The Religion Discussion

[d spike]

...and Bluefete, man is a social animal... whether you like it or not. Worshiping as a community is very helpful to us as social beings. Admitting to refusing to do so, does not exactly help people to acquire confidence in believing that you consider your beliefs worthy enough to act on them....

...or that you REALLY know what you're talking about. So, apart from getting practice in cut n' pasting hobgobbery from sites about ultra-biased uber-christian 'science', what else did you intend this for this one-hundred-and-almost-fifty page thread of quibble?

[bluefete]

halt there!
plz remember that not ALL Christians have the same practices. Christian is a broad term and simply means "follower of Christ" so please do not abuse it; these practices by some do not dictate the practices by ALL denominations.
ok that's all!

this is what I thought too, but megadoc and bluefete are claiming that Catholics, Anglicans, Presbyterians etc etc etc are doing it wrong.

megadoc and bluefete know the right way though because Jesus told them privately.

No. We read the Book

so the book said the book was right and u guys understand it best so I'm guessing you're going to start another religion?
religion again!! is always some smart arse in the congregation who feel he knows it better so he needs to open his own church

Hi Lola .308

Too many offshoots of Christianity have been founded by people who took a part of a sentence and ran with it. The entire "rapture" debate is a good example.

[bluefete]

since when faith and worship were selfish and 'only for yourself'?...

Do you even go to church to share your time worshiping with others, friends and family?...

I've never known religion to be so selfish.

you are correct in stating the selfishness of "religion". But instead it should read "all religions".
And NO I do NOT go to church/temple/mosque/tent.

No Bluefete, you are wrong. Most religions teach that SHARING, SELFLESSNESS, not selfishness or self-centeredness, is to be aspired to. However, even though fundamentalist christians pay lip-service to this concept in their life-habits, their relationship with god, aka their religion, is VERY selfish, and is quite self-centered - and this attitude infects the other areas of their lives blatantly (Read megadoc's posts for proof of this - the more legible and lucid ones). While you should do what is required to ascribe to getting past the Pearly Gates, to do so without figuring out why you were put here in the first place by the same guy you hope to spend eternity with, is simply illogical at best - stupidly and blindly obstinate more like it. I have spoken about this before.

To believe in personal salvation is all well and good, but that cannot be the be-all-and-end-all of your religion... The mantra of "I am saved!" cannot be the focal point of the human relationship with the Creator - this is a very selfish viewpoint. To have a "personal relationship with God" is a good thing, but we were put here as a people, to achieve something as a people. (One reason why suicide is wrong.) Life is beautiful, but too short for an individual to achieve God's plan (if there is one) on his own. We each go through life, meeting far too many individuals, to interact fully with each... far too many problems and ills exist for any one of us to deal with - alone. We can run to a "God" for solace, but in every example of this, we are told that the answer lies within us as a people. We are "Christ" to each other - or whatever you want to call it.

We are called as a people to achieve something wonderful, over time (hence the reason for procreation) and this is what was meant for us.
The world isn't going to end in a fit of God's anger and frustration with our inability to do what's right (that would mean the Devil won and God failed, wouldn't it?) but when we succeed in doing our part in the Great Scheme of things/"God's plan".

By our deeds we shall be judged. This means going out and doing. Many people go to church religiously and are the most unchristian people you can meet. After church, they would not even offer their neighbour a lift.

Sometimes this even includes the Pastor with the fancy car.

[bluefete]

...and Bluefete, man is a social animal... whether you like it or not. Worshiping as a community is very helpful to us as social beings. Admitting to refusing to do so, does not exactly help people to acquire confidence in believing that you consider your beliefs worthy enough to act on them....

...or that you REALLY know what you're talking about. So, apart from getting practice in cut n' pasting hobgobbery from sites about ultra-biased uber-christian 'science', what else did you intend this for this one-hundred-and-almost-fifty page thread of quibble?

This was supposed to be a relatively simple, SHORT thread about people's encounter with God.

However, God took it totally in a different direction which none of us contributors and the almost 50,000 viewers ever expected.

With respect to worshipping as a community, I am still looking for a community with which to worship.

~Shakes head~: I still cannot get over the fact that so many people have a problem when I use relevant sources to support my arguments but when they use theirs, I must have no problem.

[d spike]

Too many offshoots of Christianity have been founded by people who took a part of a sentence and ran with it. The entire "rapture" debate is a good example.

Quite right! Well said, lad.

Bluefete actually said something true... and it wasn't snipped and glued from some website... and I agreed with it...

[bluefete]

Too many offshoots of Christianity have been founded by people who took a part of a sentence and ran with it. The entire "rapture" debate is a good example.

Quite right! Well said, lad.

Bluefete actually said something true... and it wasn't snipped and glued from some website... and I agreed with it...

Yuh mean after 146 pages we finally getting somewhere?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Too many offshoots of Christianity have been founded by people who took a part of a sentence and ran with it. The entire "rapture" debate is a good example.

Quite right! Well said, lad.

Bluefete actually said something true... and it wasn't snipped and glued from some website... and I agreed with it...

Yuh mean after 146 pages we finally getting somewhere?

bluefete he agrees with you because you finally admitted that you too are part of Christians who take parts and run with it. Evidenced by the fact that your offshoot doesnt go to church

[Kasey]

...and Bluefete, man is a social animal... whether you like it or not. Worshiping as a community is very helpful to us as social beings. Admitting to refusing to do so, does not exactly help people to acquire confidence in believing that you consider your beliefs worthy enough to act on them....

...or that you REALLY know what you're talking about. So, apart from getting practice in cut n' pasting hobgobbery from sites about ultra-biased uber-christian 'science', what else did you intend this for this one-hundred-and-almost-fifty page thread of quibble?

This was supposed to be a relatively simple, SHORT thread about people's encounter with God.

However, God took it totally in a different direction which none of us contributors and the almost 50,000 viewers ever expected.

With respect to worshipping as a community, I am still looking for a community with which to worship.

~Shakes head~: I still cannot get over the fact that so many people have a problem when I use relevant sources to support my arguments but when they use theirs, I must have no problem.

Ammm.........bluefete, the 'view' column doesnt show how many viewers eh, it shos how many times the post has been opened to view. The same ppl are just reading everyday, hence the large number of views. Jeez man.........

[megadoc1]

megadoc1 has been repeating that he doesnt care about other people and what they think or believe; HE gave himself to God and he is going to heaven. So to hell with everyone else?what a way to put it... but anyways the same God avialable to me is available to the "everyone else", if I with my own free will, choose Him over death hows that selfishness? if the "everyone else" can do the same with their own free will but not do it ? it have nothing to do with me but them and God so take it easy........... am I being selfish for telling man their outcome if they reject God?


Megadoc1 and bluefete have said that men like Ghandi, who devoted their life to help others less fortunate and to promote equality, love, kindness and world peace still will NOT go to heaven because, despite all of that, HE did not accept Jesus as lord.
the lord laid rules and I am just telling how it is ,its not me you have a problem with ,its God

I've never known religion to be so selfish.get to know God and you will see how much you never knew

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

"It is a tragedy that the only picture of jesus that some people have is of how others have misrepresented Him." (megadoc1 and bluefete included)

[zcarz]

"It is a tragedy that the only picture of jesus that some people have is of how others have misrepresented Him." (megadoc1 and bluefete included)

[megadoc1]

"It is a tragedy that the only picture of jesus that some people have is of how others have misrepresented Him." (megadoc1 and bluefete included)

but don't let it be your excuse when you go before Him

[megadoc1]

this God person...quite an interesting fellow i must say

very interesting ...he is interested in you too
seek Him out

[3stagevtec]

this God person...quite an interesting fellow i must say

very interesting ...he is interested in you too
seek Him out

he in interested in me, but i have to see him out.. oh the irony..

[Kasey]

Bullsh!t is what you are sayin megaduck when you say acceptance of Jesus is the only way to heaven. Who are you to say so? And you might duck and say 'is not i who say so, is the napkin'. And then u might duck again and say 'is not me is god who say so'...........and so on and so on.......

Bottom line, things "are not" the'yr what u BELIEVE they are, so by using a book (of which many do not believe in) as reasons for you doing stuff, you are NOT PROVING SQUAT. And now you might refer to somm in the napkin again eh.......or somm to that extent bout his belief and so on.......

[DFC]

bluefete and megaduck.

Do you think if i summon the devil..he will come?

if i offer my soul to satan...will he show up and come?

cuz....umm..

well how do u summon the devil?

[Chimera]

"It is a tragedy that the only picture of jesus that some people have is of how others have misrepresented Him." (megadoc1 and bluefete included)

but don't let it be your excuse when you go before Him

What's your excuse when you go before him and he condemns you to hell for the hate you spew and how you have misrepresented him and his teachings and turned many away from following him?

What you gonna say? "Ooops" ?

[d spike]

"It is a tragedy that the only picture of jesus that some people have is of how others have misrepresented Him." (megadoc1 and bluefete included)

but don't let it be your excuse when you go before Him

Why not? For anyone who claims to believe in a Judgment Day, it is, unfortunately, the PERFECT excuse - once it's true.
In order for a non-believer to recognize the truth and beauty of Christianity (or any religion, for that matter) he MUST see it being PRACTICED. You know, a demonstration, like? That's why it's called WITNESSING. If in a person's life he is not ever exposed to the truth presented PROPERLY, then how can he claim to know of it? "Because it's in a book"??? "We told him to read it"??? That's a heap of codswallop. Belief in a God of love should be made obvious by one's actions, which would reflect the possibility of something better... something more... That is how you bring people home to their Father... not by all this nonsense mega spouts about not caring whether... not caring who thinks what...

...that's why I cannot stand his nonsense.

that this 'cut-and-dried' approach to what you perceive as your salvation may very well work for you (and I'm happy for you if it does) but there are other ways, other paths to Paradise... and you are out of line to tell other folks that their path to God is wrong, and yours alone is right. You can't claim "personal interpretation" of scripture is acceptable and then say that a differing interpretation is not acceptable.

Mr d spike,why a man with all your high knowledge and logic
could be bothered by a little idiot like me ?

Honesty? Well, that's a start. I bother with little idiots like you because your loud, incessant yowlings can fool younglings into thinking your berating and haranguing is what religion is about, and either drive them away from exploring an intriguing aspect of their humanity, or suck them into your mind-destroying souless pretence at spirituality.

You claim to follow a religion that was meant to promote love, peace and brotherhood... yet you constantly spew falsehoods, inanity, prejudice, blindness, indecision and lack of thought in your posts. How is this supposed to help your claimed religion? You are just serving to frighten people away from it. You would serve your cause even better by just clamming up.

It brings me no comfort to know that there are creatures like you out there, pretending to know God and foisting your second-hand beliefs that you don't even fully understand (stories and lessons half-heard and badly told) on others, mainly doing this in an attempt to salve your insecurities and low self-esteem, only succeeding in scaring away people from a deeper understanding of reality. For this reason, I carry on (not for your benefit, for you have made it clear that you are incapable of learning - you never took my advice about studying your faith properly, did you?) but for the sake of younger folks who might be reading your colossally nonsensical rantings and mistake them for the product of a truly christian mind.

[d spike]

we would all be good and there would be no need to believe in god or put faith in god since the evil no longer exists?you have to understand what is evil

Another example of megadoc's "squat n' squeeze" approach to answering a question that he doesn't know the answer to.oh really?

This has nothing to do with evil. When all this is at an end, and we come home to our Creator, we will finally and actually get to KNOW Him. Faith only exists here, for we do NOT KNOW Him - we only believe He is, thus we claim to have 'faith'. 'Hope' as well will cease to exist, for we will no longer yearn for something to come, it will actually BE. Only Love will exist. what you forget to tell him is that rejecting God while he is alive on this earth is considered evil and if he leave this earth without accepting or serving him here he would be no part of the we in"we would all be good and there would be no need to believe in god or put faith in god since the evil no longer exists"

(Megadoc, sometimes you come across as infantile in the extreme... I didn't "forget" to tell him about rejecting God, for I wasn't TALKING ABOUT rejecting God.)

Now..."without accepting or serving him here" (I know the knee-jerk response will be, "d spike twisting my words" - but plain and simple English is a foreign language to some here )
Is this a choice of actions? One can either "accept", or "serve" in order to make the passing grade? Or a statement showing the importance/equality of both?
Either way, "serving", or performing actions are quite important. That nonsense megadoc spouted about Gandhi... (sigh) Charitable actions are very important where salvation is concerned, as can be seen in this often-ignored teaching of Jesus. (And Megadoc can see who the "we" will be...)

lets see who will be part of this we that d spike taking about

Then the King will say to the people on his right, “Come, you that are blessed by my Father! Come and possess the kingdom which has been prepared for you ever since the creation of the world. I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes, naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you took care of me, in prison and you visited me.”
The righteous will then answer him, “When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and gave you a drink? When did we ever see you a stranger and welcome you in our homes, or naked and clothe you? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?”
The King will reply, “I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these brothers of mine, you did it for me!”

Martin Luther had the same problem with the virtue of charity, as compared to faith. He desperately wanted to get St. James' letter out of the bible (as it shows that faith IS NOT THE ONLY REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION) and searched unsuccessfully for a canon that didn't include it as scripture, to thus allow him to claim that canon as the 'right' one - a stunt he pulled to get rid of other books that highlighted material he didn't approve of.

[Chimera]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIIknwAT ... r_embedded

[sMASH]

inception was maddd. it shows how things go awry when different concepts dont synchronize.

[sparky]

In heaven after judgment day there will be people there who never knew Jesus. In the present time those who knowingly reject him will know there faith in time to come.

[megadoc1]

Bullsh!t is what you are sayin megaduck when you say acceptance of Jesus is the only way to heaven. Who are you to say so? the megadoc1And you might duck and say 'is not i who say so, is the napkin'. And then u might duck again and say 'is not me is god who say so'...........and so on and so on.......
doh beat up

Bottom line, things "are not" the'yr what u BELIEVE they are, so by using a book (of which many do not believe in) as reasons for you doing stuff, you are NOT PROVING SQUAT. And now you might refer to somm in the napkin again eh.......or somm to that extent bout his belief and so on.......ok but this is what I believe if you don't believe it thats your choice ...nuff respect

bluefete and megaduck.

Do you think if i summon the devil..he will come?maybe

if i offer my soul to satan...will he show up and come?maybe

cuz....umm..

well how do u summon the devil? ah c'mon call on God nah jed

[

What's your excuse when you go before him and he condemns you to hell for the hate you spew and how you have misrepresented him and his teachings and turned many away from following him? well

What you gonna say? "Ooops" ? not really yuh see you all think that I have power to turn people from God but anyways I believe that Jesus my lord will righteously judge people
and my faith in him is counted as righteousness and as long as he directs my path I cool

[megadoc1]

"It is a tragedy that the only picture of jesus that some people have is of how others have misrepresented Him." (megadoc1 and bluefete included)

but don't let it be your excuse when you go before Him

Why not? For anyone who claims to believe in a Judgment Day, it is, unfortunately, the PERFECT excuse - once it's true.so is your lie gonna be that they will be excused ?
In order for a non-believer to recognize the truth and beauty of Christianity (or any religion, for that matter) he MUST see it being PRACTICED. You know, a demonstration, like? That's why it's called WITNESSING. If in a person's life he is not ever exposed to the truth presented PROPERLY, then how can he claim to know of it? again who will be held accountable?"Because it's in a book"??? "We told him to read it"??? That's a heap of codswallop. who will pay for his sins ?

Belief in a God of love should be made obvious by one's actions, which would reflect the possibility of something better... something more... That is how you bring people home to their Father... says who ? you ?not by all this nonsense mega spouts about not caring whether... but it is the very nonsense thats saves them not caring who thinks what...why should I ? I am only telling the truth

...that's why I cannot stand his nonsense.thats the most you can do,live with it

that this 'cut-and-dried' approach to what you perceive as your salvation may very well work for you (and I'm happy for you if it does) but there are other ways, other paths to Paradise... lies again and you are out of line to tell other folks that their path to God is wrong, and yours alone is right. I never said my path alone is right I said Jesus is the only way and he directs our paths You can't claim "personal interpretation" of scripture is acceptable and then say that a differing interpretation is not acceptable.

Mr d spike,why a man with all your high knowledge and logic
could be bothered by a little idiot like me ?

Honesty? Well, that's a start. I bother with little idiots like you because your loud, incessant yowlings can fool younglings into thinking your berating and haranguing is what religion is about, and either drive them away from exploring an intriguing aspect of their humanity, or suck them into your mind-destroying souless pretence at spirituality. but what can you do about it ?.. tell lies?

You claim to follow a religion that was meant to promote love, peace and brotherhood... yet you constantly spew falsehoods, inanity, prejudice, blindness, indecision and lack of thought in your posts. How is this supposed to help your claimed religion? You are just serving to frighten people away from it. You would serve your cause even better by just clamming up. another misunderstanding of yours

It brings me no comfort to know that there are creatures like you out there,it never will the fact that people preach about Jesus disturbs you but you are powerless the most you can do is tell a lie pretending to know God and foisting your second-hand beliefs that you don't even fully understand (stories and lessons half-heard and badly told) assumptions as usual on others, mainly doing this in an attempt to salve your insecurities and low self-esteem, assumptions only succeeding in scaring away people from a deeper understanding of reality.assumptions For this reason, I carry on (not for your benefit, for you have made it clear that you are incapable of learning -assumptions you never took my advice about studying your faith properly, did you?) take advice from a liar?but for the sake of younger folks who might be reading your colossally nonsensical rantings and mistake them for the product of a truly christian mind. If you knew God you would not be worried at all but ......

[megadoc1]

we would all be good and there would be no need to believe in god or put faith in god since the evil no longer exists?you have to understand what is evil

Another example of megadoc's "squat n' squeeze" approach to answering a question that he doesn't know the answer to.oh really?

This has nothing to do with evil. When all this is at an end, and we come home to our Creator, we will finally and actually get to KNOW Him. Faith only exists here, for we do NOT KNOW Him - we only believe He is, thus we claim to have 'faith'. 'Hope' as well will cease to exist, for we will no longer yearn for something to come, it will actually BE. Only Love will exist. what you forget to tell him is that rejecting God while he is alive on this earth is considered evil and if he leave this earth without accepting or serving him here he would be no part of the we in"we would all be good and there would be no need to believe in god or put faith in god since the evil no longer exists"

(Megadoc, sometimes you come across as infantile in the extreme... I didn't "forget" to tell him about rejecting God, for I wasn't TALKING ABOUT rejecting God.)
so why not tell him everything ? ...wham ! alittle truth so hard for you?

Now..."without accepting or serving him here" (I know the knee-jerk response will be, "d spike twisting my words" - but plain and simple English is a foreign language to some here ) its a sad day when you complain about people's comprehension or comunication skills ,yet still use big word in a sophisticated manner, then tell them to go look it up or figure it out and then explain what it means just to make your self look goood. all that to tell a lie ? .....if a man comes across as lesser educated that you then it is more sensible that you speak in a language that he may understand. after all, you are the smarter one
Is this a choice of actions?yes simple choose life or chose death One can either "accept", or "serve" in order to make the passing grade?no both Or a statement showing the importance/equality of both?ok
Either way, "serving", or performing actions are quite important. good

That nonsense megadoc spouted about Gandhi... (sigh) Charitable actions are very important where salvation is concerned lies.. so a man have to work for salvation? what about grace?,the good works a man do in christ are works of faith as can be seen in this often-ignored teaching of Jesus. talking about ignored........who forgives sin? how does one receive forgiveness? how does one receive anything ? not by accepting it?


(And Megadoc can see who the "we" will be...)

lets see who will be part of this we that d spike taking about

Then the King will say to the people on his right, “Come, you that are blessed by my Father! Come and possess the kingdom which has been prepared for you ever since the creation of the world. I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes, naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you took care of me, in prison and you visited me.”
The righteous will then answer him, “When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and gave you a drink? When did we ever see you a stranger and welcome you in our homes, or naked and clothe you? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?”
The King will reply, “I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these brothers of mine, you did it for me!” but some how you "forget" to mention that this is servants of Christ who after receiving him and his forgiveness but never did his will this was taken in Matthew 25 why not say what was said in the 24 chapters before?

Martin Luther had the same problem with the virtue of charity, as compared to faith. He desperately wanted to get St. James' letter out of the bible (as it shows that faith IS NOT THE ONLY REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION) oh poor try..... yuh mean with all your understanding you did not understand that James was speaking about the works of faith? do you understand the difference between works of righteousness and works of faith?...... let me help yuh ....works of righteousness is when you do good thing on your own ,that can't get you to heaven, God sees that as being prideful and it means Jesus died for us in vain but works of faith is when you accept Jesus christ and what he did for us , the works you do are based on your faith in Him
and is not a requirement for salvation............. that and searched unsuccessfully for a canon that didn't include it as scripture, to thus allow him to claim that canon as the 'right' one - a stunt he pulled to get rid of other books that highlighted material he didn't approve of.

[Firewall]

megadoc and blu, ever heard about the nag hammadi library and the gnostic gospels? or Irenaeus?

anyway, the nag hammadi codicies are online so you could take a read

and ever wonder why none of the four gospels which make up the new testament were written by contemporaries of jesus, basically written almost 50 years after his death?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

works of righteousness is when you do good thing on your own ,that can't get you to heaven, God sees that as being prideful and it means Jesus died for us in vain but works of faith is when you accept Jesus christ and what he did for us , the works you do are based on your faith in Him
and is not a requirement for salvation.............

there you go again saying that only believing Jesus is God will get you to heaven and NOT selflessly devoting your life to helping the poor and needy.

Is there any one else in this thread that sees no logic in that?

[megadoc1]

works of righteousness is when you do good thing on your own ,that can't get you to heaven, God sees that as being prideful and it means Jesus died for us in vain but works of faith is when you accept Jesus christ and what he did for us , the works you do are based on your faith in Him
and is not a requirement for salvation.............

there you go again saying that only believing Jesus is God will get you to heaven and NOT selflessly devoting your life to helping the poor and needy.

Is there any one else in this thread that sees no logic in that?

take it easy duane if you have faith in Jesus you will know what you need to do for him it not guess work
you need to understand that faith in Jesus requires carrying out everything he wants you to do and they are all in his word, the key to getting it done is belief

[Firewall]

oh and before i forget, the Council of Nicea, where only a mere 325 years after the death of jesus, did the church decide upon him really being the son of god.

if you researching it please don't go to christian.org, or bible.com.

do some actual research

and in the words of Pope Leo X (16th century)...it has served us well, this myth of christ.

[megadoc1]

oh and before i forget, the Council of Nicea, where only a mere 325 years after the death of jesus, did the church decide upon him really being the son of god.

if you researching it please don't go to christian.org, or bible.com.

do some actual research

and in the words of Pope Leo X (16th century)...it has served us well, this myth of christ.

muh boy I believe in Jesus Christ and his word in the holy bible
it enough of what i needed to know