Energy Policy-Why Not Nuclear Power for TnT?

[adnj]

Depends when the Nat Gas runs out -reserves vs usage.

Depends on how soon we can scale up Solar to meet the demand in 20 whenever.

@teems- i thought we on take or pay with TGU and Powergen?

What about wind farms on the east coast of Trinidad?

Putting the generation on the East coast with Demand on the west coast might mean a transmission network.
How much Wind power can we generate at peak load hours would be another hurdle-
How much wind power can we generate in terms of the space we have and the issues that come with that infrastructure.
I think its about 1.2M USD per MW in Turbine cost-as a GENERAL rule of thumb.

Im on record that Nuclear is something that we need to look at if it is that Nat Gas over the long term is becoming questionable- one site has us at 14 years of NG reserves at pre covid levels.

Wind speed necessary for electrical generation - about 7 mph. Trinidad's year-round average speed - about 15 mph.

Water speed necessary for tidal stream generators - about 2.5 mph. Average speed of the Gulf Stream near Trinidad - about 4 mph and nearly constant.

A similarly sized tidal stream generator produces ten times the energy output of a wind turbine.

Tidal and wind electrical generation costs are similar but tidal may have a larger lifetime maintenance cost.

Solar and wind generation can be distributed and grid-tied at the consumers' home or business.

[pugboy]

can private consortiums setup their own turbines ?
or is the wind owned by govt like how wasa owns all ground water

[agent007]

With 2367.1MW of capacity, how much is actually being utilized at the moment? Based on what I understand, we have excess supply ever since Alutrint got the axe and TGU entered the grid.

So unfortunately any means to introduce wind, tidal and solar to our supply would affect the long-term strategy for POWERGEN and TGU etc.

Unless like WASA does for water, T&TEC decides to apply a similar costing on all solar derived electricity to our homes and businesses which must be meterized for tracking purpose and we pay a fee/rate per kWh used.

Then the business model of T&TEC et al may have to change to go into this type of business because on one end we talking savings and then on the other hand, tax payers may have to bail out these entities eventually.

From a reduced carbon footprint standpoint, I say do not ramp up capacity at any power plant, instead, slowly put reliance on solar and wind etc to add to the overall MW figure. So let POWERGEN, union estate etc finance the windmills etc.

Or let's give the smelter the green light and a huge recycling plant to utilize our MW potential and leave solar and wind to handle a chunk of residential customers.

I talking chit or I making some sense here?

[Redman]

I think you right agent...we paying for it...how do we max the benefit of that excess electricity.



Getting up to grid level through solar and or wind ignores the fact that we cannot control the volume generation, the time of peak generation and how these relate to the peak demand hrs.

So batteries will have to be implemented....

Ignoring where we are, in battery tech....the cost and space required, we will need to generate enough to meet current demand...and also to recharge batteries.

So we then need to generate More than 100%+ of demand in order to be able to have excess supply to charge batteries.

Same principle for wind...

[88sins]

can private consortiums setup their own turbines ?
or is the wind owned by govt like how wasa owns all ground water

WASA doesn't just own all ground water, WASA owns ALL water in T&T, including rainwater. Yeah, it dat dred, I couldn't believe it first time I read it either.
I suppose it can be done. But don't be amazed if legislation gets passed so they have to pay the gortt for it. What kills it tho, is the power storage system. Power needs to be reliable and consistent. When windspeeds drop, last thing you want is low or no power on the grid.

[adnj]

can private consortiums setup their own turbines ?
or is the wind owned by govt like how wasa owns all ground water

WASA doesn't just own all ground water, WASA owns ALL water in T&T, including rainwater. Yeah, it dat dred, I couldn't believe it first time I read it either.
I suppose it can be done. But don't be amazed if legislation gets passed so they have to pay the gortt for it. What kills it tho, is the power storage system. Power needs to be reliable and consistent. When windspeeds drop, last thing you want is low or no power on the grid.

There is no current T&TEC licensing requirement for building a turbine. The Electrical Inspectorate would likely get involved just to certify safety and segregation from the electrical grid the same way that generators are certified. There is no mechanism that I know of to sell excess energy to the utility, either.

WASA does not regulate rainwater that falls on a building's roof. It does regulate groundwater, however. There have been recent pushes for rainwater harvesting systems (RWH) in Trinidad and the rest of the Caribbean to address potable water shortages.

Excess electricity storage does not necessarily require a battery bank, either. Current systems in use include compressed air, electrolytic hydrogen and raised water/turbine storage systems.

Plum Mitan to harvest rainwater

RIA CHAITRAM MONDAY 19 AUGUST 2019

THE PEOPLE of Plum Mitan, nestled in the countryside of east Trinidad, are happy that they will now have a constant supply of water, thanks to three months of training in rainwater harvesting.

https://newsday.co.tt/2019/08/19/plum-m ... rainwater/

Meteorologist: Harvest rain to solve water shortages

SHANE SUPERVILLE TUESDAY 10 MARCH 2020

In an effort to increase water conservation while meeting the daily demand, acting chief climatologist for Met Services Kenneth Kerr suggests the public increases efforts to harvest rainwater for their daily needs.

https://newsday.co.tt/2020/03/10/meteor ... shortages/

[4kin4kar]

With 2367.1MW of capacity, how much is actually being utilized at the moment? Based on what I understand, we have excess supply ever since Alutrint got the axe and TGU entered the grid.

So unfortunately any means to introduce wind, tidal and solar to our supply would affect the long-term strategy for POWERGEN and TGU etc.

Unless like WASA does for water, T&TEC decides to apply a similar costing on all solar derived electricity to our homes and businesses which must be meterized for tracking purpose and we pay a fee/rate per kWh used.

Then the business model of T&TEC et al may have to change to go into this type of business because on one end we talking savings and then on the other hand, tax payers may have to bail out these entities eventually.

From a reduced carbon footprint standpoint, I say do not ramp up capacity at any power plant, instead, slowly put reliance on solar and wind etc to add to the overall MW figure. So let POWERGEN, union estate etc finance the windmills etc.

Or let's give the smelter the green light and a huge recycling plant to utilize our MW potential and leave solar and wind to handle a chunk of residential customers.

I talking chit or I making some sense here?

2367.1MW, where did you get this figure from Sir? TGU is running at max with 700 MW

[agent007]

Scroll up and you will see the tally

[adnj]

Nuclear fusion reactor could be here as soon as 2025


A viable nuclear fusion reactor — one that spits out more energy than it consumes — could be here as soon as 2025.

That's the takeaway of seven new studies, published Sept. 29 in the Journal of Plasma Physics.

If a fusion reactor reaches that milestone, it could pave the way for massive generation of clean energy. 

During fusion, atomic nuclei are forced together to form heavier atoms. When the mass of the resulting atoms is less than the mass of the atoms that went into their creation, the excess mass is converted to energy, liberating an extraordinary amount of light and heat. Fusion powers the sun and stars, as the mighty gravity at their hearts fuse hydrogen to create helium.


https://www.livescience.com/amp/nuclear ... -2025.html

[Redman]

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-wo ... 2018-2040/

[sMASH]

can private consortiums setup their own turbines ?
or is the wind owned by govt like how wasa owns all ground water

WASA doesn't just own all ground water, WASA owns ALL water in T&T, including rainwater. Yeah, it dat dred, I couldn't believe it first time I read it either.
I suppose it can be done. But don't be amazed if legislation gets passed so they have to pay the gortt for it. What kills it tho, is the power storage system. Power needs to be reliable and consistent. When windspeeds drop, last thing you want is low or no power on the grid.

thats my problem with wind in trinidad; its too variable. some times the wind dead dead dead for hours, night time usually dead, but other times it hard like dat, but still variable.
most big systems SUFFER from variability in performance. think abut the varied acceleration, but think about it applied to significant masses in the turbine and blades. the life spans will be a lot less than expected and i guess, may not give any additional savings. like by the time it makes a profit, time to buy a new one cause this one mash up.

ocean currents, from mayaro to the bocas seems a lot more reliable. or u can even go out further in the atlantic like where the rigs are. the ocean currents SHOULD be a lot more consistent out there. not using wave current, but instead ocean current... like an undersea wind farm

i think both ventures justifies separate feasiblity test projects... set up one example of each and see how they perform.

[Redman]

Solar and Wind are yet to solve the hard reality governing their usefulness...availability.
The Energy Information Administration. table below has the capacity factors for various fuels.
Right now wind and solar are at sub 35% of their capacity....Australia is experiencing similar variance between nameplate capacity and actual results.

To solve this yo have to have exponentially more Nameplate capacity AND storage....both expensive and consume land space.

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly ... pmt_6_07_b

[shaneelal]

Jamaica signs agreements with Canadian companies to develop nuclear technology

October 23, 2024

Jamaica has signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with two Canada-based companies for the advancement of nuclear technologies adoption here.

Prime Minister Andrew Holness, said the partnership with Atomic Energy of Canada Limited and Canadian Nuclear Laboratories Limited reflects his government’s unwavering commitment to diversify the country’s energy portfolio with new, clean and sustainable alternatives.

“(It) marks a pivotal moment in Jamaica’s energy transformation as we take a bold and forward-thinking step by signing this Memorandum of Understanding. This move is about reducing your cost of living, a major part of it being the cost of energy,” he told the signing ceremony.

Prime Minister Holness said countries such as Canada and France are using nuclear power as a potential solution to energy issues and climate change in a safe and effective manner.

He said that France generates approximately 68 per cent of its electricity from nuclear power, adding that this source accounts for 15 per cent of Canada’s energy output with the country also being known for maintaining uncompromising nuclear standards.

“These examples show that with proper regulation of the technology and the embrace of technological advancement, nuclear can be a game changer. In fact, today’s nuclear technology, especially small modular reactors, is far safer and more adaptable than it was in the past.”

Holness said that small modular nuclear reactors offer enhanced safety features, reduced environmental impact and a cost-effective solution for small countries like Jamaica.

He said that taking advantage of the technology, which is rapidly developing, will provide long-term benefits for Jamaica over time.

“Of course, there are those who are going to say, why not wait until this technology is mature. The problem is that anything that has to do with nuclear requires a long period of time and it requires the development of local capabilities.

“ If you don’t do it now, then not only will you have to import the capital and the actual small modular nuclear reactor, you’re going to have to import the technological skills and expertise as well, which will increase the cost of deployment. So Jamaica has to see what is going to come in the future,” the Prime Minister said.

Regarding safety, Holness said that the technology has advanced over the years, noting that modern nuclear reactors are designed with fail-safe mechanisms that significantly reduce the risk of accidents.

“We know that safety is at the forefront of everyone’s minds when it comes to nuclear energy, and rightly so. But I want to emphasise that nuclear energy today is not what it was even a decade ago. For modern nuclear reactors, particularly small modular nuclear, we know that some of the designs shut down automatically.”

Holness said that as part of the exploration, work will be undertaken with global experts to ensure that every aspect of nuclear energy, particularly waste management, is handled with the highest international standards.

“Countries like Finland and Sweden have developed world-class systems for safety in terms of storing nuclear waste, and we will draw on their experience to ensure that Jamaica follows the best practices for protecting the environment and our people,” he stated.

The Prime Minister said that Jamaica’s journey with nuclear technology began in 1984 with the establishment of the Caribbean’s first and only nuclear reactor at the University of the West Indies (UWI), Mona, with European Union (EU) support.

He said the facility is operated by the International Centre for Environmental and Nuclear Science (ICENS) and has been a beacon of nuclear research for four decades, advancing studies in agriculture, health and environmental protection.

Holness also disclosed that the government is taking a comprehensive approach to diversifying Jamaica’s energy security, noting that 85 per cent of Jamaica’s energy is derived from fossil fuels, which he described as, “a dependency that leaves us vulnerable to external shocks and global oil and natural gas price fluctuations.

“We have already made great strides in diversifying our energy mix. We have done exceptionally well in integrating solar, wind and natural gas and we do have some hydroelectric power… but there is far more to be done. Given Jamaica’s current energy demands, we are cognisant that there has to be a very well-thought-out mix… that is not subject to intermittency, and nuclear offers that as well,” Holness said.

He said also that Jamaica has commenced exploring the development of pumped hydro storage and waste to energy alternatives for power generation.

Meanwhile, Science, Energy, Telecommunications and Transport Minister Daryl Vaz, said a key aspect of the agreement is the exchange of scientists, engineers and other specialists.

“This collaboration will foster the sharing of knowledge, skills and best practices, driving innovation in research, development and practical applications. Together we will build out a network of expertise that will benefit both Jamaica and Canada. Through organised seminars and meetings, we will ensure that our professionals remain at the forefront of nuclear technology and its peaceful applications,” he said.

Canadian Nuclear Laboratories Limited Board Director, Howard Shearer, said the discussions initiated with Prime Minister Holness last year aim to diversify, among other things, Jamaica’s energy mix.

President and Chief Executive Officer for Atomic Energy of Canada Limited, Fred Dermarker, said the partnership will advance ongoing discussions on nuclear science and related technologies.

“This event (MoU signing) is a testament of the strong and enduring relationship between our nations,” he added.

KINGSTON, Jamaica, Oct 23, CMC

https://www.cnc3.co.tt/jamaica-signs-ag ... echnology/

[gastly369]

Ehhhh... We going back to pitch oil lamp and walking... Bout advancement

[wing]

Nuclear power in Trinidad?

[pugboy]

who trusting state employees to run dat

[sMASH]

Nuclear power in Trinidad?

Screenshot_2024-10-23-19-57-42-955_com.google.android.googlequicksearchbox-edit.jpg

If in the hands of pnm operations , like paria and niquan , then yes.
If in the hands of the actual competence here, it woukd be as safe and unassuming as universal cereal company .

Bring nuclear !

Operations manager at trindad nuclear power generation company , sounds like a nice title to have.

[pugboy]

imagine some crap happen and we saddled with storing large amounts of radioactive water for centuries like japan
cant just dump into the neighbourhood box drain outside

Nuclear power in Trinidad?Screenshot_2024-10-23-19-57-42-955_com.google.android.googlequicksearchbox-edit.jpg

If in the hands of pnm operations , like paria and niquan , then yes.
If in the hands of the actual competence here, it woukd be as safe and unassuming as universal cereal company .

Bring nuclear !

Operations manager at trindad nuclear power generation company , sounds like a nice title to have.

[j.o.e]

Wasn’t this the same country that was against an aluminum smelter ?

[zoom rader]

Wasn’t this the same country that was against an aluminum smelter ?

PNM have a failure rate of industrial plants and they should not be in any business that allows square PNM pegs tobe in round holes.

What the fvct does an aluminum smelter have to do with a nuclear plant ?

The issue with the aluminum smelter was the PNM corruption and no country willing to take the pot liners.

I for one do not agree with any nuclear plant in Trinidad cause the people here are not disciplined to operate that kind of plant. Trinidad is filled with short cut workers and they do not take ownership of their jobs.

The risk of a nuclear plant on a small island is a major disaster, one mishap and the islands is wiped off.

No Nuclear plants fvck PNM

[sMASH]

imagine some crap happen and we saddled with storing large amounts of radioactive water for centuries like japan
cant just dump into the neighbourhood box drain outside

Nuclear power in Trinidad?Screenshot_2024-10-23-19-57-42-955_com.google.android.googlequicksearchbox-edit.jpg

If in the hands of pnm operations , like paria and niquan , then yes.
If in the hands of the actual competence here, it woukd be as safe and unassuming as universal cereal company .

Bring nuclear !

Operations manager at trindad nuclear power generation company , sounds like a nice title to have.

That's why proper design is key.
With current experience , we could design some pretty safe systems .

[FrankChag]

Just.. no.

Putting a nuclear plant in a 3rd-world country is a very bad idea.

3/4 people here would not have heard of Chernobyl or 3-mile island without the movies.

Know your strengths ppl.. stick with Carnival, doubles, and picong.

make it big on tiktok and migrate.

just.. no.

[Les Bain]

Nuclear power in Trinidad?Screenshot_2024-10-23-19-57-42-955_com.google.android.googlequicksearchbox-edit.jpg

If in the hands of pnm operations , like paria and niquan , then yes.
If in the hands of the actual competence here, it woukd be as safe and unassuming as universal cereal company .

Bring nuclear !

Operations manager at trindad nuclear power generation company , sounds like a nice title to have.

The Paria divers is a strong case against this. One mishap and it will be downplayed into oblivion while everybody from President to pauper is glowing green, melting and blaming Kamla for bringing nuclear power to Trinidad.

[bluefete]

Wasn’t this the same country that was against an aluminum smelter ?

PNM have a failure rate of industrial plants and they should not be in any business that allows square PNM pegs to be in round holes.

What the fvct does an aluminum smelter have to do with a nuclear plant ?

The issue with the aluminum smelter was the PNM corruption and no country willing to take the pot liners.

I for one do not agree with any nuclear plant in Trinidad cause the people here are not disciplined to operate that kind of plant. Trinidad is filled with short cut workers and they do not take ownership of their jobs.

The risk of a nuclear plant on a small island is a major disaster, one mishap and the islands is wiped off.

No Nuclear plants fvck PNM

This right here. Best example of why not!

[pugboy]

imagine having unionized workers

[j.o.e]

Wasn’t this the same country that was against an aluminum smelter ?

PNM have a failure rate of industrial plants and they should not be in any business that allows square PNM pegs tobe in round holes.

What the fvct does an aluminum smelter have to do with a nuclear plant ?

The issue with the aluminum smelter was the PNM corruption and no country willing to take the pot liners.

I for one do not agree with any nuclear plant in Trinidad cause the people here are not disciplined to operate that kind of plant. Trinidad is filled with short cut workers and they do not take ownership of their jobs.

The risk of a nuclear plant on a small island is a major disaster, one mishap and the islands is wiped off.

No Nuclear plants fvck PNM

Most people had concerns over the environmental impact of the fluoride and other wastes.

[zoom rader]

Wasn’t this the same country that was against an aluminum smelter ?

PNM have a failure rate of industrial plants and they should not be in any business that allows square PNM pegs tobe in round holes.

What the fvct does an aluminum smelter have to do with a nuclear plant ?

The issue with the aluminum smelter was the PNM corruption and no country willing to take the pot liners.

I for one do not agree with any nuclear plant in Trinidad cause the people here are not disciplined to operate that kind of plant. Trinidad is filled with short cut workers and they do not take ownership of their jobs.

The risk of a nuclear plant on a small island is a major disaster, one mishap and the islands is wiped off.

No Nuclear plants fvck PNM

Most people had concerns over the environmental impact of the fluoride and other wastes.

Nope, it was the way PNM tried to hook wink the population with the pot liners when other countries refused to accept it.

[zoom rader]

imagine having unionized workers

Unionize or not, they all PNM

[sMASH]

Nuclear power in Trinidad?Screenshot_2024-10-23-19-57-42-955_com.google.android.googlequicksearchbox-edit.jpg

If in the hands of pnm operations , like paria and niquan , then yes.
If in the hands of the actual competence here, it woukd be as safe and unassuming as universal cereal company .

Bring nuclear !

Operations manager at trindad nuclear power generation company , sounds like a nice title to have.

The Paria divers is a strong case against this. One mishap and it will be downplayed into oblivion while everybody from President to pauper is glowing green, melting and blaming Kamla for bringing nuclear power to Trinidad.

That's the thing. In pt lisas there are projects many times more complex than the paria divers job , that are handled very often, and go off sans incident .

Like regular average work day, like a week is as cumulatively complex as that diver job.

We have plenty people could handle that.


Case in point: niquan blow up multiple times with the pnm affiliated structure . They hired the best of the best locals and within a year plant produced no incidents.

And updated tech, the fissile material is very secure in with good fail safe devices ... It not that dangerous.



Look at submarines ... They operate quite well in even more complex conditions .




I wah operate a nuke plant.

[nervewrecker]

Too much to read, we setting up a solar farm right now. BP project iirc, executed by D2f.

Nuclear Is a definite yes from me. We keep looking at plants built decades ago and we have fears of local management. Do you all know we have plants jointly owned by companies like Mitsubishi? Iirc CGCL is part owed by Mitsubishi, massy has shares in it and I'm not sure how much we own. I think proman bought majority shares in TGU as well, open to correction. Also Atlantic LNG is part owned by shell iirc. Most of these places have really good management that simply will not tolerate the kind of nonsense we accustomed to.

In this day and age there is automation and redundancies for instance of failures. Monitoring and feedback devices are also far more accurate and efficient than what existing here decades ago. Manpower is only needed for general maintenance and manual labor, nothing more. Done right the incident of a meltdown should be never.

Diverting gas from power generation means more gas for sale and more gas for point Lisas. Gas for point lisas means jobs for people.