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NIB Deficiting ON u

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How do you feel about NIB Deficiting on u

Good
1
5%
Not good
13
68%
I like to be deficited on
5
26%
 
Total votes: 19

pugboy
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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby pugboy » February 11th, 2022, 6:01 pm

^^doesnt look like he said anything about if the funds stellar performance is enough to match the number of retirees it is meant to feed.

Smoke and mirrors

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PariaMan
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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby PariaMan » February 11th, 2022, 6:07 pm

Politicians,judges and other high ip public servants pensions guaranteed without any reference to where the money coming from except that tax payers will foot the bill

The small man's pension not so much

If pension age have to increase there must be changes to their pension as well

We alone cannot suffer

pugboy
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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby pugboy » February 11th, 2022, 6:13 pm

And they themselves adjust their pensions when they feel it is not enough
And guess what, the opposition votes in full approval.

Citizens need to protest this and make noise
But which voter willing to vex their pied piper

PariaMan wrote:Politicians,judges and other high ip public servants pensions guaranteed without any reference to where the money coming from except that tax payers will foot the bill

The small man's pension not so much

If pension age have to increase there must be changes to their pension as well

We alone cannot suffer

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hover11
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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby hover11 » February 11th, 2022, 6:22 pm

Hadda mamaguy the ppl somehow the reason being the entity is still spending more than it earns with a 700 billion deficit

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hover11
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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby hover11 » February 11th, 2022, 6:27 pm

pugboy wrote:And they themselves adjust their pensions when they feel it is not enough
And guess what, the opposition votes in full approval.

Citizens need to protest this and make noise
But which voter willing to vex their pied piper

PariaMan wrote:Politicians,judges and other high ip public servants pensions guaranteed without any reference to where the money coming from except that tax payers will foot the bill

The small man's pension not so much

If pension age have to increase there must be changes to their pension as well

We alone cannot suffer
Understandable but what can they do at this point....we have 400k pensioners in the NIS system that figure is expected to double within the next decade and less contributors due to a depressed economy. Bringing self employed on will only do more harm than good. As that self employed will have fraud no if no buts no maybes

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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby DMan7 » February 11th, 2022, 6:29 pm

Too much corruption occurred over the years when things with the fund was going nice and now that things going bad actual legitimate pensioners who require it won't be getting it or have to wait until much later in their old age life to receive it. Go figure.

How much times have you guys over the years heard people who haven't even reached 60 yet receiving NIS? Or people who are not citizens receiving NIS?

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hover11
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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby hover11 » February 11th, 2022, 6:33 pm

DMan7 wrote:Too much corruption occurred over the years when things with the fund was going nice and now that things going bad actual legitimate pensioners who require it won't be getting it or have to wait until much later in their old age life to receive it. Go figure.

How much times have you guys over the years heard people who haven't even reached 60 yet receiving NIS? Or people who are not citizens receiving NIS?
You don't have to be citizen to receive NIS once you are working in this country and making at least 200 dollars a week, you are mandated to pay NIS. Ppl receiving NIS before 60 is BS as the system doesn't allow that.

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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby Redman » February 11th, 2022, 6:41 pm

hover11 wrote:Hadda mamaguy the ppl somehow the reason being the entity is still spending more than it earns with a 700 billion deficit


700 billion.
How so?

pugboy
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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby pugboy » February 11th, 2022, 6:41 pm

if you are young and have a good in demand job

it pays to work for a good company with pension plan and change jobs a few times to have a few plans built up and up to date for when you retire.

padna of mine worked in energy and shifted jobs a few times and will have it nice when he retires.

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hover11
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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby hover11 » February 11th, 2022, 7:03 pm

Redman wrote:
hover11 wrote:Hadda mamaguy the ppl somehow the reason being the entity is still spending more than it earns with a 700 billion deficit


700 billion.
How so?
My mistake 700 million.

The basics of economics if Nib pays five billion annually and collects 4.3 billion and have a shortfall of 700 million the scheme will eventually buss simple maths is either raise the contribution and or raise retirement age no wickedness or scam there.

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DMan7
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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby DMan7 » February 11th, 2022, 7:15 pm

Raise the retirement age to 70 for NIS and pension to 75. Problem solved, except it isn't because if the precedent has been set to keep increasing pension age then they would keep doing it every few years because there would always be some justification for doing so since we are notorious for being poor managers of anything.

pugboy
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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby pugboy » February 11th, 2022, 7:16 pm

so is a corresponding study ever done with the “other” pension , the “old age” pension?

how many ppl does it support and how much does it cost taxpayers every year ?

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hover11
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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby hover11 » February 11th, 2022, 7:20 pm

DMan7 wrote:Raise the retirement age to 70 for NIS and pension to 75. Problem solved, except it isn't because if the precedent has been set to keep increasing pension age then they would keep doing it every few years because there would always be some justification for doing so since we are notorious for being poor managers of anything.
Actually things got so bad because they have chosen the DO NOTHING approach , kick the can down the road,until it's someone else's problem, imbert and rowley not gonna be alive when is time for us to claim, their business fix. I always tell young ppl who now starting to work, invest in a private pension from young do not depend on the government to pay you when you reach old and can't help yourself. It have ppl since 2019 waiting for their pension.....Alright I done talk

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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby paid_influencer » February 11th, 2022, 8:12 pm

pugboy wrote:so is a corresponding study ever done with the “other” pension , the “old age” pension?

how many ppl does it support and how much does it cost taxpayers every year ?


I am supportive of any move to provide assistance based on need and not employment history.

:drinking:

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88sins
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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby 88sins » February 12th, 2022, 4:27 am

hover11 wrote:
DMan7 wrote:Raise the retirement age to 70 for NIS and pension to 75. Problem solved, except it isn't because if the precedent has been set to keep increasing pension age then they would keep doing it every few years because there would always be some justification for doing so since we are notorious for being poor managers of anything.
Actually things got so bad because they have chosen the DO NOTHING approach , kick the can down the road,until it's someone else's problem, imbert and rowley not gonna be alive when is time for us to claim, their business fix. I always tell young ppl who now starting to work, invest in a private pension from young do not depend on the government to pay you when you reach old and can't help yourself. It have ppl since 2019 waiting for their pension.....Alright I done talk

I tel people similar, but not necessarily to invest in a pension plan. Even an interest generating bank account will do
I tell people, when you get paid, no matter if it's daily, weekly, fortnightly, monthly, quarterly, or in cash or cash equivalent or dasheen or whatever. Put aside a minimum of 5% of your income and leave it alone. That's a measly $5 on every $100 you make. I believe anybody can do that, and to show what it can amount to.
A person making $4k/m, putting aside that 5%, from age 18, and retiring at 65, will have a cool $112k nest egg, and that's totally independent of your NIS or private pension contributions, and will be a lot more once you working for a better salary or increase the percentage you put aside over the years or add to it in any other way.

It's sad, that for all the free education that we have in this country, that the school system does not teach our youth anything about personal money management and financial responsibility. They leave that for parents to do, many of whom are at best clueless or at worst don't give a damn and happy to spend every cent and look for handouts when they get old and have nothing.

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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby sMASH » February 12th, 2022, 5:09 am

how does NIB raise cash besides worker contributions? i remember they bought a bunch of govt bonds or sumting back 2018/19 or so, when the MoF was boasting that his scheme was over subscribed....
the thing is, when they made that buy, they was saying they would go bust in 2022.

pugboy
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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby pugboy » February 12th, 2022, 6:14 am

they are major local stock investors
eg in rbl,witco

why u think they give witco special allowance to operate during lockdown to export etc

sMASH wrote:how does NIB raise cash besides worker contributions? i remember they bought a bunch of govt bonds or sumting back 2018/19 or so, when the MoF was boasting that his scheme was over subscribed....
the thing is, when they made that buy, they was saying they would go bust in 2022.

pugboy
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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby pugboy » February 12th, 2022, 6:36 am

I followed this advice ever since I started working,
I used to read some articles from EY guy Nigel Romano in the business guardian in 1996.
His advice was exactly this.

Unfortunately the avg person will quicker part with money to buy drinks on a friday and carnival parties and costume.

The avg working class person easily throws a staggering amount of money on alcohol and carnival every year.

88sins wrote:I tel people similar, but not necessarily to invest in a pension plan. Even an interest generating bank account will do
I tell people, when you get paid, no matter if it's daily, weekly, fortnightly, monthly, quarterly, or in cash or cash equivalent or dasheen or whatever. Put aside a minimum of 5% of your income and leave it alone. That's a measly $5 on every $100 you make. I believe anybody can do that, and to show what it can amount to.
A person making $4k/m, putting aside that 5%, from age 18, and retiring at 65, will have a cool $112k nest egg, and that's totally independent of your NIS or private pension contributions, and will be a lot more once you working for a better salary or increase the percentage you put aside over the years or add to it in any other way.

It's sad, that for all the free education that we have in this country, that the school system does not teach our youth anything about personal money management and financial responsibility. They leave that for parents to do, many of whom are at best clueless or at worst don't give a damn and happy to spend every cent and look for handouts when they get old and have nothing.

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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby sMASH » February 12th, 2022, 7:24 am

pugboy wrote:they are major local stock investors
eg in rbl,witco

why u think they give witco special allowance to operate during lockdown to export etc

sMASH wrote:how does NIB raise cash besides worker contributions? i remember they bought a bunch of govt bonds or sumting back 2018/19 or so, when the MoF was boasting that his scheme was over subscribed....
the thing is, when they made that buy, they was saying they would go bust in 2022.


they need to be a lot more aggressive in their income generations. step it up.
the working base that they get contributions from also declined as people got laid off over the years, and working less stable jobs.

f* govt made a mess of the economy and have every thing in a tail spin.

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hover11
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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby hover11 » February 12th, 2022, 7:39 am

sMASH wrote:
pugboy wrote:they are major local stock investors
eg in rbl,witco

why u think they give witco special allowance to operate during lockdown to export etc

sMASH wrote:how does NIB raise cash besides worker contributions? i remember they bought a bunch of govt bonds or sumting back 2018/19 or so, when the MoF was boasting that his scheme was over subscribed....
the thing is, when they made that buy, they was saying they would go bust in 2022.


they need to be a lot more aggressive in their income generations. step it up.
the working base that they get contributions from also declined as people got laid off over the years, and working less stable jobs.

f* govt made a mess of the economy and have every thing in a tail spin.
They need to start operating like a business and stop operating like a free for all. We understand it is social security however at the same time you cannot be spending more than you earn.

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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby pugboy » February 12th, 2022, 7:46 am

as Redman mentioned before its not so easy as pension funds around the world are suffering similar fate
and by design a pension fund will always/must go the less risky route of investment

they cant just go and invest in bitcoin


the country needs a wholescale over haul to tighten the belt across the board
from all the bobols like wasa to the empty rents paid to ferris to the prados bought for govt document delivery boys

sMASH wrote:
pugboy wrote:they are major local stock investors
eg in rbl,witco

why u think they give witco special allowance to operate during lockdown to export etc

sMASH wrote:how does NIB raise cash besides worker contributions? i remember they bought a bunch of govt bonds or sumting back 2018/19 or so, when the MoF was boasting that his scheme was over subscribed....
the thing is, when they made that buy, they was saying they would go bust in 2022.


they need to be a lot more aggressive in their income generations. step it up.
the working base that they get contributions from also declined as people got laid off over the years, and working less stable jobs.

f* govt made a mess of the economy and have every thing in a tail spin.

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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby Redman » February 12th, 2022, 8:03 am

There are creative ways to get NIB sorted.

Up collection s
Modernize investment policy.

Market and support opting out of the plan...meaning those doing well enough can opt out of receiving benefits.

I think that about 20% of the working population can afford to do this, these would be people that are at the higher levels, and live.l9nger because they have done well.

Begin addressing demographic problems.

pugboy
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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby pugboy » February 12th, 2022, 8:05 am

i know a lot of ppl who would willingly opt out
but this means less contributions to the fund.

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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby hover11 » February 12th, 2022, 8:11 am

Redman wrote:There are creative ways to get NIB sorted.

Up collection s
Modernize investment policy.

Market and support opting out of the plan...meaning those doing well enough can opt out of receiving benefits.

I think that about 20% of the working population can afford to do this, these would be people that are at the higher levels, and live.l9nger because they have done well.

Begin addressing demographic problems.
The estimated loss from employers not paying is a drop in the bucket and also one of the major delinquent employers is the government, which is like money moving from one pocket to another.Makes no sense. What they need to is revamp the system, change the benefits, it allows too much leakage. I made point earlier in the thread, a man can have 20 children with 20 different women, when he dies NiB has to pay each child at least 600 per month until age 19. That man never put that amount of money in the system.

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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby timelapse » February 12th, 2022, 8:15 am

Allyuh wrong.
Kyamalah tief out all de morney

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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby agent007 » February 12th, 2022, 8:53 am

If one has made the requisite contributions in the past and is unsuccessful at receiving entitled benefits from the NIB, can one proceed to pursue this claim legally? I am guessing the answer is yes. If the NIB loses such a case, the payout would be more than the benefit/s claim because legal fees are involved.

The NIB must re-evaluate its income and expenditure streams because they cannot play with people's benefits. For the salaried amongst us, we don't have a choice. We simply see the hundreds deducted every month and to possibly not enjoy these benefits really looks like a ponzi scheme to me.

Perhaps they should stick to retirement pensions and cut all these baby grants etc or limit it cause some people benefit from this system more than others who contribute more.

Socialist giveaways could pass through a ministry like its currently done and avoid the NIB being caught into that blood sucking system.

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hover11
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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby hover11 » February 12th, 2022, 9:04 am

agent007 wrote:If one has made the requisite contributions in the past and is unsuccessful at receiving entitled benefits from the NIB, can one proceed to pursue this claim legally? I am guessing the answer is yes. If the NIB loses such a case, the payout would be more than the benefit/s claim because legal fees are involved.

The NIB must re-evaluate its income and expenditure streams because they cannot play with people's benefits. For the salaried amongst us, we don't have a choice. We simply see the hundreds deducted every month and to possibly not enjoy these benefits really looks like a ponzi scheme to me.

Perhaps they should stick to retirement pensions and cut all these baby grants etc or limit it cause some people benefit from this system more than others who contribute more.

Socialist giveaways could pass through a ministry like its currently done and avoid the NIB being caught into that blood sucking system.
Problem with the legal case , nib has a full legal team , that will drag out the matter as long as they can,while you will have to pay your own legal costs. If you have the time and money that's no problem, then they could be badmind and simply declare bankruptcy to discourage futher legal repercussions. Agreed on the latter part, certain things need to be cut like special maternity grant and surviviors if you are common law. That is bleeding the system dry.

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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby Redman » February 12th, 2022, 10:50 am

pugboy wrote:i know a lot of ppl who would willingly opt out
but this means less contributions to the fund.


To be frank, I would opt out but still contribute.
Someone who has done well, and has things in place, while contributing at the highest level will probably live to a ripe age, and also pull out more.

Make the contribution, cuz if NIB collapses, what's the value of every other part of the asset base?

Real estate will take a hit
The currency will take a hit
Quality of life across the board will take a hit

We all in the same boat

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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby hover11 » February 12th, 2022, 10:59 am

Redman wrote:
pugboy wrote:i know a lot of ppl who would willingly opt out
but this means less contributions to the fund.


To be frank, I would opt out but still contribute.
Someone who has done well, and has things in place, while contributing at the highest level will probably live to a ripe age, and also pull out more.

Make the contribution, cuz if NIB collapses, what's the value of every other part of the asset base?

Real estate will take a hit
The currency will take a hit
Quality of life across the board will take a hit

We all in the same boat
Is this why the government of the day saved clico due to the ramifications that would have occurred ?

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Re: NIB Deficiting ON u

Postby Country_Bookie » February 12th, 2022, 11:33 am

The minimum National Insurance Retirement Pension was increased from $2,000.00 to $3,000.00 per month with effect from February 1, 2012. This was a measure announced in the 2011/2012 Budget presented by the Honourable Winston Dookeran, Minister of Finance in October of last year


https://www.finance.gov.tt/2012/04/04/m ... increased/

The fund needed increased contributions since 2010 as was pointed out earlier in the thread. Instead of making that happen when the country had resources to do so, the PP government chose to increase payouts by 50% in 2012.

A Pension system is designed to accumulate contributions while the employee is working and the Pension they receive at retirement is then based on what they contributed over their working life.

If you increase everyone's pension by 50% overnight, it needs to be funded by additional contributions. The PP government never put any additional money into the fund, despite more than having the capacity to do that with the energy revenues the country was earning. Once u take out more than u put in, you'll have a deficit.

PNM has not done anything to address this over the past 7 years either, probably because the minister doesn't understand how the fund works. Imagine the highest salary range in their contribution schedule is 8,000. This is very outdated as most professionals earn more than that. They need to revamp the structure of contributions so the people that earn the highest salaries contribute a higher percentage as they are the ones best able to afford contributing more. Doing this while freezing the Pension will return the fund to solvency.

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