Target: 170WHP; 140TQ. B18B.

[nonVTEC]

How do I get there?

I am at 140 WHP and 120 TQ. Any other suggestions WITHOUT altering stock compression 9.2:1.

Current Upgrades:

Crower 62403 Camshafts; Crower dual valve springs & Ti retainers
AEM V2 Cold Air Intake
DC Sport 4-2-1 Header
Apexi N1 Cat Back Exhaust
Edelbrock Cam Sprockets
MSD Ignition Wires & External Coil
Denso Iriduim Spark Plugs
ACT Street/Strip
ACT Streetlite Flywheel
AEM Alternator & Power Steering Pulleys
B&M Fuel Pressure Regulator & Gauge

Unaltered Head
Stock Fuel Injectors
Stock Cat. Convertor
Stock Intake Manifold
Stock Throttle Body
Stock OBD 2 ECU
Stock Gearbox

Impossible without altering compression?

I have a spare stock B20B and I considering transfering the above parts and see how it does at the dyno.

[Zim]

nice parts man! Wah chassis?

[Kinday]

Nice selection of parts....To be honest though I think you're gonna have to go into the engine if you need to make the extra 30 horses and 20 lbft. Either that or boost.

But seriously, I think you should look into doing some tuning, then see where you're at and go from there. You can try a chipped OBD1 ECU and run a program like Hondata, Crome or Uberdata so that you can tune both fuel and ignition curves. Get one to match your budget. I'm sure you can find some decent power right there to compliment all those parts you put on.

You might want to look at opening up your breathing on the other intake side also, via a bigger throttle body and a port matched intake manifold. Port flowing and polishing the head would help too since the non vtec heads don't flow as well as their vtec cousins.

On the exhaust side you might also want to get one size from header to muffler inlet. Since you're running the Apexi N1, I believe it's 2.36" then I guess you can get away with a 2.25" or 2.5" collector and cat. The 2.5" to 2.36" will cause a slight bottle neck but I think it's negligible...regardless you'll be getting optimal flow to match your intake.

Tuning, tuning, tuning....BTW, those cams would be happier with some a bit more compression

Hope that helps.

[X2]

*edit...kinday said that stuff*


Swapping out the box for a vtec unit will help accelleration, but not HP numbers.

Forget that ignition crap... stock ignition will do fine for you right now... just make sure your stock parts are in good order.... but the cheapest and easiest way to make your torque goals is to swap in the b20b block with those cams and port the head some.... you can get it done locally with no problem. I started porting on b18b heads and they respond well to even an amatuer job.

[HondaB20B]

Current Upgrades:

Crower 62403 Camshafts; Crower dual valve springs & Ti retainers
AEM V2 Cold Air Intake
DC Sport 4-2-1 Header
Apexi N1 Cat Back Exhaust
Edelbrock Cam Sprockets
MSD Ignition Wires & External Coil
Denso Iriduim Spark Plugs
ACT Street/Strip
ACT Streetlite Flywheel
AEM Alternator & Power Steering Pulleys
B&M Fuel Pressure Regulator & Gauge

Unaltered Head
Stock Fuel Injectors
Stock Cat. Convertor
Stock Intake Manifold
Stock Throttle Body
Stock OBD 2 ECU
Stock Gearbox

...................... nice build pal!!!!

[nonVTEC]

Nice selection of parts....To be honest though I think you're gonna have to go into the engine if you need to make the extra 30 horses and 20 lb ft. Either that or boost. .

I am trying to see how far I can go without "uping" the compression by changing the pistons. The engine has over 100,000km and the head has never been seperated from the block. Boost is too easy, I may try it one day after I go thru my nonVTEC, VTEC, with NOS phrases. I am still on the non VTEC phrase . Plus, I love having NO reliability issues after over 100,000 kms.

But seriously, I think you should look into doing some tuning, then see where you're at and go from there. You can try a chipped OBD1 ECU and run a program like Hondata, Chrome or Userdata so that you can tune both fuel and ignition curves. Get one to match your budget. I'm sure you can find some decent power right there to compliment all those parts you put on.

That coming, Hondata s300 with A/F datalogging.

You might want to look at opening up your breathing on the other intake side also, via a bigger throttle body and a port matched intake manifold. Port flowing and polishing the head would help too since the non vtec heads don't flow as well as their vtec cousins.

I after have considered several times getting an aftermarket "Type-R" intake manifold. But I don't know if the gains will be there. And I have considered several times to jump ship to a LS/VTEC platform. So I thought I would be wasting money on an intake manifold.

A bigger throttle body will bring minimal gains as I have seen with my friends with B18C Rs. You and I know every bit helps.

"Port flowing and polishing the head", who I giving that to do in Trinidad. Honda engineers who best, I leaving that alone for now.

On the exhaust side you might also want to get one size from header to muffler inlet. Since you're running the Apexi N1, I believe it's 2.36" then I guess you can get away with a 2.25" or 2.5" collector and cat. The 2.5" to 2.36" will cause a slight bottle neck but I think it's negligible...regardless you'll be getting optimal flow to match your intake.

I ordered a DC Sport 4-1 JDM header with the 2.5 collector. And I have Test-Pipe to install.

Tuning, tuning, tuning....BTW, those cams would be happier with some a bit more compression.

I know, tuning will come. And the compression will come if I HAVE TO to open engine.

Hope that helps.

Thanks Kinday and X2. I hope other true NA Honda tuners are paying attention.

[stephanweaver]

i say slap on a vtec head and build the block.

[Clerique]

Stock Cat converter is a restriction on that Apexi Exaust (if it is the entire thing and not just a muffler).

My vote is to get that S300 ASAP!

[katurbobeast]

i think u can reach your goal without altering CR........

u havent touched your cyl-head and thats where u will make most of your power...
Unaltered Head
Stock Fuel Injectors <upgrade
Stock Cat. Convertor <firetruck this, remove it totally...
Stock Intake Manifold <IRTBs or custom runners
Stock Throttle Body <IRTBs or upgrade
Stock OBD 2 ECU < go standalone
Stock Gearbox

y not use a 4-1 extractor instead of 4-2-1?

[DrunkenMaster16]

4-2-1 = good base tq / decent mid range
4-1 = more hp and top end overall.

[Zim]

:shock: nice parts man! Wah chassis?

[Streetwise Performance]

Nice selection of parts....To be honest though I think you're gonna have to go into the engine if you need to make the extra 30 horses and 20 lbft. Either that or boost.

BOOST IT... YOU WILL LOVE IT!!

here's a 400 page thread on boosted b18b/a (LS in the US)
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/1323059

the first guy posted a 250WHP on stock motor...

[X2]

You will see gains with a local port job... the b18a/b heads are clogged up nasty and not as fickle as the vtec head castings.

[type_r_teggy]

great parts
but wasting time if u hav nothing to tune

[stephanweaver]

170whp is just a number.

[katurbobeast]

start upgrading ur cyl-head.....thats where u gonna make ur power...

IRTBs is the way to go for NA.....
VTEC? i say NO you dont need it, a non-vtec head can produce the same power with cams installed.....
i still say 4-1 extractors is the best way if ur a gearhead....

[stephanweaver]

you mentioned you are using a dc sport header.
you can get more gains with a good header.

[katurbobeast]

hmmm ^^^ Racing Beat r well proven extractors, if they sell for honda i dont know!!

[all motor]

dc sport header is crap
get a good header

What header you currently using?

Tell us about your setup, we can probably learn from you.

[stephanweaver]

my stock b16a currently at 151whp. has an unphased torque curve from 5500rpm all the way till redline.

my only bolt on is a k&n short ram, and exhaust.
i am using jdm stock header for now.
check my 2ner ride.

what i meant to say is that there are much better headers than dc sport.
even arround for the same price range.

anybody can spend money on lots of parts, pay someone to install them, tune them ect and brag on peak hp numbers.

[stephanweaver]

..... back to the topic

[X2]

start upgrading ur cyl-head.....thats where u gonna make ur power...

IRTBs is the way to go for NA.....
VTEC? i say NO you dont need it, a non-vtec head can produce the same power with cams installed.....
i still say 4-1 extractors is the best way if ur a gearhead....

Not quite accurate there.

Only after extensive porting could I get a b18b1 head to see flow numbers like a stock b16 head. In short, all the work you do on a b18b or b18a head will still only get it to flow like a STOCK vtec head.

[Silvermike]

gosh, all the parts in the world and not one ounce of tuning.

U will never see any sort of decent numbers if u dont get a good management system and a competent tuner to tune it. As it is now, I think u should already be at 170whp... the only thing i would do is do a std 3-angle, port the intake and shave the head abit.

[katurbobeast]

hmmm ok good point X2, im no honda expert but i guess u've checked it out.....
but u understand where im coming from....when i say most of your power is made from the cyl-head...

how much can the B18a or b cyl-head be ported as compared to a b16?
and what about the b18c, how does this head compare to a b16 or b18a/b?

[Silvermike]

The thing about the b16a and b18c is that they come pretty well done from factory... whereas the b18a/b are relatively crude.... since there is no bench flows in the country, its hard to better the b16... but u can 'eyeball' a better flow dynamic than the b18

[X2]

how you figure ?

port angles on the b18b/a heads are way different.

[X2]

btw... the b18c head is based on a factory b16 head casting... it's the same, except the b18c (meaning type R, not gsr) receives a hand polish from factory, which removes the burrs casting imperfections, which is not done on any other head in the series (only b18c, b18c5, b16b)...all of which are based on stock b16 castings.

[HondaB20B]

currently at 151whp.

Hmmm................................. dats just ahh # also

[stephanweaver]

well if you intelligent enough you would read the end of the paragraph.
i was saying that my torque is unphased and dont drop off till redline.

why you keep attacking me? i already told you i am not your friend and have no intention of being your friend.

[X2]

can't we all just get along ?