Future of Caribbean Airlines

[hover11]

Didn't CAL state that they lose 40k on each Tobago flight regardless if the plane is filled to capacity or not

[timothymcdavid]

^ In July of this year CAL stated that the cost per flight hour on the Tobago route is US$17,306. https://tt.loopnews.com/content/cal-see ... -airbridge

Those ATRs hold what 70 persons? You do the math

Didn't CAL state that they lose 40k on each Tobago flight regardless if the plane is filled to capacity or not

There are lies ... then they are damn lies ... then there are statistics.

That operating cost needs to be thoroughly examined for all its constituent components and offset against what should be the cost of cargo between Trinbago as well that is on those flights.

I am no fan of subsidies but inefficiencies in ministries, state enterprises and utilities need to be addressed with the similar vigor that costs are increased on the taxpayer and consumers.

[MaxPower]

Pay up Trinis and run along.

What else can allyuh do?

#bobolees

[Dohplaydat]

^ In July of this year CAL stated that the cost per flight hour on the Tobago route is US$17,306. https://tt.loopnews.com/content/cal-see ... -airbridge

Those ATRs hold what 70 persons? You do the math

Didn't CAL state that they lose 40k on each Tobago flight regardless if the plane is filled to capacity or not

There are lies ... then they are damn lies ... then there are statistics.

That operating cost needs to be thoroughly examined for all its constituent components and offset against what should be the cost of cargo between Trinbago as well that is on those flights.

I am no fan of subsidies but inefficiencies in ministries, state enterprises and utilities need to be addressed with the similar vigor that costs are increased on the taxpayer and consumers.

We don't have the information to properly assess what the actual cost per person for the air bridge actually is, though I recall either Imbet or CAL's CEO saying they needed to charge $800 TTD to break even.

Some services to need to be subsidized though and this might be one (for Tobago's economy), obviously CAL's inefficiencies are keeping this higher than it is but whatever.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Caribbean Airlines resumes flights to Caracas

[MaxPower]

Fantastic news.

Vacay here i come!

Really loving this overdue connectivity between our neighbors.

Safe travels everyone!

[Rory Phoulorie]

Fantastic news.

Vacay here i come!

Really loving this overdue connectivity between our neighbors.

Safe travels everyone!

Max,

Can you please ask your peeps how things are over in Margarita Island? That place used to be a nice budget-friendly place to go on a vacation.

Thanks.

[Dave]

Hi Rory,

The charters have started and I saw on social media where some ppl went and put up videos of their stay.
Seems some of the places have modernised and nothing seems lacking.

I myself have the same thoughts as you.

[pugboy]

are they still stealing the toilet paper off the plane lavatories ?

[Habit7]

Somebody must buss on this route, it is just a matter of who first.

[Dohplaydat]

Somebody must buss on this route, it is just a matter of who first.


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Can't imagine that many trinis wanna go Puerto Rico

[Habit7]

Frontier will be flying jets direct from SJU to POS while CAL using an ATR via BGI.

Plus with Frontier, SJU is a hub for other destinations

[david12]

I feel CAL will buss on that route just from the difference in base fares. Frontier will charge for anything extra (priority boarding, seat selection etc.) but I'm sure it'll still be cheaper to fly with them especially when it's families. Once enough people start talking it's only a matter of time.

[Dohplaydat]

Frontier will be flying jets direct from SJU to POS while CAL using an ATR via BGI.

Plus with Frontier, SJU is a hub for other destinations
IMG_0405.jpeg

God the ATR, that's gonna suck.

CAL really should be looking at a South American airport, Rio or Bogata would be great.

Or a Qatar, Dubai or Europe/UK airport. That opens up a lot for trinis

[pugboy]

but that’s what they bought atr for
to do these medium range
trips

[Dizzy28]

Frontier will be flying jets direct from SJU to POS while CAL using an ATR via BGI.

Plus with Frontier, SJU is a hub for other destinations
IMG_0405.jpeg

God the ATR, that's gonna suck.

CAL really should be looking at a South American airport, Rio or Bogata would be great.

Or a Qatar, Dubai or Europe/UK airport. That opens up a lot for trinis

You calling a wishlist of places you want to go and not necessarily places that would make sense for CAl.
On Bogota and Rio CAL goes up against COPA who not only has twice daily flights to those destinations they also have daily flights to POS. They have the ability to use thier hub and aggregate much bigger loads from thier much bigger network.

UK was tried and buss as recently as the 2010s and even the Emirati airlines not flying to Caribbean but our profit suspect airline would do that route?

[Dohplaydat]

Frontier will be flying jets direct from SJU to POS while CAL using an ATR via BGI.

Plus with Frontier, SJU is a hub for other destinations
IMG_0405.jpeg

God the ATR, that's gonna suck.

CAL really should be looking at a South American airport, Rio or Bogata would be great.

Or a Qatar, Dubai or Europe/UK airport. That opens up a lot for trinis

You calling a wishlist of places you want to go and not necessarily places that would make sense for CAl.
On Bogota and Rio CAL goes up against COPA who not only has twice daily flights to those destinations they also have daily flights to POS. They have the ability to use thier hub and aggregate much bigger loads from thier much bigger network.

UK was tried and buss as recently as the 2010s and even the Emirati airlines not flying to Caribbean but our profit suspect airline would do that route?

Copa doesn't go direct to Rio from Piarco so that's a plus there for cal. Not saying it's a great idea but I think it's feasible.

The UK route was poorly implemented at the time.

We can do a POS-LGW- Frankfurt twice a week.

The Emirates and Qatar airways have much more profitable routes before they even consider a Caribbean route.

But a route to there opens up the whole Asian market for us much more easily.

[Habit7]

POS to LGW on CAL cannot compete with POS to LGW and TAB to LGW that BA offers. Plus there is POS to AMS too on KLM.

Ppl will choose BA and KLM over CAL because they will offer connecting flights within Europe/Asia/Africa that CAL cannot do. Plus they are a part of frequent flyer rewards program that can't compare to CAL's. CAL's only hope is with the diaspora travelling based off of patriotism and that is not enough to keep the route afloat.

But they did announce that they will be either using an ERJ to go to Rio or partnering with GOL.

[triniterribletim]

Frontier will be flying jets direct from SJU to POS while CAL using an ATR via BGI.

Plus with Frontier, SJU is a hub for other destinations
IMG_0405.jpeg

God the ATR, that's gonna suck.

CAL really should be looking at a South American airport, Rio or Bogata would be great.

Or a Qatar, Dubai or Europe/UK airport. That opens up a lot for trinis

No one wants to fly into GIG. GRU is where all the connections are and where all the business is. Plus from GRU you can get to anywhere else in Brazil, South America and the rest of the world. São Paulo is much more well positioned to cater to Trini leisure and business travel. Bogotá would be great as well, but Avianca has had a rough run in most Caribbean destinations. If the king of South American low cost can't make it work, I'm not sure BW can.

[triniterribletim]

Somebody must buss on this route, it is just a matter of who first.


IMG_0403.jpeg

IMG_0404.jpeg

Can't imagine that many trinis wanna go Puerto Rico

Frontier's base price is 100 USD round trip. That is weekend lime and comeback money if you have a US visa. Just go with a small bag with a change of clothes and enjoy yourself and come back. Treat Frontier like traveling on a bus.

[aaron17]

the future of tnt....grim

[st7]

the future of tnt....grim

in what context?

[Habit7]

CAL faces competition on Puerto Rico route
by Brent Pinheiro

20240503


One day after local carrier Caribbean Airlines announced its introduce service to San Juan, Puerto Rico out of Trinidad, American ultra-low cost carrier Frontier Airlines yesterday announced its intention to operate a similar route.

The airline is offering a one-way fare of US$29 from Puerto Rico to Trinidad and from Trinidad to Puerto Rico, the lowest fare is US$79.

Starting July 11 2024, Frontier Airlines plans to fly nonstop between Trinidad’s Piarco International Airport (POS) and Puerto Rico’s Luis Muñoz Marin International Airport (SJU) three times a week using its Airbus A320 aircraft.

As an ultra-low cost airline, Frontier’s aircraft are configured with high-density seating of up to 186 seats on its Airbus A320 fleet.

Fares are also unbundled, which means that customers pay separately for ancillary services such as seat assignments, hand luggage, checked baggage and inflight products.

On Sundays, Thursday and Fridays, F9281 departs SJU at 12:11pm arriving in POS at 2:02 PM. The return flight, F9280, departs POS at 3:14pm arriving in Puerto Rico at 5:07pm.

On Wednesday, CAL announced plans to fly to Puerto Rico from Port-of-Spain, via Barbados on Tuesdays, Fridays and Sundays from July 14, 2024. . The return flights, also via Barbados, operate on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Saturdays.

Flights will be operated by Caribbean Airlines’ ATR 72-600s with 68 to 72 economy-class seats. The tickets went on sale yesterday, with its lowest prices starting at US$192 one way from Trinidad.

Both airlines require the approval of the Trinidad & Tobago Civil Aviation Authority. CAL also needs regulatory approval of the Barbados government.

Frontier Airlines is a new entrant to T&T’s aviation sector, but operates flights to 11 other destinations in the Caribbean out of its Puerto Rico hub. T&T is the airline’s 12th Caribbean destination.

Frontier Airlines’ network and operations design VP, Josh Flyr said, "We are thrilled to begin serving consumers as they travel to and from Trinidad, the latest addition in our rapidly expanding operations across the Caribbean. By providing affordable and convenient travel to Port of Spain, we are pleased to be a valuable partner in the island’s vital and vibrant tourism industry.”

Also commenting on the news, general manager of Airports Authority of Trinidad and Tobago’s Hayden Newton says, “We are delighted to have Frontier Airlines flying to our islands as we continue to increase the ease with which we connect travelers to the world.”

Commenting on the news, Caribbean Airlines’ CEO Garvin Medera said “We are excited to expand our passenger and cargo services to San Juan, Puerto Rico, as part of our ongoing effort to better connect the Caribbean. This move is crucial to our growth strategy and represents our commitment to offering our customers convenient and reliable travel and trade options."

This would be the sixth North American destination for Caribbean Airlines. The others are Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando, New York and Toronto.

CAL was granted a foreign air carrier permit by the US Department of Transportation for Puerto Rico and several other routes on September 21, 2023. The airline chose not to launch the flights last year. Instead, the majority state-owned airline focussed on building out its Eastern Caribbean services in a bid to fill the void left by LIAT (1974).

Passengers holding T&T passports require a visa to fly to Puerto Rico, which is an unincorporated territory of the United States.

Comparing CAL and Frontier

All-in fares*US$393.60*US$488.33^

Start date*July 14*July 11

Aircraft*ATR 72-600*Airbus A320

Seats*68 to 72*up to 186

Travel time*4 hours and 10 minutes*1 hour and 51 minutes

Route*One stop (through B'dos)*Non-stop

^All-in fares include seat selection, hand luggage, checked baggage and inflight products such as drinks and snacks.

https://www.guardian.co.tt/business/cal ... c863caac59

[pugboy]

high density seating lol
ppl over 5’6” need not travel on frontier

[Dizzy28]

high density seating lol
ppl over 5’6” need not travel on frontier

I was thinking it can't be that bad but the seat pitch of a Frontier economy seat is less than a Standard ATR72. Frontier's economy seats are wider though.

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Front ... 320neo.php

[pugboy]

good for fat short ppl then

high density seating lol
ppl over 5’6” need not travel on frontier

I was thinking it can't be that bad but the seat pitch of a Frontier economy seat is less than a Standard ATR72. Frontier's economy seats are wider though.

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Front ... 320neo.php

[Habit7]

Yea but for a 2hr flight less than US$200 return over CAL’s 4hr flight, I would endure it.

Worst yet Frontier flying to BGI too, so apparently CAL rush to announce this new route before Frontier. But they will be crushed by jets flying faster and cheaper. Is best they just pull back now rather than lose the money.

[pugboy]

how much frontier charging to barbados?
i like barbados for a 3 days, place is clean
tickets expensive to fly there and don’t fluctuate much

[pugboy]

seems like a game of chicken
who could outlast longer

Yea but for a 2hr flight less than US$200 return over CAL’s 4hr flight, I would endure it.

Worst yet Frontier flying to BGI too, so apparently CAL rush to announce this new route before Frontier. But they will be crushed by jets flying faster and cheaper. Is best they just pull back now rather than lose the money.

[Habit7]

how much frontier charging to barbados?
i like barbados for a 3 days, place is clean
tickets expensive to fly there and don’t fluctuate much

Frontier is flying POS - SJU and BGI - SJU
CAL is flying POS-BGI-SJU
Frontier is not flying POS -BGI