joined: September 6th, 2003, 6:18 pm

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby pugboy » October 25th, 2022, 8:38 am

ok, i have a few chargers powerlab and i charger for lipos
you normally look for the weaker cells which get sucked down first and cause stress on rest of pack
i know the early teslas used fuses on the cells which would blow and detach a weak cell from the pack

frydry
Ricer
Posts: 16
Joined: October 2nd, 2011, 2:01 pm

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby frydry » October 25th, 2022, 11:47 am

kamakazi wrote:Doesn't this process add to the wear and tear on the battery pack.

In regards to batteries in phones and hybrids/EVs; don't they already provide provisions for you to not fully charge or discharge your battery. Isn't this done by not telling you the exact state of charge. So 100% on your dash or display might be 90% actual charge and 0% on your display might be 10% actual charge.
Not to say it isn't good to keep it in the middle but in the interest of saving both user and hardware from damage the figures are reported with this offset


Agreed. That's my thinking on it too. But open to be educated on the science of the reconditioning.
Also, never saw this mentioned in any vehicle manuals

Musical Doc
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 752
Joined: January 22nd, 2013, 7:59 pm

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Musical Doc » October 25th, 2022, 2:05 pm

Strugglerzinc wrote:
The Bamboo Online wrote:
Strugglerzinc wrote:
Rovin wrote:i not a hybrid owner but i seeing an ad on fb for "HYBRID BATTERY CONDITIONING SPECIAL $600" ... so jes curious on what exactly they doing for only 600 ?


Plug in an OBD adapter, open an App on their phone and follow the onscreen step by step instructions.


Bit more involved than that. Basic reconditioning Involves buying charging and discharging equipment that connects directly to the pack and drains all the modules very low, almost to zero volts and charges it to the max voltage very slowly. This is done a few times in different voltage levels each time. Takes a few days to complete. I usually do this on the weekends when I don’t need my car. The process allows the battery modules to balance and increase storage capacity.


You're describing the $1500+ method. The $400-$600 fellas are Dr Prius users. I imagine the joy of your Aqua returning a 100% Like new condition result is worth the $600.


Are you sure about this because as far as I know, the Dr Prius app doesn't do reconditioning. The function most used in the Dr Prius app is the life expectancy test which tests the battery health.

pugboy
TunerGod
Posts: 25286
Joined: September 6th, 2003, 6:18 pm

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby pugboy » October 25th, 2022, 3:43 pm

the proper way is to slow charge up and make sure all cells are topped then
discharge and measure capacity they putting out in total and individually
weak cells get empty fast and put under stress by being overdischarged which in turn puts more stress on others.

reconditioning just makes sure cells which are weaker and not being charged fully are brought up to full capacity
it doesnt make the battery much better in the long term, weak cells will remain weak.

modern lithium batteries monitor each cell indidivudally during charge

Bimmerhead
Street 2NR
Posts: 73
Joined: July 5th, 2013, 4:10 pm

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Bimmerhead » November 21st, 2022, 9:47 am

Dropping this for future reference.

Sylphy 1.8l - 11.7km/l
Attachments
05_50608.jpg

User avatar
Duane 3NE 2NR
Admin
Posts: 27139
Joined: March 24th, 2003, 10:27 am
Location: T&T
Contact:

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » November 21st, 2022, 9:54 am

Bimmerhead wrote:Sylphy 1.8l - 11.7km/l

Highway?

Bimmerhead
Street 2NR
Posts: 73
Joined: July 5th, 2013, 4:10 pm

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Bimmerhead » November 21st, 2022, 10:41 am

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
Bimmerhead wrote:Sylphy 1.8l - 11.7km/l

Highway?


Not sure honestly, just saw the vehicle for sale with the info available.

I'm trying to establish a little repository for local fuel economy, while highway and city driving contributes to the average and therefore the greater portion of either would skew the info in one direction or the other its still useful to me and i guess who ever else would want to make a quick reference check before a purchase or to advise others.

When i was searching for my car Google and Manufacturer figures wasnt an accurate depiction of our local driving conditions and habits.

Bimmerhead
Street 2NR
Posts: 73
Joined: July 5th, 2013, 4:10 pm

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Bimmerhead » January 19th, 2023, 10:28 am

Cheers to the New Year!!

Have a partner that bought a 2019 Swift foreign used last month. He got the car with 12km/l on the dash.

After discussing the fuel economy features on his dash he was impressed and decided to monitor his driving. Saw him yesterday and he was pleased so inform me he is now at 16.8km/l. Honestly im impressed but not entirely surprised when comparing it to my heavier and bigger ciaz at 15.5km/l currently.

Ben_spanna
punchin NOS
Posts: 3055
Joined: October 28th, 2016, 9:25 am

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Ben_spanna » January 19th, 2023, 10:31 am

The Kia Niro claims to have almost 20.8 km/l however i would say its more like 19km/l in our environment with our climate and this is based on mixed highway/traffic driving every day.

adnj
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10073
Joined: February 24th, 2014, 2:55 pm

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby adnj » January 19th, 2023, 10:39 am

Ben_spanna wrote:The Kia Niro claims to have almost 20.8 km/l however i would say its more like 19km/l in our environment with our climate and this is based on mixed highway/traffic driving every day.

When you mention climate, I assume that you are referring to the increase in the use of air conditioning because of high ambient temperature and humidity.

User avatar
Dizzy28
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 16673
Joined: February 8th, 2010, 8:54 am
Location: People's Republic of Bananas

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Dizzy28 » January 19th, 2023, 10:44 am

Double digits would be a holy grail for me. Only around Nov last year I switched the display from litres per 100kms to Kms/L.

This morning my 21kms commute was done at 8.1kms/l. This is EMR and then CRH into PoS.
Generally seem to get 7.5 - 8kms/l most days. Touched 11-12kms/l during the Christmas period when mornings were clearer.

I could see a Hybrid being a possibility for me in the future. That Niro 19kms/l would knock me out !!

User avatar
Dave
3NE 2NR Moderator
Posts: 17976
Joined: April 22nd, 2003, 8:07 am
Location: playing with above and below
Contact:

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Dave » January 19th, 2023, 12:33 pm

I serviced a 2017 Tucson 2.0 and that consistently saw 10-11km/l.
They lived Santa Cruz so you get an idea of the terrain.
Choosing your tune up parts makes a difference.

User avatar
hustla_ambition101
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8078
Joined: February 1st, 2007, 1:55 pm
Location: waiting....

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby hustla_ambition101 » January 19th, 2023, 1:01 pm

Dizzy28 wrote:Double digits would be a holy grail for me. Only around Nov last year I switched the display from litres per 100kms to Kms/L.

This morning my 21kms commute was done at 8.1kms/l. This is EMR and then CRH into PoS.
Generally seem to get 7.5 - 8kms/l most days. Touched 11-12kms/l during the Christmas period when mornings were clearer.

I could see a Hybrid being a possibility for me in the future. That Niro 19kms/l would knock me out !!
You telling me.......dont want to dive into that vehicle upgrade expense but with high gas price, low gas quality and increased traffic a switch may be necessary

Bimmerhead
Street 2NR
Posts: 73
Joined: July 5th, 2013, 4:10 pm

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Bimmerhead » January 19th, 2023, 2:31 pm

Dizzy28 wrote:Double digits would be a holy grail for me. Only around Nov last year I switched the display from litres per 100kms to Kms/L.

This morning my 21kms commute was done at 8.1kms/l. This is EMR and then CRH into PoS.
Generally seem to get 7.5 - 8kms/l most days. Touched 11-12kms/l during the Christmas period when mornings were clearer.

I could see a Hybrid being a possibility for me in the future. That Niro 19kms/l would knock me out !!


Honestly felt the same way when i drove my Grand Vitara daily, if i was lucky i would average 10km/l. I Needed to switch.

Luckily with some thought and support from forums like these i was able to get some locally relevant information to assist when i upgraded. I too was interested in the Niro and Ioniq but considering the buying cost together with potential hybrid related costs, i figured it may have been better to get a very efficient gasoline vehicle.

Vehicles that made my non hybrid list (in any order) when i was looking were:

Honda City (All models are fuel efficient its js to balance initial cost)
Honda Fit
Toyota Yaris
Suzuki Swift (Newer models)
Suzuki Ciaz**
Suzuki Baleno (Newer model)

Hopefully this helps...

User avatar
nick639v2
30 pounds of Boost
Posts: 2611
Joined: November 1st, 2016, 9:46 am

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby nick639v2 » January 19th, 2023, 5:10 pm

6 month forester 2.0 15.8km/L

2 yr old np300 2.5 11.7km/L

5 year old bt50 2.2 10.2km/L

7year old fortuner 3.0 10.1km/L

pugboy
TunerGod
Posts: 25286
Joined: September 6th, 2003, 6:18 pm

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby pugboy » January 19th, 2023, 5:18 pm

these figures sounding real good
what of driving ?

nick639v2 wrote:6 month forester 2.0 15.8km/L

2 yr old np300 2.5 11.7km/L

5 year old bt50 2.2 10.2km/L

7year old fortuner 3.0 10.1km/L

User avatar
solarkh
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 198
Joined: July 14th, 2019, 8:13 pm

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby solarkh » January 19th, 2023, 8:49 pm

When we getting the new Prius in T&T?

User avatar
nick639v2
30 pounds of Boost
Posts: 2611
Joined: November 1st, 2016, 9:46 am

Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby nick639v2 » January 20th, 2023, 7:08 am

pugboy wrote:these figures sounding real good
what of driving ?

nick639v2 wrote:6 month forester 2.0 15.8km/L

2 yr old np300 2.5 11.7km/L

5 year old bt50 2.2 10.2km/L

7year old fortuner 3.0 10.1km/L


Bt50 and Np300 is what I use for work so daily Freeport to pos, or Freeport to San do and everywhere in between, back roads, grande, everything combined….I do restaurant service

Fortuner is ritual Freeport to aranguez traffic peak hours commute, highway

Forester is the baby for occasional market trips and weekend drives

Chimera
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 19194
Joined: October 11th, 2009, 4:06 pm

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Chimera » January 20th, 2023, 7:31 am

Thats a pdd black fortuner by chance?

User avatar
gastly369
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10044
Joined: May 15th, 2009, 4:40 pm
Location: trinidad

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby gastly369 » January 20th, 2023, 7:47 am

solarkh wrote:When we getting the new Prius in T&T?
Ting looks good

pugboy
TunerGod
Posts: 25286
Joined: September 6th, 2003, 6:18 pm

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby pugboy » January 20th, 2023, 7:50 am

what speed you drive at?

nick639v2 wrote:
pugboy wrote:these figures sounding real good
what of driving ?

nick639v2 wrote:6 month forester 2.0 15.8km/L

2 yr old np300 2.5 11.7km/L

5 year old bt50 2.2 10.2km/L

7year old fortuner 3.0 10.1km/L


Bt50 and Np300 is what I use for work so daily Freeport to pos, or Freeport to San do and everywhere in between, back roads, grande, everything combined….I do restaurant service

Fortuner is ritual Freeport to aranguez traffic peak hours commute, highway

Forester is the baby for occasional market trips and weekend drives

User avatar
nick639v2
30 pounds of Boost
Posts: 2611
Joined: November 1st, 2016, 9:46 am

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby nick639v2 » January 20th, 2023, 9:11 am

Speed? Well it depends on the road and my mood lol. Some days are chill and I will put on the cruise control but regular driving with the occasional zesty behavior when it’s called for

Bimmerhead
Street 2NR
Posts: 73
Joined: July 5th, 2013, 4:10 pm

Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Bimmerhead » January 23rd, 2023, 3:11 pm

By chance are you able to tell if the vehicles you drive gets better fuel economy using cruise control? This is something i always wondered, seeing its the car moderating throttle to maintain a certain speed...

Advertisement

Return to “Ole talk and more Ole talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Habit7 and 100 guests