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Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby sMASH » August 30th, 2022, 6:15 am

nervewrecker wrote:Strange they chose that fuel source and not methanol which they actually produce globally.

Demand and supply?

i stand to be corrected, but from my point of view, there is no excess production of MeOH. all has its buyers already. any off contract sales woudl be for spot sales, and that is unfeasible to even temporarily replace russian gas as fuel source.

so, there is room to expand MeOH production world wide.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby nervewrecker » August 31st, 2022, 9:06 pm

They announced construction 3 to 5 new plants about 2 weeks ago. But I don't think thats meant for here in Trinidad.

Speculation is euro bound and something to do with Russian gas and tra la la. Not much info was shared in the chat.

Isn't there a plant in Point Fortin somewhere around LNG there? Or was that ethanol? I think it was owned by a Brazilian company however.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby nervewrecker » August 31st, 2022, 9:13 pm

pugboy wrote:the aqua battery is nickel metal hydride which does not have the kick of lithium ion

I would not be surprised if those sales agent in japan swap the batteries too with old ones
they already crooked enough to roll back all the cars

anybody ever been to one of those yards where the delicensed cars(not bamboo scrapyards) are kept ?
a friend went to osaka in late 90s to bring down a 300zx, he said you can see cars as far as the eye can
What kind does the Corolla carry? Same battery?

Does check out one on mornings and it answering. But the brakes is the biggest issue on those. They does can't stop quick enough.

Horseplayed with one a day from the traffic light after pricesmart to massy roundabout and it had some traffic prior to the roundabout not too far after you pass pennywise. I didn't have issues slowing down but the Corolla started to go sideways. Had to let off my brakes to keep him from rear ending me.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby pugboy » August 31st, 2022, 9:56 pm

I think axio is same as aqua
The regular big Prius is lithium

nervewrecker wrote:
pugboy wrote:the aqua battery is nickel metal hydride which does not have the kick of lithium ion

I would not be surprised if those sales agent in japan swap the batteries too with old ones
they already crooked enough to roll back all the cars

anybody ever been to one of those yards where the delicensed cars(not bamboo scrapyards) are kept ?
a friend went to osaka in late 90s to bring down a 300zx, he said you can see cars as far as the eye can
What kind does the Corolla carry? Same battery?

Does check out one on mornings and it answering. But the brakes is the biggest issue on those. They does can't stop quick enough.

Horseplayed with one a day from the traffic light after pricesmart to massy roundabout and it had some traffic prior to the roundabout not too far after you pass pennywise. I didn't have issues slowing down but the Corolla started to go sideways. Had to let off my brakes to keep him from rear ending me.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby nervewrecker » September 1st, 2022, 9:53 am

pugboy wrote:I think axio is same as aqua
The regular big Prius is lithium

nervewrecker wrote:
pugboy wrote:the aqua battery is nickel metal hydride which does not have the kick of lithium ion

I would not be surprised if those sales agent in japan swap the batteries too with old ones
they already crooked enough to roll back all the cars

anybody ever been to one of those yards where the delicensed cars(not bamboo scrapyards) are kept ?
a friend went to osaka in late 90s to bring down a 300zx, he said you can see cars as far as the eye can
What kind does the Corolla carry? Same battery?

Does check out one on mornings and it answering. But the brakes is the biggest issue on those. They does can't stop quick enough.

Horseplayed with one a day from the traffic light after pricesmart to massy roundabout and it had some traffic prior to the roundabout not too far after you pass pennywise. I didn't have issues slowing down but the Corolla started to go sideways. Had to let off my brakes to keep him from rear ending me.
See now, allyuh like to confuse me.

Is the axio and Corolla the same vehicle?

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby redmanjp » September 1st, 2022, 2:19 pm

nervewrecker wrote:
pugboy wrote:I think axio is same as aqua
The regular big Prius is lithium

nervewrecker wrote:
pugboy wrote:the aqua battery is nickel metal hydride which does not have the kick of lithium ion

I would not be surprised if those sales agent in japan swap the batteries too with old ones
they already crooked enough to roll back all the cars

anybody ever been to one of those yards where the delicensed cars(not bamboo scrapyards) are kept ?
a friend went to osaka in late 90s to bring down a 300zx, he said you can see cars as far as the eye can
What kind does the Corolla carry? Same battery?

Does check out one on mornings and it answering. But the brakes is the biggest issue on those. They does can't stop quick enough.

Horseplayed with one a day from the traffic light after pricesmart to massy roundabout and it had some traffic prior to the roundabout not too far after you pass pennywise. I didn't have issues slowing down but the Corolla started to go sideways. Had to let off my brakes to keep him from rear ending me.
See now, allyuh like to confuse me.

Is the axio and Corolla the same vehicle?


seems so- an axio is a Corolla, but a Corolla can also be a Fielder- well i learn something today

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Corolla_(E160)

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby nervewrecker » September 1st, 2022, 6:34 pm

Has one that does not look like either. Car looks different.....wet is more like it.

Driven by.....well I never seen a human being look like that. My word!

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Bimmerhead » September 19th, 2022, 11:00 am

UPDATE!!

So i initially created this thread when i realized i needed a more fuel efficient vehicle. I was pensive to jump into HEV or CNG without fully considering all of the costs associated.

After all was said and done, I bought a Suzuki Ciaz, currently i am doing roughly 550km with 34l up from 360km with 40l in my SGV. I know there is a stigma against suzuki parts being expensive but for the price it narrowly won over the Honda City.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby adnj » September 19th, 2022, 2:15 pm

Nice!

For an average driver (20,000 kms/year), that's a savings of $5,885/year. Good luck with your new car.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Rory Phoulorie » September 19th, 2022, 2:26 pm

Bimmerhead wrote:UPDATE!!

After all was said and done, I bought a Suzuki Ciaz, currently i am doing roughly 550km with 34l up from 360km with 40l in my SGV. I know there is a stigma against suzuki parts being expensive but for the price it narrowly won over the Honda City.

Is this the bi-fuel petrol / CNG powered Ciaz?

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Bimmerhead » September 20th, 2022, 11:12 am

As far as i am aware its a basic petrol 1.4l K14 engine.

Thanks @adnj. lets see this budget :/

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby nervewrecker » September 27th, 2022, 7:09 pm

So lifespan of these batteries seem to be about a 5 years and the hybrid wave surged when the gates were opened. Seems everyone batteries starting to fail and same time.

My friends battery failed some time back and she put in a refurbished bank the dude claimed is like brand new. Paid a bit short of $14k. Now me being me has to play the role of asking the questions for her. Something I did notice is that he was very hesitant to answer questions especially since there were hints of me not being a complete idiot. I did notice cells laying around and banks dismantled, he was also hesitant to hand over her old battery bank.

My aunt and folks battery banks failed and nobody mentioned anything till yesterday. Now the dude my friend went to quoted $40k for a new bank and seems every side you look it does not seem to have any. On top that most seem to ram the refurbished bank down your gullet. Made a phonecall and sourced a bank, as funny as it sounds the BNIB bank with 3 years warranty is approx same price as what these conmen quoting for the refurb.

How many of you all had banks fail as of recent? I cant post price as iom not sure if its retail or my price (did not verify this on the phone). Next question is given the lifespan of approx 5 years and a ballpark figure of $17k which most places quoted (and out of stock) did you guys save $17k in fuel over the last 5 years?

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby pugboy » September 27th, 2022, 7:15 pm

that’s what they do at a basic level
check the voltages for weak cells and swap out cells from another pack
they claim it is like new because it
may have charged up to the right voltage but won’t have the storage capacity so will drop like a stone after some use

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby adnj » September 27th, 2022, 7:24 pm

nervewrecker wrote:So lifespan of these batteries seem to be about a 5 years and the hybrid wave surged when the gates were opened. Seems everyone batteries starting to fail and same time.

My friends battery failed some time back and she put in a refurbished bank the dude claimed is like brand new. Paid a bit short of $14k. Now me being me has to play the role of asking the questions for her. Something I did notice is that he was very hesitant to answer questions especially since there were hints of me not being a complete idiot. I did notice cells laying around and banks dismantled, he was also hesitant to hand over her old battery bank.

My aunt and folks battery banks failed and nobody mentioned anything till yesterday. Now the dude my friend went to quoted $40k for a new bank and seems every side you look it does not seem to have any. On top that most seem to ram the refurbished bank down your gullet. Made a phonecall and sourced a bank, as funny as it sounds the BNIB bank with 3 years warranty is approx same price as what these conmen quoting for the refurb.

How many of you all had banks fail as of recent? I cant post price as iom not sure if its retail or my price (did not verify this on the phone). Next question is given the lifespan of approx 5 years and a ballpark figure of $17k which most places quoted (and out of stock) did you guys save $17k in fuel over the last 5 years?


The calculations for fuel savings for the OP are earlier in the thread at about $5,800 per year. New fuel prices increased 20%, so now it's $7k per year. Assuming your battery only lasts 5 years, the cost save is $35k, more savings if longer, more savings from VAT/duty avoidance.
Last edited by adnj on September 27th, 2022, 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Cantmis » September 27th, 2022, 7:25 pm

Only buy new hybrids or evs !

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby redmanjp » September 27th, 2022, 7:38 pm

Cantmis wrote:Only buy new hybrids or evs !


seems this is the way to go to save money now that gas gone up again. the foreign used u cant trust them as they roll back mileage and u doh know how much mileage that battery went through (unless u do a 'scan'?).

but ideally it have to be with several years warranty for that hybrid battery - so which dealer offering that? toyota?

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby hover11 » September 27th, 2022, 7:40 pm

redmanjp wrote:
Cantmis wrote:Only buy new hybrids or evs !


seems this is the way to go to save money now that gas gone up again. the foreign used u cant trust them as they roll back mileage and u doh know how much mileage that battery went through (unless u do a 'scan'?).

but ideally it have to be with several years warranty for that hybrid battery - so which dealer offering that? toyota?
Buying a new car is not a way to save money though that's just debt

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby nervewrecker » September 27th, 2022, 7:46 pm

redmanjp wrote:
Cantmis wrote:Only buy new hybrids or evs !


seems this is the way to go to save money now that gas gone up again. the foreign used u cant trust them as they roll back mileage and u doh know how much mileage that battery went through (unless u do a 'scan'?).

but ideally it have to be with several years warranty for that hybrid battery - so which dealer offering that? toyota?


toyota stealership = waste of time, esp for elderly people. Worst yet of they old and stubborn. Best thing I can do is take the horse to the water, if it chooses to drink...well that is up to it. Almost all my family own hybrid vehicles and they not seeing the savings because is grocery getters they purchased and worst yet some want to drive it in EV mode alone.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby adnj » September 27th, 2022, 8:08 pm

redmanjp wrote:
Cantmis wrote:Only buy new hybrids or evs !


seems this is the way to go to save money now that gas gone up again. the foreign used u cant trust them as they roll back mileage and u doh know how much mileage that battery went through (unless u do a 'scan'?).

but ideally it have to be with several years warranty for that hybrid battery - so which dealer offering that? toyota?


Toyota hybrid battery warranty depends on where it was purchased. They range from 5 yr/100k mile to 10 yr/150k mile. The UK offers an extended 15 yr warranty.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby pugboy » September 27th, 2022, 8:20 pm

i assume you pay extra for that extended warranty as it will surely need replacing by that time

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby redmanjp » September 27th, 2022, 8:31 pm

hover11 wrote:
redmanjp wrote:
Cantmis wrote:Only buy new hybrids or evs !


seems this is the way to go to save money now that gas gone up again. the foreign used u cant trust them as they roll back mileage and u doh know how much mileage that battery went through (unless u do a 'scan'?).

but ideally it have to be with several years warranty for that hybrid battery - so which dealer offering that? toyota?
Buying a new car is not a way to save money though that's just debt


for me with an old Y10 that giving me repeated issues it would be- in the long run of course.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Musical Doc » September 28th, 2022, 11:06 am

nervewrecker wrote:So lifespan of these batteries seem to be about a 5 years and the hybrid wave surged when the gates were opened. Seems everyone batteries starting to fail and same time.

My friends battery failed some time back and she put in a refurbished bank the dude claimed is like brand new. Paid a bit short of $14k. Now me being me has to play the role of asking the questions for her. Something I did notice is that he was very hesitant to answer questions especially since there were hints of me not being a complete idiot. I did notice cells laying around and banks dismantled, he was also hesitant to hand over her old battery bank.

My aunt and folks battery banks failed and nobody mentioned anything till yesterday. Now the dude my friend went to quoted $40k for a new bank and seems every side you look it does not seem to have any. On top that most seem to ram the refurbished bank down your gullet. Made a phonecall and sourced a bank, as funny as it sounds the BNIB bank with 3 years warranty is approx same price as what these conmen quoting for the refurb.

How many of you all had banks fail as of recent? I cant post price as iom not sure if its retail or my price (did not verify this on the phone). Next question is given the lifespan of approx 5 years and a ballpark figure of $17k which most places quoted (and out of stock) did you guys save $17k in fuel over the last 5 years?


On the fb aqua page, there was someone who was quoting brand new packs, 3 different options as in 3 different types of batteries, ranging from 11000 to 15000. Can't remember if that was the installed price. I have a 2018 model so I should be bracing myself for a battery change within the next couple years

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby pugboy » September 28th, 2022, 11:14 am

you should get the pack checked out
put it under load and look for weak cells
don’t wait until they are totally dead as dead cels bring stress the other cells

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Musical Doc » September 28th, 2022, 1:23 pm

pugboy wrote:you should get the pack checked out
put it under load and look for weak cells
don’t wait until they are totally dead as dead cels bring stress the other cells


I plan to do so when I get the time. Car currently in use monday to saturday and I'm seeing to recondition a battery is average 4 days. So I have to plan how to manage that week

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Bimmerhead » September 28th, 2022, 3:58 pm

i agree with Hover11 i dont see buying a new car solely to bridge that gap as making sense. Assuming its someone taking a loan with interest, paying higher insurance costs etc. Those cost overruns including the harsh depreciation curve of new vehicles together with dealership maintenance to maintain warranty is too much for me.

My Logic was really finding a reasonably prices economical car between 1-3 years for around 100k. Options being Ioniq, City, Grace, Ciaz. (Niro was too costly & Sentra wasnt economical enough)

I was able to negotiate from 120k to 80k (Lifestyle Pre-owned) for my Ciaz and it currently gets me 15.6km/l.

With the gas light on i put 36l which is about $250 and thats about 561km putting my cost to 2.24km per $1 with out the extra costs.

After observing my co-worker's Grace on lunchruns and after work limes she gets 16.9km/l not sure how she fills her tank but assuming her reading is relatively accurate that 2.43km per $1 with the extra battery cost.

I've observed other co-workers Ioniq and she gets 18km/l again not sure how she fills her tank but assuming her reading is relatively accurate thats 2.58km per $1 with the extra battery cost.

My Grand Vitara gets 10km/l currently so thats 1.44km per $1

Disclaimer

I am not certain of their driving habits but as rough averages i believe i made a good purchase especially in light of the gas price increase.

I've also noticed persons driving Aquas and their reading shows the temperature as oppose to the instant fuel economy which baffles me because imagine buying a car to save fuel and being unaware of instant fuel economy which can assist in better driving habits and opting to see 32 degrees over your fuel efficiency.

BTW, IK Suzuki may not be the best for parts as literally everyone told me when i made my purchase but i think in my specific situation its a cost im will to accept when that time comes given my alternatives.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Musical Doc » September 28th, 2022, 4:20 pm

Bimmerhead wrote:i agree with Hover11 i dont see buying a new car solely to bridge that gap as making sense. Assuming its someone taking a loan with interest, paying higher insurance costs etc. Those cost overruns including the harsh depreciation curve of new vehicles together with dealership maintenance to maintain warranty is too much for me.

My Logic was really finding a reasonably prices economical car between 1-3 years for around 100k. Options being Ioniq, City, Grace, Ciaz. (Niro was too costly & Sentra wasnt economical enough)

I was able to negotiate from 120k to 80k (Lifestyle Pre-owned) for my Ciaz and it currently gets me 15.6km/l.

With the gas light on i put 36l which is about $250 and thats about 561km putting my cost to 2.24km per $1 with out the extra costs.

After observing my co-worker's Grace on lunchruns and after work limes she gets 16.9km/l not sure how she fills her tank but assuming her reading is relatively accurate that 2.43km per $1 with the extra battery cost.

I've observed other co-workers Ioniq and she gets 18km/l again not sure how she fills her tank but assuming her reading is relatively accurate thats 2.58km per $1 with the extra battery cost.

My Grand Vitara gets 10km/l currently so thats 1.44km per $1

Disclaimer

I am not certain of their driving habits but as rough averages i believe i made a good purchase especially in light of the gas price increase.

I've also noticed persons driving Aquas and their reading shows the temperature as oppose to the instant fuel economy which baffles me because imagine buying a car to save fuel and being unaware of instant fuel economy which can assist in better driving habits and opting to see 32 degrees over your fuel efficiency.

BTW, IK Suzuki may not be the best for parts as literally everyone told me when i made my purchase but i think in my specific situation its a cost im will to accept when that time comes given my alternatives.


You can change the display in the aqua to show different things. It does show fuel economy, so I guess its either people prefer to leave it on temperature or they don't know that it can be changed lol

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby nervewrecker » September 28th, 2022, 5:27 pm

The only reason I haven't gone ev or hybrid yet is because it's really hard to upgrade from Subaru. The handling and feeling of safety you feel behind the steering when driving that always begs the question "upgrade to what?"

Most won't use fuel economy and Subaru in the same sentence but I can use $100.00 in premium for around days fyzabad to point Lisa's and back depending on how I drive. The bigger turbo means I stay out of boost and long gears allow me to cruise. Of course it's a given I can eaisly consume $100.00 in premium fyzabad to San Fernando one way when pressing like a maniac.

Manufacturers have started to cheap out on vehicles after building a reputation with consumers. Classic case is the Aqua, Corolla, all those new Hyundai and Kia. All the air conditioners stop working and they built stupid. From what I noticed, they aren't built to last.

Hybrid / Ev is still young and it tickles my fancy a lot but they don't come in manual. Yes I agree no manual can't change gears faster than any transmission and transmission not being able to hold power is a myth, most of Dumore trucks are transmission and they haul load cross country. My pet peeve with automatic is that you not in control of your vehicle, an onboard computer is. As the tech transitions into more reliable and available options I may consider ev retrofit into a Subaru hatch. I'm of the firm belief that future cars will be like building blocks where you can swap out modules.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Bimmerhead » September 30th, 2022, 1:05 pm

I really like the Subaru XV but apart from not being able to afford it. I think thats premium and i saw a partner of mine getting 8.9km/l in his. Now he drives pretty hard but i dont think i can reasonably afford that as much as i'd like to have one.

Guess time will tell.

That Lexus CT though...NEED

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Dave » September 30th, 2022, 1:22 pm

The Subaru will yield better mileage than that when driven sensibly and even though rated for Premium will take Super once you are not redlining the engine every living chance you get. Knock sensors do work!

Yes I do operate one from time to time.

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Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby nick639v2 » September 30th, 2022, 1:40 pm

Subaru chime in here, I have the Forester. This is heavier and has the 2.0 engine. I average 7.5L/100km and that’s regular driving, not at all trying to be conservative. The transmission in these keep you around the speed limit effortlessly and I’m sure there’s some witchcraft going on because before school reopened I managed to get 810km from 55L..

Dave was it you who sent me sti trim bits on a XV?? I’m in need of that website .

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