Air India Boeing 787 Crash

[st7]

shame that the experts in here are probably jobless

[pugboy]

boy aviation is a huge growth area for youtube channels
food blogging is pretty much stagnant now
aviation and those idiotic. interviews are the hot areas

[MISHI]

Everything is speculation until the investigation comes out, but I'm willing to believe this maybe was an issue with the electrical/ avionics failing.

I say this cause by now, many may have seen the X post of the flyer who was on the very previous flight and complained the aircon and infotainment were not working. May not be a big deal,

But there was another 5 days prior to the crash that a disgruntled passenger from Melbourne had their flight canceled by Air India due to "engineering problem" with no updates as to when they would depart for Delhi over 24 hrs later. Checking FR24 the airframe was in fact: VT_ANB... the same aircraft in the crash.

There is a possibility that this could have been an electrical brownout of the avionics (similar to that incident with an F16 fighter some time ago)... causing a failure of all flight control and response systems and the pilots were incapable of dealing with it due to the short time, low altitude and possible loss of thrust (You notice the plane took off positive climb and suddenly dropped still wings level attitude... no wing stall, etc. Meaning possibly the power dropped to idle or something significantly less.)

What it may come to is an issue with maintenance of the aircraft or lack thereof. Still doesn't answer why the plane was on clean config (no flaps) or even the talk of the RAT being auto deployed, etc.

And again I'm no expert... pretty much an enthusiast/ chair expert like many will say, so as said before it's speculation until the truth comes out.

[sMASH]

I realllllllly want to doubt is pilot error. Indians dat caliber don't Crack under pressure.
I really feel they lost power to the engines(somehow) and the ability to control the plane(somehow).

If is one single problem , could electrical failure that cut fuel and hydraulics.. Valves or pump motor

[MISHI]

Well those things are flying computers. I remember Stig Aviation did a section of one of his vids showing the avionics of either the 777 or 787 (Plastic Princess as he calls it) and the level of systems/ wiring is mind boggling. As much as things are put in place redundancy wise, you could see how easy it is for something to fail there that could cause a master system failure. But we'll see.

[PariaMan]

Survivor was clear that the plane accelerated but was not gaining height. Therefore, it is not an issue with the engines.

Landinging gear was not raised and flaps probably in the wrong position

Clearly pilot error which will be revealed shortly unless there is a cover-up.

[shake d livin wake d dead]

Plenty flight simulator and YouTube champions up in here.

[MaxPower]

Survivor was clear that the plane accelerated but was not gaining height. Therefore, it is not an issue with the engines.

Landinging gear was not raised and flaps probably in the wrong position

Clearly pilot error which will be revealed shortly unless there is a cover-up.

I will say again, and i find it odd they are not considering incorrect weight and balance (loadsheet) figures.

If the loadsheet figures wrong, or the crew enters the wrong figures in the computer…..the power/thrust setting, speed, trim and flap settings would be incorrect as well.

But it’s amazing so many “experienced” pilots are saying no flaps are seen….well duh it is impossible to tell from the video if you had a low flap setting.

[matr1x]

I had a post......but its too soon

[PariaMan]

The fact that the plane took off and did not crash immediately means it was initially configured correctly.

Pilot error after take off is the cause will be revealed by next week when the back box dara is reviewed

[PariaMan]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxdQwYhIa6-M ... AgHcvSqgnL

[sMASH]

The fact that the plane took off and did not crash immediately means it was initially configured correctly.

Pilot error after take off is the cause will be revealed by next week when the back box dara is reviewed

Hopefully they could release the black box data in a week.

Every thing looked nominal until it started to stop climbing.


Allyuh ever experienced a fuel pump failure while driving ? Engine cut out, no power steering , no break booster...
It look like that to me, but in the air.

[one eye]

Everything is speculation at this point.

Something bigger was going on, we can say this since speculations from previous crashes are always far from truth.

One thing that is clear is the aircraft struggled to climb above 625-650 ft.

It experienced positive climb until 650ft then descended.

There are many things that can cause this, no clear cut answer until they retrieve and analyze the black box data.

We will know when the investigation is concluded.

[CB Style]

Everything is speculation until the investigation comes out, but I'm willing to believe this maybe was an issue with the electrical/ avionics failing.

I say this cause by now, many may have seen the X post of the flyer who was on the very previous flight and complained the aircon and infotainment were not working. May not be a big deal,

The engines on the B787 do not provide bleed air for the Air condition packs and other systems which is typical with all other airplanes. This was an agreement between GE and Boeing when the aircraft was being designed. The only system that rely on the engine is the engine cowl anti-ice. All other system has their own independent design that is electrically powered hence the additional generators for redundancies.
The Inflight entertainment system is an independent system so if it was not working properly, it would not affect the crucial systems.

[CB Style]

Survivor was clear that the plane accelerated but was not gaining height. Therefore, it is not an issue with the engines.

Landinging gear was not raised and flaps probably in the wrong position

Clearly pilot error which will be revealed shortly unless there is a cover-up.

I will say again, and i find it odd they are not considering incorrect weight and balance (loadsheet) figures.

If the loadsheet figures wrong, or the crew enters the wrong figures in the computer…..the power/thrust setting, speed, trim and flap settings would be incorrect as well.

But it’s amazing so many “experienced” pilots are saying no flaps are seen….well duh it is impossible to tell from the video if you had a low flap setting.

If the aircraft was not properly configured, such like forgetting to select the necessary flap setting, then as soon as the pilot select take-off thrust, they would have gotten a config. warning and the procedure for that is a rejected take-off. Even if it was just an indication issue.

[Dizzy28]

Everything is speculation until the investigation comes out, but I'm willing to believe this maybe was an issue with the electrical/ avionics failing.

I say this cause by now, many may have seen the X post of the flyer who was on the very previous flight and complained the aircon and infotainment were not working. May not be a big deal,

But there was another 5 days prior to the crash that a disgruntled passenger from Melbourne had their flight canceled by Air India due to "engineering problem" with no updates as to when they would depart for Delhi over 24 hrs later. Checking FR24 the airframe was in fact: VT_ANB... the same aircraft in the crash.

There is a possibility that this could have been an electrical brownout of the avionics (similar to that incident with an F16 fighter some time ago)... causing a failure of all flight control and response systems and the pilots were incapable of dealing with it due to the short time, low altitude and possible loss of thrust (You notice the plane took off positive climb and suddenly dropped still wings level attitude... no wing stall, etc. Meaning possibly the power dropped to idle or something significantly less.)

What it may come to is an issue with maintenance of the aircraft or lack thereof. Still doesn't answer why the plane was on clean config (no flaps) or even the talk of the RAT being auto deployed, etc.

And again I'm no expert... pretty much an enthusiast/ chair expert like many will say, so as said before it's speculation until the truth comes out.

Between myself and my boss we used Air India a few times since 2023 and the IFE was always out. .

It being down is basically a normal thing for them and not something extraordinary.

[matix]

The fact that the plane took off and did not crash immediately means it was initially configured correctly.

Pilot error after take off is the cause will be revealed by next week when the back box dara is reviewed

Hopefully they could release the black box data in a week.

Every thing looked nominal until it started to stop climbing.


Allyuh ever experienced a fuel pump failure while driving ? Engine cut out, no power steering , no break booster...
It look like that to me, but in the air.

That happened on Wednesday evening with me

[MaxPower]

If the aircraft was not properly configured, such like forgetting to select the necessary flap setting, then as soon as the pilot select take-off thrust, they would have gotten a config. warning and the procedure for that is a rejected take-off. Even if it was just an indication issue.

Good point,

But remember with reference to FMC inputs….garbage in, garbage out.

If you enter wrong information, the aircraft would not know. If you enter a wrong weight for example or a wrong wind or temperature, you would get a wrong assumed temperature, flap, power setting, trim, V speeds etc….so let’s say if based on wrong info entered and a Flap 1 is recommended, but u select Flap 25 which was supposed to be the correct setting…you would get the T/O config warning because it wants Flap 1.

If you use those exact figures and config in the FMC and reposition the aircraft to a next country with winter and a shorter runway etc….you’re dead.

I mentioned assumed temperature…highly important and used by all airliners to save the life of the engine. An aircraft performs better in cooler temperatures just like a car. When using the assumed temperature method, you basically fool the aircraft to thinking the temperature is cooler. If them fellas incorrectly enter a temperature of 2 degrees and it was supposed to be 28 degrees….that would affect the power setting significantly.

I think that aircraft sense something based on incorrect FMC inputs and it retard them throttles and kill the lift…..them fellas prob get distracted and forget the gear and by the time they try to add power…it was too late. To spool back up does take a while….and if they stall at such a low altitude, remember stall recovery in that scenario requires you to get the nose down and add power…pressure at 600ft with obstacles.

[Cantmis]

Modi ain't blame pakistan as yet !

Sent from my SM-A145M using TriniTuner mobile app

[MISHI]

Well seems like there is a cleaner video out there of the 1st video which shows the RAT deployed and operational.

So possibly as I was thinking that they lost system power. Again just speculation.

[PariaMan]

Man switch up

https://youtu.be/8XYO-mj1ugg?si=io6oPMrI6kKdEqNI

[sMASH]

I is ah boss.

[PariaMan]

Yea i heard since yesterday about the RAT

Also, that comment about no power from the captain

And the sound of the RAT

Looks like it was automatically enabled, but really, it could do nothing at that altitude

[sMASH]

The ONLY course of action there to TRY was to dive , get back some speed, then try to get back some lift , and try to balance between speed and lift. These are split second actions much like on a circuit race course.

The problem was, they lost the ability to control, as was shown by the plane not changing at all.



U all got a taste of a fraction of what dealing with a plant upset in pt Lisas can be.

[one eye]

Captain Steve, after a further review now speculates dual engine failure.

In that video you hear the RAT not the engines roaring, sounds very faint almost as if in an idle state.

If it is true that the pilot called a "Mayday!, Mayday! Thrust not achieved" then it probably did not shut off and somehow rollback to idle.

There is independent controls and fuel management systems for both engines.

Both cannot be affected by contaminated fuel at the same time.

[PariaMan]

I think we have to wait now for the black boxes to eventually get the full truth

[MaxPower]

Hmmm if that RAT was deployed then that eliminates alot of possibilities.

Another “what if” based on my overnight aviation expertise:

It was noticed that the aircraft lifted off significantly further down the run way than usual. This could have meant that only 1 engine was losing thrust, which caused an increase in thrust in the other engine, manually by the crew. It could have been a gradual and slow loss in power which eventually lead to a total failure just after lift off. The crew realized the failure, got distracted and forgot to retract gear and did the “memory items” for an engine failure. Basically this would have entailed shutting down the bad engine by closing the affected thrust lever and shutting off all fuel and pulling fire extinguisher switches as applicable etc, followed by the checklist.

From talking to some pilot gods….shutting down the wrong engine, i.e- the good one, is a very common issue in simulator training.

[sMASH]

Who d f* will try to fly a plane with one engine?

[PariaMan]

Who d f* will try to fly a plane with one engine?

Actually, this model plane can fly and take off on one engine if necessary

[MaxPower]

Who d f* will try to fly a plane with one engine?

Mash,

One would think no one in their right mind.

But for aviation gods, there is a certain speed, which is the decision speed or “V1” where u must continue the takeoff and handle the problem in the air. If the speed where u get the engine failure is before that V1 speed, you can mash brakes and abort the take off.

This is what pilots train for every 6 months: basically they simulate as soon as they about to take off, they get a V1 cut, or engine failure or fire. And they continue the take off with one engine, complete all check lists and then plan to land safely.

CAL has had many single engine operations where they had to shut the engine down and they landed safely both on 737 and ATR.

But human error can make you shut down the good engine instead…..thas problems