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toyo682 wrote:Once again can someone tell me how much good works wipes out a sin? If I am to place my faith in this logic how do I know that when I die I have done enough to even make it into even the lowest part of Heaven? How do you know you have done enough Duane if you were to die? Like I said there are many you believe that Hitler did plenty of good for Germany, did his good out weigh his bad? Do you really feed the poor because you love them or because you want to go to heaven?
sMASH wrote:our actions will be judged against our intentions.
) )toyo682 wrote:So one work of goodness then allows a person to enter heaven and causes god to forgive all other sins?
St. Dismas, 'the good thief', simply showed compassion for Christ, and begged a favour (after all, what did he have to lose?) and for that, he is presumed to have entered Paradise. Dry so?
Let me guess... you are going to say that it's obvious he must have only done some small, insignificant, teeny sinful thing...
So then we can assume the Hitler, Pablo Escobar and the bandits who shot the man for his music a month or two ago, the men who do rub people on a certain part of our highway, the rapist, etc are all going to heaven, unless we can say they have never done anything good in the lives. What does that say about the holiness of god and his justice.
d spike wrote:You need to ask yourself (NOT other people... Megadoc1 had it wrong from the starting line) if you believe Someone is in charge of this whole affair. If your answer is 'yes', then you need to trust that he has a plan - and you do your part. (Meddling in his affairs by messing with other people's lives isn't your part. To explain: we are all called to walk a path. Each of us has our own path. To stop walking in order to start directing traffic, or to go and drag people off their path to walk alongside you, may not be the best thing for that person.)
d spike wrote:toyo682 wrote:Once again can someone tell me how much good works wipes out a sin? If I am to place my faith in this logic how do I know that when I die I have done enough to even make it into even the lowest part of Heaven? How do you know you have done enough Duane if you were to die? Like I said there are many you believe that Hitler did plenty of good for Germany, did his good out weigh his bad? Do you really feed the poor because you love them or because you want to go to heaven?
And here we have a perfectly good example of how the fundamentalist approaches the same argument of 'faith/good works'. For someone who claimed a background in theology, your arguments somehow never reflect this.
The teaching of 'good works alone' was mainly meant to help explain how those who never experienced Christianity would be 'weighed' at the end of their time.
Man reaches out to God wherever he is, in whatever culture he is. In every culture, sin can be expunged via some method. One is 'weighed'/'judged' by the guidelines one tries to follow in life - what one honestly and truly believes. Smash said it best:sMASH wrote:our actions will be judged against our intentions.
Obviously, if it is not your belief to place your sins on the head of a goat, then chase the goat out into the wilderness, then you can frighten away as many goats as you want, your 682 sins will still be there. Your beliefs are meant for you to follow - not to foist them on others.
As far as this is concerned, "how do I know that when I die I have done enough to even make it into even the lowest part of Heaven?", well... The problem with fundamentalism is that it can only accept absolutes - and Christianity supposedly teaches that God accepts the human condition, whatever efforts on our part are made, are sanctified and made perfect by him.
So a fundamentalist christian is a contradiction - and in order for such a faith to exist, it must stress whatever scripture applies, while ignoring that which doesn't (or just pretend that it means something other than what it says
So, as you were presumably taught in your theological lessons, Christians believe that once man attempts to reach out to God, God returns the favour, for the sacrifice of Christ has allowed one's best attempts to be sanctified.
As far as the sob/cry "how do I know...?" you DON'T. It's called Faith. (Someone wasn't listening in class!)
Now... Hitler. Who believes that Hitler did plenty of good for Germany? Neo-nazis? Where do you get your information from? (I trust your theological studies were done via a much better acclaimed source.
I am not saying he is in Hell, or anybody else is, for that matter. That destination certainly does seem likely for someone who shared his actions - but it is not my place to dwell on this. My concern is that I do not perform evil, or encourage others to do so.
"Do you really feed the poor because you love them or because you want to go to heaven?" Come, come, come, toyo. You cannot remember any lessons on 'perfect' and 'imperfect'? Imperfect charity is better than none at all. Some of us work because we like the job, but many of us do it mainly for the salary.
d spike wrote:toyo682 wrote:So one work of goodness then allows a person to enter heaven and causes god to forgive all other sins?
St. Dismas, 'the good thief', simply showed compassion for Christ, and begged a favour (after all, what did he have to lose?) and for that, he is presumed to have entered Paradise. Dry so?
Let me guess... you are going to say that it's obvious he must have only done some small,insignificant, teeny sinful thing... You seem to miss the parts when Christ stated he had power to forgive sins, was this not one of the reasons the religious people in his time thought he was a blasphemer or did you miss that? The thief on the Cross ask Christ forgiveness...
So then we can assume the Hitler, Pablo Escobar and the bandits who shot the man for his music a month or two ago, the men who do rub people on a certain part of our highway, the rapist, etc are all going to heaven, unless we can say they have never done anything good in the lives. What does that say about the holiness of god and his justice.
Wait a minute... What business of yours is it how God deals with others? Since when is this important to YOUR faith? Or does YOUR faith depend on God bussin' everybody throat based on what you want to believe??? Better than that, man.
Your job is to do the best you can based on what you know/believe... and to trust that a compassionate God will judge you based on this.d spike wrote:You need to ask yourself (NOT other people... Megadoc1 had it wrong from the starting line) if you believe Someone is in charge of this whole affair. If your answer is 'yes', then you need to trust that he has a plan - and you do your part. (Meddling in his affairs by messing with other people's lives isn't your part. To explain: we are all called to walk a path. Each of us has our own path. To stop walking in order to start directing traffic, or to go and drag people off their path to walk alongside you, may not be the best thing for that person.)
toyo682 wrote:You seem to think I am against the doing of good works. I am not. But what if you did not do enough? image if our laws did not have preset fines. Then the police could take a man's car for dark tint. How fair would that be, imagine life in prison for driving on the shoulder (doh it might be good) or capital punishment for breaking a red light. So on the day of judgment how do you know god will judge you fairly, if he has not already told you the penalty for your sin and how much of your effort is necessary to atone for it. The Laws we have have told us the penalty before we break it, but god would not are we more moral and just than god then?
d spike wrote:toyo682 wrote:You seem to think I am against the doing of good works. I am not. But what if you did not do enough? image if our laws did not have preset fines. Then the police could take a man's car for dark tint. How fair would that be, imagine life in prison for driving on the shoulder (doh it might be good) or capital punishment for breaking a red light. So on the day of judgment how do you know god will judge you fairly, if he has not already told you the penalty for your sin and how much of your effort is necessary to atone for it. The Laws we have have told us the penalty before we break it, but god would not are we more moral and just than god then?
Wow, another illogically posed statement made to show the necessity of good works appear as facetious. Yes, yes, yes... measurements, graduations, calibrations....
The fact of the matter is, we are here to help each other, we do the best we can - once it is the best we can, God will provide ("My grace is enough for thee...").
toyo682 wrote:It is so funny how people don't see the love of God in the message that he himself has paid the price the you are now trying to pay by you good works. We are preaching Christ died for your sins that you may be free, but some how that is foolishness to those who would rather save themselves. I guess it is more loving to allow your Child who is drowning to continue to try and save themselves than to put them on your back and carry them. Thank God I am a fool.
megadoc1 wrote:thas what I know, wey d spike ?The True followers of Jesus Christ has Always been hated, and persecuted, down through history, with most of them suffering even to death for Jesus Christ.
d spike wrote: The worship of the Creator by man is of three basic types: individual, communal and universal. Individual worship is self-explanatory, as is communal. Universal worship (can't remember the proper scholastic term, but bear with me and my failing mind) concerns the Creator's plan for us, and is the main reason for our creation. We were brought into being - whether created in an instant, or brought into creation over a period of time (evolved?), is neither here nor there - as a race that propagates itself, and hands down knowledge across generations. This has to be for a reason. We are meant to achieve something... something good and wonderful... so wonderful, that everyone will be aware of it and its meaning... and the role the Creator played in all time. This is the plan. Its achievement will be the glory of our race, and to the greater glory of him who made us, and gave us the gifts to achieve. All will realise... "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess..." (Unfortunately, many people see the end of our time here as cataclysmic - thanks to the apocalyptic idiom used by the Jews - and a sort of 'victory dance' for "us" to do over the defeated "them".)
We were asked to do this by witnessing. It is unfortunate that folks think witnessing means talking and preaching - far from it. Witnessing means to live your life in such a way, that what you believe is seen in what you do. Gandhi said, "I like your Christ, but I do not like your christians." This was exactly what he was referring to. It is because of this hypocritical attitude that I use a common "c" when I refer to these "christians". Remember this: 'What you are doing is speaking so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.'
"You will go to hell fuh dat" smells like judgment. Don't make that mistake. Instead, say, "If I were like that and didn't change, I believe I would have a special place in hell." Reserve your ability to judge for yourself and your own actions - that is what it's for. Directing it outward warps it's ability to do good and to better oneself.
d spike wrote:toyo682 wrote:It is so funny how people don't see the love of God in the message that he himself has paid the price the you are now trying to pay by you good works. We are preaching Christ died for your sins that you may be free, but some how that is foolishness to those who would rather save themselves. I guess it is more loving to allow your Child who is drowning to continue to try and save themselves than to put them on your back and carry them. Thank God I am a fool.
Don't be silly.
You believe as you wish, share it with others as you may. But this is not your church, to damn/mock those on the outside. This is a non-religious public forum designed for car enthusiasts to jaw on for fun when they wish to discuss stuff other than engines.
All I am doing is defending both logic and the right for a man to make any choice he wants - as long as it does not impinge on the rights of others.
While one can come into a public forum and state one's point of view, no matter how radical (one does have the right of free speech), one cannot come into a public forum and state one's point of view THAT ALL ELSE IS WRONG AND THOSE WHO BELIEVE OTHERWISE WILL BE PUNISHED. A right is not a license. One has rights to do as one sees fit AS LONG AS ONE DOES NOT IMPINGE OR INFRINGE ON THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS. Apart from being just plain bad manners, you are denying others their right to not be offended unduly in public.
Initially, I see nothing wrong with a pretty girl running half-naked in public. If I realise that the girl is my daughter or wife, then suddenly my opinion changes drastically. Just because you think your belief is right, doesn't mean you have a right to cram it down other people's throats.
Depending on where you sit, an action can seem to be worthy, or highly offensive - just ask the anxious gentleman on a heavily crowded train with an overly full bladder, and then talk to another gentleman on the same train who has nowhere to sit for lack of space but next to the toilet bowl.
Cheers
MG Man wrote:Mr Gear wrote:Even if you feel overwhelmed or about to make a questionable or bad decision you can always ask God for guidance and he will guide you perfectly. God will not set you up in the way that you are alluding to.
finally someone sensible I can debate god with
ok Gear, but what about kleptos and people with compulsive disorders etc
pathalogical killers, etc..............there are those who know they need help, believe in god, genuinely ask fr guidance, and still knowingly do wrong due to different psychological and physiological disorders etc...............
again seems to me god, in his plan to make us all different, has condemned some of us to hell...
toyo682 wrote:Well if these are the views of majority of tuner, then lock the thread, delete it if so desired, and ban all religious threads on tuner....
Firewall wrote:and isn't the pope supposed to be the epitome of christianity? how come your own ace saying that christ is a myth?
so basically you would believe in douen and socouyant if somebody uncle fishing pardner write it down.
DFC wrote:so i wanna summon the devil and sell my soul.
(but i'm an athiest so its BS anyway..but i will try)
so i will sell my soul for magical powers an unlimited amounts of money.
with my powers i willl end the wars...and with money i will eradicate poverty.
also i will spread my seed to every fuener. like it or not.
before i die...i will repent and accept jesus as lord and saviour.
and...time for my soul to be collected (supposing i have a soul)
i made a pact with the devil for my soul.
but with the devils wealth i will doo sooo much good to humanity,
and before i die i will accept jesus.
So i will be saved!!
commonsense eh.
trick the devil.
am i the only one wanna try this?
toyo682 wrote:sMASH wrote:toyo682 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:megadoc1 wrote: [color=#00BF40]
the answer to ur last question i put two stories to show it, but u not see it.
we should do things for the sake of being responsible and caring i.e. selfless. that is what god intends for us here on earth. and u dont need to believe in god for that to happen, u would still be following the laws prescribed, others would be benefiting, u would be racking up blessings.
the reward for doing so is heaven.
even if u do it for the purpose of going to heaven, it is a worldly selfless desire, and people would still be benefiting from it, generating good and subsequent blessing.
but take for instance alcohol consumption. it is a sin according to islam. some may get sin for it. but some people are too weak for it and cannot help them selves. they may not get as much sin for it as compared to me. i fully well know the negative effects, and know how grave a ban it is. i can control my self. and if i do it, i do so with no excuses. so i may get more sin and punishment for a mere glass of puncheon than a person who does a nip a day. they cannot control it, i can.
the more blessings god gives us in this world , the greater the potential and responsibility we have to follow his instruction and do good.
the imam was granted entry into heaven, not because of the services he led, the word he spread, how well liked by the people he was. no, he was granted heaven because of the act of removing an obstacle from the path leading to a mosque, making it easier for the people to go to worship god, when no body was there to see, an his sole intention was to make it easier for others with no desire for his self.
the prostitute was granted entry to heaven because she gave a thirsty dog in the desert water because of compassion and empathy, with no reward to be received.
god wants us to develop ur caring selfless nature and higher intellect, rather than be focused on and subjected to our carnal emotional nature.
so, what do u think the purpose of judgment day is ?
[size=150]So one work of goodness then allows a person to enter heaven and causes god to forgive all other sins? So then we can assume the Hitler, Pablo Escobar and the bandits who shot the man for his music a month or two ago, the men who do rub people on a certain part of our highway, the rapist, etc are all going to heaven, unless we can say they have never done anything good in the lives. What does that say about the holiness of god and his justice.
toyo682 wrote:It is so funny how people don't see the love of God in the message that he himself has paid the price the you are now trying to pay by you good works. We are preaching Christ died for your sins that you may be free, but some how that is foolishness to those who would rather save themselves. I guess it is more loving to allow your Child who is drowning to continue to try and save themselves than to put them on your back and carry them. Thank God I am a fool.
ABA Trading LTD wrote:bluefete wrote:3stagevtec wrote:megadoc1 wrote:pioneer wrote:this God person...quite an interesting fellow i must say
very interesting ...he is interested in you too
seek Him out
When you are interested in a woman, don't you seek her out?
you understand what you just wrote?
If so, then you are proving 3stagevtec's point, God suppose to seek US out
d spike wrote:toyo682 wrote:Well if these are the views of majority of tuner, then lock the thread, delete it if so desired, and ban all religious threads on tuner....
I wouldn't go that far to say that my opinion is the same as 'the views of majority of tuner' - that is just my opinion. The fact that this thread has been allowed to exist for this long obviously suggests otherwise.
I used to read this, Bluefete's "God" thread, in amazement (while not the most accurate word, that's the most polite word I can use to describe how I felt), but I never even wished to voice an opinion. This decision was based on my experiences regarding discussions amongst differing faiths. While it sounds like a good idea to compare differences, observe similarities, and generally learn of different ways of looking at the same thing, this never works for religion, unless the persons involved share a strong sense of trust, respect, wisdom and maturity - as well as a very good grasp of language.
Thus it is that whenever average people discuss religion (especially christianity) it soon turns into either a competition, an evangelistic affair, or a fight - or all three, in that order.
But then someone I know, who is fed up of the nonsense that passes for the fundamentalist view on Tuner, started a 'religiously-themed' thread just to see how foolish these goodly folk could get - and lad, did they ever.
Then I realised that the only view representing those who consider the teachings of the Christ more than just interesting, were a handful of blinded literalists whose only knowledge of scripture was what they were fed.
And here is my conundrum: When I read Bluefete's thread, I was quite certain the spouted nonsense I came across was precisely that - because of what I knew. Suppose I didn't know... then my assumption would be that despite whatever sense Jesus' words might make, his followers are all complete imbeciles. If a drink has a magnificent bouquet, but all who drink it go mad - then bet your last cent I ain't tasting it.
And so I decided (against the better judgment of most of my peers) to attempt to be the voice of reason - not for the benefit of Bluefete, or Sir Civic, or this Megadoc1... but for the curiously minded who might otherwise shy away from delving into what could result in a better understanding of why we all are here.
I have since realised Megadoc has learned that if he persists hard and long enough, other voices of reason get tired of his nonsense, and fall silent. In his little 'football match' concept of life, he sees that as 'winning' the argument. He doesn't realise that anyone who can't stand crap, will retire from the field when faced with a tireless madman who flings an endless stream of crap. It has absolutely nothing to do with being right or wrong.
At least Bluefete would attempt a vague form of discussion - until he got to the point where he couldn't handle the questions/argument, then he would change the topic. Good sir, I object!! What questions have I not answered?
However, dealing with someone who neither respects nor understands logic - far less the language he attempts to wield - is quite awkward, and holding a lucid discussion is made practically impossible.Is that because people cannot handle God's logic?
To make this discussion even more unwieldy, both Bluefete and Megadoc claim to have no ties to any community - even though Christianity by its very nature is a group belief - to the point of even trying to deny the 'label' of "Christian". So where did they get their information from? Why do they believe their sources? Their scripture? Christianity was good enough for 2000 years to keep these concepts alive, but not good enough for them? So how come some of these concepts kept alive by followers of this "not-good-enough" Christianity are not tainted? What makes these concepts correct, but those that helped form and nurture them not so? Why do other people believe the Gita & the Qu'ran?
sMASH wrote:^^ because they make more sense!
bluefete wrote:Good sir, I object!! What questions have I not answered?
Why do you call me good? None is good but God alone...
Why don't you direct this question to Duane and Nati et al... They could answer in depth compared to me.
You haven't as yet stated clearly why you think Avatar was a demonic movie. You just pulled some trash off the net - even on the net, those statements were negated. One example was the claim that "blue-skinned" aliens, as well as the use of the term "avatar", was insulting to Hindus. Hindus responded to those sites, stating they did not consider any of it the least bit insulting. This was but one such instance.
You never responded properly to my arguments for considering that movie actually had Christian themes. You only expounded on 'the taking of the Lord's name in vain' - something that happens in most action movies.
If you have the decency to scroll back, you will find multiple unanswered posts.
Is that because people cannot handle God's logic?
Don't be foolish. Logic is logic. Natural Law is based on logic.
And are you saying megadoc is being logical? By any stretch of the imagination, how is this so? Because he believes along the same lines as you? That does not make his arguments logical. Why don't you address this?
Why do other people believe the Gita & the Qu'ran?
Why else? They belong to a religion, and they subscribe to their religion's view of life and choice of scriptures... but the two of you claim NOT TO BELONG TO A RELIGION - hence my questions.
bluefete wrote:DFC wrote:so i wanna summon the devil and sell my soul.
(but i'm an athiest so its BS anyway..but i will try)
so i will sell my soul for magical powers an unlimited amounts of money.
with my powers i willl end the wars...and with money i will eradicate poverty.
also i will spread my seed to every fuener. like it or not.
before i die...i will repent and accept jesus as lord and saviour.
and...time for my soul to be collected (supposing i have a soul)
i made a pact with the devil for my soul.
but with the devils wealth i will doo sooo much good to humanity,
and before i die i will accept jesus.
So i will be saved!!
commonsense eh.
trick the devil.
am i the only one wanna try this?
The minute you sell your soul to the devil, you have totally rejected God.
What is there to go back to?
jockey-shorts wrote:Christians, ask yourselves this!!1
According to most Christians, Jesus was God-incarnate, full man and full God. Can the finite and the infinite be one? "To be full" God means freedom from finite forms and from helplessness, and to be "full man" means the absence of divinity.
1.To be son is to be less than divine and to be divine is to be no one's son. How could Jesus have the attributes of sonship and divinity altogether?
2.Christians assert that Jesus claimed to be God when they quote him in John 14:9: "He that has seen me has seen the Father". Didn't Jesus clearly say that people have never seen God, as it says in John 5:37: "And the father himself which has sent me, has borne witness of me. You have NEITHER HEARD HIS VOICE AT ANY TIME NOR SEEN HIS SHAPE"?
3.Christians say that Jesus was God because he was called Son of God, Son of Man, Messiah, and "saviour". Ezekiel was addressed in the Bible as Son of Man. Jesus spoke of "the peace makers" as Sons of God. Any person who followed the Will and Plan of God was called SON OF GOD in the Jewish tradition and in their language (Genesis 6:2,4; Exodus 4:22; Psalm 2:7; Romans 8:14). "Messiah" which in Hebrew means "God's anointed" and not "Christ", and "Cyrus" the person is called "Messiah" or "the anointed". As for "saviour", in II KINGS 13:5, other individuals were given that title too without being gods. So where is the proof in these terms that Jesus was God when the word son is not exclusively used for him alone?
4.Christians claim that Jesus acknowledged that he and God were one in the sense of nature when he says in John 10:30 "I and my father are one". Later on in John 17:21-23, Jesus refers to his followers and himself and God as one in five places. So why did they give the previous "one" a different meaning from the other five "ones"?
5.Is God three-in-one and one in three simultaneously or one at a time?
6.If God is one and three simultaneously, then none of the three could be the complete God. Granting that such was the case, then when Jesus was on earth, he wasn't a complete God, nor was the "father in Heaven" a whole God. Doesn't that contradict what Jesus always said about His God and our God in heaven, his Lord and our Lord ? Does that also mean that there was no complete god then, between the claimed crucifixion and the claimed resurrection?
7.If God is one and three at a time, then who was the God in heaven when Jesus was on earth? Wouldn't this contradict his many references to a God in Heaven that sent him?
8.If God is three and one at the same time, who was the God in Heaven within three days between the claimed crucifixion and the claimed resurrect ion?
9.Christians say that: "The Father(F) is God, the Son(S) is God, and the Holy Ghost(H) is God, but the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Ghost, and the Holy Ghost is not the Father". In simple arithmetic and terms therefore, if F = G, S = G, and H = G, then it follows that F = S = H, while the second part of the statement suggests that F ¹ S ¹ H (meaning, "not equal"). Isn't that a contradiction to the Christian dogma of Trinity in itself ?
10.If Jesus was God, why did he tell the man who called him "good master" not to call him "good" because accordingly, there is none good but his God in Heaven alone?
11.Why do Christians say that God is three-in-one and one in three when Jesus says in Mark 12:29: "The Lord our God is one Lord" in as many places as yet in the Bible?
12.If belief in the Trinity was such a necessary condition for being a Christian, why didn't Jesus teach and emphasize it to the Christians during his time? How were those followers of Jesus considered Christians without ever hearing the term Trinity? Had the Trinity been the spinal cord of Christianity, Jesus would have emphasized it on many occasions and would have taught and explained it in detail to the people.
13.Christians claim that Jesus was God as they quote in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". This is John speaking and not Jesus. Also, the Greek word for the first occurrence of God is HOTHEOS which means "the God" or "God" with a capital "G", while the Greek word for its second occurrence is "TONTHEOS", which means "a god " or "god" with a small "g". Isn't this dishonesty and inconsistency on the part of those translating the Greek Bible? ? Isn't such quotation in John 1:1 recognized by every Christian scholar of the Bible to have been written by a Jew named Philo Alexandria way before Jesus and John?
14.Wasn't the word "god" or "TONTHEOS" also used to refer to others as well as in II Corinthians 4:4 "(and the Devil is) the god of this world" and in Exodus 7:1 "See , I have made thee (Moses ) a god to Pharaoh"?
SALVATION:
Christians say that "GOD LOST His only son to save us". To whom did God lose Jesus if he owns the whole universe?
15. If it was agreeable with God's Majesty to have sons, He could have created a million sons the like of Jesus. So what is the big clear deal about this only son?
16.Why does the Bible say that Jesus wanted to die on the cross, when the one on the cross was shouting "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" according to Matthew 27:45 and Mark 15:33?
17. If God had wanted to save us, couldn't He have done that without sacrificing Jesus?
18. God is Just, and justice requires that nobody should be punished for the sins of others, nor should some people be saved by punishing other people. Doesn't the claim that God sacrificed Jesus to save us because He was Just, contradict the definition of justice?
19. People sacrifice things they have to get something they don't have when they can't have both. Christians say that "God SACRIFICED His only son to save us". We know that God is Almighty; to whom did He sacrifice Jesus?
20. A real sacrifice is when you can't get back what you have offered , so what would be the big deal about such a sacrifice if God could recover the same offering? (according to the Christians' terminology)?
21. If all the Christians are saved through Jesus and are going to Heaven no matter what they do, then the teachings of Jesus are irrelevant and the definition of good and bad are also rendered irrelevant. If this is not so, then do Christians who believe in Jesus yet do not follow his teachings nor repent go to Hell?
22. How can Christians take deeds as irrelevant after becoming one when Jesus says in Matthew 12:36; "But I say unto you that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the Day of Judgment. For by the words thou shalt be justified, by the words thou shalt be condemned"?
23. Christians say that people go to Heaven ONLY THROUGH JESUS, yet Paul says in 1 CORINTHIANS 7:8-16 that the unbelieving husband is acceptable to God because he is united with his wife and vice versa, and their pagan children are also acceptable to God. So people can go to heaven without believing in Jesus according to this.
24. How come the Bible says that ALL Israel is saved although they don't believe in Jesus? Doesn't that contradict the claim in the Bible that the only way to heaven is through Jesus?
25. According to Christians, those who have not been baptized will go to Hell. So even the infants and babies go to Hell if not baptized, since they are born with an inherited original sin. Doesn't this contradict the definition of justice? Why would God punish people for sins they never committed?
HOLY SPIRIT:
The only place in the Bible where the Paraclete was called the Holy Spirit is in John 4:26 "But the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance
all that I have said to you". What has the Holy Spirit brought or taught for the last 2000 years?
26.Christians say that the Paraclete means the Holy Spirit (John 14;26). Jesus said in John 16:7-8 "If I do not go away the Paraclete will not come to you". This could not mean the Holy spirit, since the Holy spirit was said to have been there before Jesus was even born as in Luke 1:41 "Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit".
Here, the Holy spirit was also present during Jesus life time. So how could this fit with the condition that Jesus must go away so that the Holy spirit will come?
27.In John 16:7-8, it says: "But if go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world of sins and of righteousness and of Judgment". What do "he" and "him" refer here? Do Not they refer to a man?
28.Does the Holy Spirit talk to good Christians and bad Christians as well? Is the Holy spirit with them all the time or just at certain times? When does it start visiting a person who wants to become a Christian?
29.How can you as a Christian tell if the Holy Spirit is inside another Christian? How come many Christians fooled people by claiming that the Holy spirit was inside them only to be converted to another religion later on ?
30.Does the Holy Spirit dictate what Christians should do without choice or freedom at all or does it only guide them and they have the freedom to follow or not ?
31.If the Holy Spirit dictates what Christian should do, why do Christians commit sins and make mistakes ? How can you explain the conversion to other religions and atheism of many Christians? Are they told to do that by the Holy Spirit?
32.If the Holy Spirit guides Christians only, and they are free to do what they want, then how do we know that the writers of the Gospels didn't make mistakes in writing them?
33.If Christians believe that the Holy Spirit comes and talks to them everyday, why don't they ask the Holy Spirit about which version of the Bible to follow since there are too many versions floating around?
MISSION OF JESUS:
Without borrowing from other religions and systems, can Christianity provide people with a complete way of life? Since Christianity is limited to spiritual life and does not provide law, how can a society decide which laws are right or wrong?
34.Why do the Christians say that Jesus came with a universal mission when he said that he was sent to the Jews only? He said to the Canaanite woman who asked him to heal her daughter from demon-possession: "I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel" and also said: "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs", Matthew 15:21-28.
RESSURECTION:
If you read Matthew (28:1-10), Mark (16:1-20), Luke (24:1-12), and John (20: 1-18), you will find contradicting stories. They all agreed that the tomb was guarded for three days. However, they reported the discovery of the empty tomb differently.
Matthew (28) and John (20) reported that Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were the first to discover the tomb. Mark (16) reports that Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome were the first to discover the empty tomb.
Mark (28) reports that there was an earthquake that removed the rock from over the tomb. He says that an angel caused it. The other gospels do not mention of an earthquake. Matthew and Mark say that only ONE man in white clothes was sitting on the tomb when the woman arrived, and that he was an angel.
Luke says that TWO men in white clothes, who were angels, were sitting. Johns says that the two women did not meet anybody the first time they came to the tomb, but when they returned, they saw TWO people, ONE was an ANGEL, and the other was JESUS.
Matthew reports that when the guards reported this to the chief priest, the chief priest paid them a large sum of
money, telling them: "You have to say that his disciples came at night and stole his body." He claims that the soldiers took money and spread the story around and since then, the story had been circulating among the Jews until today (according to Matthew).
The other gospels do not report of any such thing.
35. Which narration now is more authentic?
36.Why is the appearance of Jesus after the crucifixion taken as a proof of his resurrection when there is an explanation that he was not dead because someone else was crucified in his place when God saved Him?
37.How did Matthew know of the claimed agreement between the soldiers and the chief priest? Can't someone say that someone paid the women a large sum of money and told them to spread the word around that Jesus rose from the dead, with the same authenticity as that of the story of Matthew?
38.Why did they believe that man in the white clothes? Why did they believe he was an angel? John's narration is too strange, since he says that Mary did not recognize Jesus(one of the two) while talking to him, and she only recognized him when he called her by her name.
39.How does an empty tomb prove that Jesus was crucified ? Isn't it that God is capable of removing another man from the tomb, and of resurrecting him too?
40.The Gospels are believed to be the verbatim words of God, they are supposed to be dictated by the Holy Spirit to the Disciples who wrote them. If the source were the same, why shouldn't they correspond with
each other in reporting such an important event?
41.How could Matthew, Mark, Luke and John be considered eyewitnesses of resurrection when the Bible implies that nobody at all saw Jesus coming out of the tomb?
BIBLE:
If the Christians consider the Old Testament as God's Word, why did they cancel the parts of the Old Testament that dealt with punishment (example: the punishment for adultery)?
42.Why doesn't Mark 16:9-20 exist in as many versions of the Bible while it exists as a footnote or between brackets in some other versions? Is a footnote in the Bible still considered as God's word, especially when it
addresses an important feature like the Ascension?
43.Why does the Catholic Bible contain 73 books while the Protestant Bible has only 66? With both claiming to have the complete Word of God, which one should be believed and why?
44.Where do those new translations of the Bible keep coming from when the original Bible is not even available ? The Greek manuscripts which are translations themselves are not even similar with each other.
45.How can you take two gospels from writers who never met Jesus, like Mark and Luke?
46.Why is half of the New Testament written by a man who never even met Jesus in his lifetime? PAUL claimed with no proof that he had met Jesus while on his way from Jerusalem to Damascus. PAUL was the main enemy of Christianity. Isn't that reason enough to question the authenticity of what he wrote? Why do the Christians call those books of the Old Testament "God's Word" when the revisers of the RSV Bible say that some of the authors are UNKNOWN? They say that the author of SAMUEL is "UNKNOWN" and that of CHRONICLES is "UNKNOWN, PROBABLY COLLECTED AND EDITED BY EZRA"!
CONTRADICTIONS:
47.Concerning the controversial issues in the Bible, how can Christians decide by two-thirds majority what is God's Word and what is not, as the prefaces of some Bibles say like that one of the RSV ?
48.Why does Luke in his gospel report the Ascension on Easter Day, and in the Acts, in which he is recognized as the author, FORTY days later?
49.The genealogy of Jesus is mentioned in Matthew and Luke only. Matthew listed 26 forefathers from Joseph to David while Luke enumerated 41 forefathers. Only Joseph matches with Joseph in those two lists. Not a single other name matches! If these were inspired by God word by word, how could they be
different? Some claim that one is for Mary and one is for Joseph, but where does it
says Mary in those two Gospels?
50.If Moses wrote the first books of the Old Testament, how could Moses write his own obituary? Moses died in the fifth book at age 120 as mentioned in Deut. 34:5-10.
51.In the King James Version, why does it report SEVEN years of famine in II SAMUEL 24:13 while it reports THREE years of famine in I CHRONICLES 21:12? Why did they change both to THREE years in the New International Version and other versions?
52.Still In the same King James Version, why does it say that Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign in II CHRONICLES 21:12, while it says EIGHTEEN years in II KINGS 24:8? Why did thessey change in both to EIGHTEEN in the new Versions?
53.In all versions, why does it say that David slew the men of SEVEN HUNDRED chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand HORSEMEN as evidenced in II Samuel 10:18 while its says SEVEN THOUSAND men which fought in chariots, and forty thousand FOOTMEN, in I CHRONICLES 19:18?
54.In all versions, why does it report TWO thousand baths in I KINGS 7:26 while II CHRONICLES 4:5 reports THREE THOUSAND?
55.In the King James version, why does it report that Solomon had FOUR THOUSAND stalls for horses in II CHRONICLES 9:25 while it accounts that Solomon had FORTY THOUSAND stalls of horses in 1 KINGS 4:26? Why did they change both to FOUR THOUSAND in the new versions?
56.In GENESIS 1, God's creation progresses from grass to trees to fowls, whales, cattle and creeping things and finally to man and woman. GENESIS 2, however, puts the creation of man before cattle and fowl and woman
subsequent to beast. How can this be explained?
QUR'AN AND CHRISTIANS:
This section does not inquire or interrogate, but rather provides the reader with some of the Qur'anic verses that address the Christians in particular, and the people of the scripture in general. A great
portion of the Qur'an pertains to or involves the Christians and the Jews and I decided to just choose verses that are related to the topic of this manuscript.
"Lo! The likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then said unto him: Be, and he was." Al-Qur'an 3:59.
"Say: O People of the Scripture! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for Lords besides Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto him). "O People of the Scripture! Why will you argue about, when the Torah and the Gospel were revealed till
after him? Have you then no sense? Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an man who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters. Lo! Those of mankind who have the best claim to Abraham are those who followed him, and his Prophet and those who believe (with him); and Allah is the Protector of the believers. A party of the People of the Scripture longs to make you go; and they make none to go astray except themselves, but they perceive not. O People of the Scripture! Why disbelieve you in the revelations of Allah, when you (yourselves) bear witness to their truth? O People of the Scriptures! Why confound you truth with falsehood and knowingly conceal the Truth? (Al-Qur'an 3: 64-71)
And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him and in the hereafter, He will be one of the losers (Al-Qur'an 3:85).
Ê And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, and Allah's messenger. They slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them, and Lo! Those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain: But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise. (Al-Qur'an 4:157-158).
O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter ought concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him, so believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three"! Cease! (it is ) better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as defender. The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah, nor will the favoured angels. Whosoever scorns His service and is proud, all such will assemble unto Him. Then, as for those who believed and did good works, unto them will He give them their wages in full, adding unto them of His bounty; and as for those who were scornful and proud, then He will punish with a painful doom." (Al-qur'an 4:171-173).
"And with those who say Lo! We are Christians, We made a covenant, but they forgot a part of that whereof they were admonished. Therefore We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will inform them of their handiwork. O People of the Scripture! Now has our messenger come unto you, expounding unto you much of that which you used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much. Now has come unto light from Allah and plain scripture: Whereby Allah guides him who seeks His good pleasure unto paths of peace, He brings them out of darkness unto light by His decree, and guides them unto a Straight Path. They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do ought against Allah if he had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? allah's is the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He creates what he wills. And Allah is able to do all things. (Al-qur'an 5:14:17).
"They surely disbelieve who say; Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and you Lord. Lo! Whosoever ascribes partners unto Allah, for him Allah has forbidden Paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evildoers ,there will be no helpers.They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of the three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying, a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve. Will they not rather turn unto Allah and seek forgiveness of Him? For Allah is oft-forgiving, most merciful. Say: Serve you in place of Allah that which possesses for you neither hurt nor use? Allah is the Hearer, the Knower. Say: O People of the Scripture! Stress not in your religion other than the Truth, and follow not the vain desire of folks who erred of old and led many astray, and erred from a plain road." (Al-qur'an 5:72-77)
"And when Allah says: O Jesus, son of Mary: Did you say unto mankind: take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?, he says: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then You Knew it, You know what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Your mind. Lo! You, only You, are the knower of things hidden. I spoke unto them only that which You commanded me (saying); worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when You took me, You were the Watcher over them. You are witness over all things. If You punish them, Lo! They are Your slaves, and if you forgive them (Lo! They are Your slaves). Lo! You, only you are the Mighty, the Wise. Allah says: This is a day in which their truthfulness profits the truthful, for theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they are secure forever, Allah taking pleasure in them and they in Him. That is the great triumph. (Al-qur'an 5:116-119)
"And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: 'The Messiah is the son of Allah'. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah fights against them. How perverse they are! They have taken as Lord besides Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One God. There is no God save Him. Be He glorified from all that they ascribe as partners (unto him)! Faint would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah disdains (ought) save that He shall perfect His light, however much the disbelievers are averse. He it is Who has sent His messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to cause it to prevail over all religions, however much the idolaters may be averse. O you who believe! Lo! many of the (Jewish) rabbis and the (Christian) monks devour the wealth of mankind wantonly and debar (people) from the way of Allah. They who hoard up gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah, unto them give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom. On the Day when it will (all) be heated in the fire of Hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be branded therewith (and it will be said unto them): Here is that which you hoarded for yourselves. Now taste of what you used to hoard." (Al-qur'an 9:30-35).
MUHAMMAD OR JESUS?
Christians claim that the prophecy in Deut. 18:18 refers to Jesus and not Muhammad. The verse says: "I will raise them up a prophet from among THEIR BRETHREN, LIKE UNTO THEE, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." The only reason they resort to such
interpretation is that both Moses and Jesus were prophets. Even this one contradicts their claim that Jesus was God and not a Prophet. Many prophets of the Jews had the similarity with Moses. However, if we compare Muhammad to Moses, we will find that:
Muhammad was an Arab, and the Arabs are from Ishmael, son of Abraham, while Moses was a Jew, and the Jews are from Isaac, son of Abraham. Hence, the term THEIR BRETHREN refers to the children of the first son being brethren of the children of the other. This couldn't apply to Jesus, since he was a Jew.
According to the Christians, Jesus went to Hell for three days while Moses did not. Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses. (In Islam, none of the three Prophets went to Hell)
Moses and Muhammad were born to fathers and mothers while Jesus was born to a mother alone.
Moses and Muhammad got married and had children, while Jesus did not marry at all.
Moses and Muhammad got problems and difficulties from their people initially, but were accepted by them at the end., whereas Jesus was rejected by his people at the start and is still rejected by the Jews until today. "He (Jesus) came unto his own, but his own received him not". ( John 1:11)
Moses and Muhammad had power, besides being prophets. They both performed some capital punishments, for example, while Jesus had no power over his people. "My kingdom is not of this world", Jesus said in John 18:36 .
Moses and Muhammad brought new laws while Jesus did not.
Moses was forced to emigrate in adulthood to Median while Muhammad was forced to emigrate at that stage in his life too, towards Madina . Whereas Jesus did not have such forced emigration in his adulthood .
Moses and Muhammad both died of natural deaths after which they were buried ,while the same could not be said of Jesus. He was neither killed nor crucified at all, according to the Qur'an and did not die a 'natural'
death as could be affirmed by Christians who believe in Crucifixion.
FINAL QUESTIONS:
57.Why won't you, Christian reader, come to hear and learn of the true religion of Jesus?
58.Have you, as a Christian , learned of Islam and if so, was it from the true Muslims?
59.As a Christian, do you agree that out of fairness and honesty you must investigate what Islam says about God, Jesus, including this life and the hereafter?
60.Being a Christian, do you also believe that we must all stand accountable to our Creator and that the Creator is Perfect and Just? As a sincere believer in God, don't you owe it upon yourself to find out the entire unadulterated truth regardless of the consequences?
We invite you to read, learn or ask information about Islam.
bluefete wrote:jockey-shorts wrote:Christians, ask yourselves this!!1
According to most Christians, Jesus was God-incarnate, full man and full God. Can the finite and the infinite be one? "To be full" God means freedom from finite forms and from helplessness, and to be "full man" means the absence of divinity.
1.To be son is to be less than divine and to be divine is to be no one's son. How could Jesus have the attributes of sonship and divinity altogether?"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us ..." John 1:1,14
2.Christians assert that Jesus claimed to be God when they quote him in John 14:9: "He that has seen me has seen the Father". Didn't Jesus clearly say that people have never seen God, as it says in John 5:37: "And the father himself which has sent me, has borne witness of me. You have NEITHER HEARD HIS VOICE AT ANY TIME NOR SEEN HIS SHAPE"?"And lo, a voice from heaven saying, This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased." Matthew 3:17
3.Christians say that Jesus was God because he was called Son of God, Son of Man, Messiah, and "saviour". Ezekiel was addressed in the Bible as Son of Man. Jesus spoke of "the peace makers" as Sons of God. Any person who followed the Will and Plan of God was called SON OF GOD in the Jewish tradition and in their language (Genesis 6:2,4; Exodus 4:22; Psalm 2:7; Romans 8:14). "Messiah" which in Hebrew means "God's anointed" and not "Christ", and "Cyrus" the person is called "Messiah" or "the anointed". As for "saviour", in II KINGS 13:5, other individuals were given that title too without being gods. So where is the proof in these terms that Jesus was God when the word son is not exclusively used for him alone? 14:61 ... Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mark 14:61-62
5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. John 5:18
4.Christians claim that Jesus acknowledged that he and God were one in the sense of nature when he says in John 10:30 "I and my father are one". Later on in John 17:21-23, Jesus refers to his followers and himself and God as one in five places. So why did they give the previous "one" a different meaning from the other five "ones"? Jesus was reinforcing His statement from John 10:30 when he addressed the Jews. In John 17:21-23 he was praying to the Father and asking that the disciples would have the same relationship with God as Jesus had with Him
5.Is God three-in-one and one in three simultaneously or one at a time?There are three forms of the one God. God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Three in One. Not one in three.
6.If God is one and three simultaneously, then none of the three could be the complete God. Granting that such was the case, then when Jesus was on earth, he wasn't a complete God, nor was the "father in Heaven" a whole God. Doesn't that contradict what Jesus always said about His God and our God in heaven, his Lord and our Lord ? Does that also mean that there was no complete god then, between the claimed crucifixion and the claimed resurrection? God the Father is more powerful than Jesus and the Holy Spirit. God the Father is total and complete. He sent Jesus on earth to redeem us. Jesus the Redeemer. The Holy Spirit is the Comforter.
7.If God is one and three at a time, then who was the God in heaven when Jesus was on earth? Wouldn't this contradict his many references to a God in Heaven that sent him?God the Father was in Heaven. No, it does not contradict anything.
8.If God is three and one at the same time, who was the God in Heaven within three days between the claimed crucifixion and the claimed resurrect ion?God the Father! Jesus was busy preaching to those who had died before.
9.Christians say that: "The Father(F) is God, the Son(S) is God, and the Holy Ghost(H) is God, but the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Ghost, and the Holy Ghost is not the Father". In simple arithmetic and terms therefore, if F = G, S = G, and H = G, then it follows that F = S = H, while the second part of the statement suggests that F ¹ S ¹ H (meaning, "not equal"). Isn't that a contradiction to the Christian dogma of Trinity in itself ?You are trying to apply mathematical concepts to a spiritual dimension. It cannot work. F=S=H is not a true derivative from the previous statement. There is no contradiction. God the Father is head honcho.
10.If Jesus was God, why did he tell the man who called him "good master" not to call him "good" because accordingly, there is none good but his God in Heaven alone?[b]To drive home the point. All goodness resides in God the Father.[/b]
11.Why do Christians say that God is three-in-one and one in three when Jesus says in Mark 12:29: "The Lord our God is one Lord" in as many places as yet in the Bible? We also agree with Jesus. There is only one God.
12.If belief in the Trinity was such a necessary condition for being a Christian, why didn't Jesus teach and emphasize it to the Christians during his time? How were those followers of Jesus considered Christians without ever hearing the term Trinity? Had the Trinity been the spinal cord of Christianity, Jesus would have emphasized it on many occasions and would have taught and explained it in detail to the people. 7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7
They may not have heard the term Trinity but they were very familiar with the concept.
13.Christians claim that Jesus was God as they quote in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". This is John speaking and not Jesus. Also, the Greek word for the first occurrence of God is HOTHEOS which means "the God" or "God" with a capital "G", while the Greek word for its second occurrence is "TONTHEOS", which means "a god " or "god" with a small "g". Isn't this dishonesty and inconsistency on the part of those translating the Greek Bible? ? Isn't such quotation in John 1:1 recognized by every Christian scholar of the Bible to have been written by a Jew named Philo Alexandria way before Jesus and John?You are quoting out of context. Let me give you the entire thing in context:
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
19And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
20And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
21And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
22Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
23He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
24And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.
25And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
26John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
27He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
28These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
30This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
31And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
32And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
34And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
35Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
36And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
37And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
38Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?
39He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour.
40One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.
41He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
42And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.
43The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.
44Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.
45Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
46And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
47Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
49Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
50Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
51And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
King James Version (KJV)
14.Wasn't the word "god" or "TONTHEOS" also used to refer to others as well as in II Corinthians 4:4 "(and the Devil is) the god of this world" and in Exodus 7:1 "See , I have made thee (Moses ) a god to Pharaoh"?
SALVATION:
Christians say that "GOD LOST His only son to save us". To whom did God lose Jesus if he owns the whole universe?Those are some nutty Christians. God NEVER lost His only son. God SENT His son to redeem us.
15. If it was agreeable with God's Majesty to have sons, He could have created a million sons the like of Jesus. So what is the big clear deal about this only son? But He did not create a million sons like Jesus. Just as he did not create a million sons like Satan.
Matthew 28:18-20 (King James Version)
18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
16.Why does the Bible say that Jesus wanted to die on the cross, when the one on the cross was shouting "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" according to Matthew 27:45 and Mark 15:33?Jesus' suffering and death on the cross showed Him at His most human. Even before His crucifixion, Jesus was aware of the terrible suffering He would have to undergo.
Matthew 26:38-39 (King James Version)
38Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
39And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
17. If God had wanted to save us, couldn't He have done that without sacrificing Jesus?God can do anything He wants. Sending Jesus was part of His plan.
18. God is Just, and justice requires that nobody should be punished for the sins of others, nor should some people be saved by punishing other people. Doesn't the claim that God sacrificed Jesus to save us because He was Just, contradict the definition of justice? How does justice come into this? Well, if you are speaking of someone who was wronged, the God's logic trumps all. We sinned against God. Yet God sent Jesus to save us. That is some twisted logic, not so?
19. People sacrifice things they have to get something they don't have when they can't have both. Christians say that "God SACRIFICED His only son to save us". We know that God is Almighty; to whom did He sacrifice Jesus? Where do you find these nutty Christians?
Jesus died to bring us back to God. Jesus was not sacrificed to anyone or anything.
20. A real sacrifice is when you can't get back what you have offered , so what would be the big deal about such a sacrifice if God could recover the same offering? (according to the Christians' terminology)? You are missing the point. We were the objectives of the sacrifice. Without Jesus, you would have no way of going to heaven. Even all the people who died before Jesus came were visited/preached by Him when he died.
21. If all the Christians are saved through Jesus and are going to Heaven no matter what they do, then the teachings of Jesus are irrelevant and the definition of good and bad are also rendered irrelevant. If this is not so, then do Christians who believe in Jesus yet do not follow his teachings nor repent go to Hell? Not so ,at all. We are still given a rule book/procedures to follow.
10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Mark 10:25
22. How can Christians take deeds as irrelevant after becoming one when Jesus says in Matthew 12:36; "But I say unto you that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the Day of Judgment. For by the words thou shalt be justified, by the words thou shalt be condemned"? Who says we view deeds as irrelevant?
23. Christians say that people go to Heaven ONLY THROUGH JESUS, yet Paul says in 1 CORINTHIANS 7:8-16 that the unbelieving husband is acceptable to God because he is united with his wife and vice versa, and their pagan children are also acceptable to God. So people can go to heaven without believing in Jesus according to this. I have previously mentioned this in the 'God' thread.
24. How come the Bible says that ALL Israel is saved although they don't believe in Jesus? Doesn't that contradict the claim in the Bible that the only way to heaven is through Jesus? Israel does not accept jesus as the Redeemer or Messiah.
25. According to Christians, those who have not been baptized will go to Hell. So even the infants and babies go to Hell if not baptized, since they are born with an inherited original sin. Doesn't this contradict the definition of justice? Why would God punish people for sins they never committed?This is not of God. Rubbish doctrine from the Church.
HOLY SPIRIT:
The only place in the Bible where the Paraclete was called the Holy Spirit is in John 4:26 "But the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance
all that I have said to you". What has the Holy Spirit brought or taught for the last 2000 years? The Holy Spirit is still working in a mighty way. Healing the sick, converting people and so on.
26.Christians say that the Paraclete means the Holy Spirit (John 14;26). Jesus said in John 16:7-8 "If I do not go away the Paraclete will not come to you". This could not mean the Holy spirit, since the Holy spirit was said to have been there before Jesus was even born as in Luke 1:41 "Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit".
Here, the Holy spirit was also present during Jesus life time. So how could this fit with the condition that Jesus must go away so that the Holy spirit will come? When Jesus was on earth, He was filled with the Holy Spirit. When he died, his side was speared with a lance and out came "blood and water". He had to go back to heaven to send the Holy spirit.
2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:1-4
27.In John 16:7-8, it says: "But if go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world of sins and of righteousness and of Judgment". What do "he" and "him" refer here? Do Not they refer to a man?The Holy Spirit.
28.Does the Holy Spirit talk to good Christians and bad Christians as well? Is the Holy spirit with them all the time or just at certain times? When does it start visiting a person who wants to become a Christian?The Holy Spirit can work through ordinary people as well. So it can send an ordinary person to someone who wants to become a christian.
8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
8:27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
8:28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
8:30 And Philip ran thither to [him], and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
8:33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
8:36 And as they went on [their] way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, [here is] water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Acts 8:26-39
29.How can you as a Christian tell if the Holy Spirit is inside another Christian? How come many Christians fooled people by claiming that the Holy spirit was inside them only to be converted to another religion later on ?God will give you the spirit of discernment.
30.Does the Holy Spirit dictate what Christians should do without choice or freedom at all or does it only guide them and they have the freedom to follow or not ?It guides.
31.If the Holy Spirit dictates what Christian should do, why do Christians commit sins and make mistakes ? How can you explain the conversion to other religions and atheism of many Christians? Are they told to do that by the Holy Spirit? Because they are human. Many people fall back into their old habits. It takes great faith and strength to stay on the straight and narrow. People become disenchanted and perceive that the grass is greener on the other side.
32.If the Holy Spirit guides Christians only, and they are free to do what they want, then how do we know that the writers of the Gospels didn't make mistakes in writing them? These writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit / Guided by God.
33.If Christians believe that the Holy Spirit comes and talks to them everyday, why don't they ask the Holy Spirit about which version of the Bible to follow since there are too many versions floating around? The work of the devil. "You have changed my mountains into hills."
MISSION OF JESUS:
Without borrowing from other religions and systems, can Christianity provide people with a complete way of life? Since Christianity is limited to spiritual life and does not provide law, how can a society decide which laws are right or wrong?The Bible is the perfect manual for living and the afterlife.
34.Why do the Christians say that Jesus came with a universal mission when he said that he was sent to the Jews only? He said to the Canaanite woman who asked him to heal her daughter from demon-possession: "I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel" and also said: "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs", Matthew 15:21-28. Jesus did not only preach to the Jews but also to the Gentiles.
RESSURECTION:
If you read Matthew (28:1-10), Mark (16:1-20), Luke (24:1-12), and John (20: 1-18), you will find contradicting stories. They all agreed that the tomb was guarded for three days. However, they reported the discovery of the empty tomb differently.
Matthew (28) and John (20) reported that Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were the first to discover the tomb. Mark (16) reports that Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome were the first to discover the empty tomb.
Mark (28) reports that there was an earthquake that removed the rock from over the tomb. He says that an angel caused it. The other gospels do not mention of an earthquake. Matthew and Mark say that only ONE man in white clothes was sitting on the tomb when the woman arrived, and that he was an angel.
Luke says that TWO men in white clothes, who were angels, were sitting. Johns says that the two women did not meet anybody the first time they came to the tomb, but when they returned, they saw TWO people, ONE was an ANGEL, and the other was JESUS.
Matthew reports that when the guards reported this to the chief priest, the chief priest paid them a large sum of
money, telling them: "You have to say that his disciples came at night and stole his body." He claims that the soldiers took money and spread the story around and since then, the story had been circulating among the Jews until today (according to Matthew).
The other gospels do not report of any such thing.
35. Which narration now is more authentic? What do these accounts all agree on? That Jesus rose from the dead. They also agree on the conspiracy that was hatched to discredit the resurrection of Jesus. Remember that Matthew and John were eyewitnesses to history. Therefore, the description of what happened, the earthquake, the guards falling like dead men and so on could only have come from the people who were actually present. Imagine this happening in Trinidad & Tobago? Do you think people would keep quiet about what they had seen? No matter how much money was paid to them to shut up? somebody must talk.
36.Why is the appearance of Jesus after the crucifixion taken as a proof of his resurrection when there is an explanation that he was not dead because someone else was crucified in his place when God saved Him? [b][color=#4000FF]Where is the proof?[/color][/b]
37.How did Matthew know of the claimed agreement between the soldiers and the chief priest? Can't someone say that someone paid the women a large sum of money and told them to spread the word around that Jesus rose from the dead, with the same authenticity as that of the story of Matthew? The women were not present for the resurrection. The soldiers who were guarding the tomb, were.
38.Why did they believe that man in the white clothes? Why did they believe he was an angel? John's narration is too strange, since he says that Mary did not recognize Jesus(one of the two) while talking to him, and she only recognized him when he called her by her name. Mary was not the only one who did not recognize Jesus. The same day 2 other disciples did not recognize Him although he journeyed with them on the road to Emmaus. After His resurrection, Jesus was a totally different person transcending between the physical and spirit worlds.
39.How does an empty tomb prove that Jesus was crucified ? Isn't it that God is capable of removing another man from the tomb, and of resurrecting him too? Eyewitness accounts.
40.The Gospels are believed to be the verbatim words of God, they are supposed to be dictated by the Holy Spirit to the Disciples who wrote them. If the source were the same, why shouldn't they correspond with
each other in reporting such an important event? Let us be practical for a minute. Luke has a comprehensive account of the events before and after the birth of Christ. He could have gotten all the details from Mary, the mother of Jesus. How hard would that be, if they were contemporaries?
41.How could Matthew, Mark, Luke and John be considered eyewitnesses of resurrection when the Bible implies that nobody at all saw Jesus coming out of the tomb? Refer to #37
BIBLE:
If the Christians consider the Old Testament as God's Word, why did they cancel the parts of the Old Testament that dealt with punishment (example: the punishment for adultery)? Remember Jesus' famous words? "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone?"
42.Why doesn't Mark 16:9-20 exist in as many versions of the Bible while it exists as a footnote or between brackets in some other versions? Is a footnote in the Bible still considered as God's word, especially when it
addresses an important feature like the Ascension?I work with the good old King James Version and it has mark 16:9-20 in plain text. People keep revising the Bible to suit their own programmes.
43.Why does the Catholic Bible contain 73 books while the Protestant Bible has only 66? With both claiming to have the complete Word of God, which one should be believed and why? To confuse people more. There are many books not in the Bible which support the Bible. The theologians would best be able to answer this one.
44.Where do those new translations of the Bible keep coming from when the original Bible is not even available ? The Greek manuscripts which are translations themselves are not even similar with each other. Revisionist scripture.
45.How can you take two gospels from writers who never met Jesus, like Mark and Luke?They were contemporaries of jesus' disciples.
46.Why is half of the New Testament written by a man who never even met Jesus in his lifetime? PAUL claimed with no proof that he had met Jesus while on his way from Jerusalem to Damascus. PAUL was the main enemy of Christianity. Isn't that reason enough to question the authenticity of what he wrote? Why do the Christians call those books of the Old Testament "God's Word" when the revisers of the RSV Bible say that some of the authors are UNKNOWN? They say that the author of SAMUEL is "UNKNOWN" and that of CHRONICLES is "UNKNOWN, PROBABLY COLLECTED AND EDITED BY EZRA"! Paul had an encounter with Jesus in which Jesus revealed himself to Paul.
CONTRADICTIONS:
47.Concerning the controversial issues in the Bible, how can Christians decide by two-thirds majority what is God's Word and what is not, as the prefaces of some Bibles say like that one of the RSV ?I stick with the KJV.
48.Why does Luke in his gospel report the Ascension on Easter Day, and in the Acts, in which he is recognized as the author, FORTY days later? NOT TRUE. Luke does no such thing in his gospel. Go re-read Luke 24:50-53
49.The genealogy of Jesus is mentioned in Matthew and Luke only. Matthew listed 26 forefathers from Joseph to David while Luke enumerated 41 forefathers. Only Joseph matches with Joseph in those two lists. Not a single other name matches! If these were inspired by God word by word, how could they be
different? Some claim that one is for Mary and one is for Joseph, but where does it
says Mary in those two Gospels? One goes back to Abraham, one goes back to Adam!!
50.If Moses wrote the first books of the Old Testament, how could Moses write his own obituary? Moses died in the fifth book at age 120 as mentioned in Deut. 34:5-10.Don't know who said that Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Bible. But it is not inconceivable for someone to write their own obituary while alive. People do it even up to today.
51.In the King James Version, why does it report SEVEN years of famine in II SAMUEL 24:13 while it reports THREE years of famine in I CHRONICLES 21:12? Why did they change both to THREE years in the New International Version and other versions? Got me there. Revisionist history again.
52.Still In the same King James Version, why does it say that Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign in II CHRONICLES 21:12, while it says EIGHTEEN years in II KINGS 24:8? Why did thessey change in both to EIGHTEEN in the new Versions?Maybe they went back to the source documents and had another look. Again only the theologians can answer this one, 53, 54 & 55
53.In all versions, why does it say that David slew the men of SEVEN HUNDRED chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand HORSEMEN as evidenced in II Samuel 10:18 while its says SEVEN THOUSAND men which fought in chariots, and forty thousand FOOTMEN, in I CHRONICLES 19:18?
54.In all versions, why does it report TWO thousand baths in I KINGS 7:26 while II CHRONICLES 4:5 reports THREE THOUSAND?
55.In the King James version, why does it report that Solomon had FOUR THOUSAND stalls for horses in II CHRONICLES 9:25 while it accounts that Solomon had FORTY THOUSAND stalls of horses in 1 KINGS 4:26? Why did they change both to FOUR THOUSAND in the new versions?
56.In GENESIS 1, God's creation progresses from grass to trees to fowls, whales, cattle and creeping things and finally to man and woman. GENESIS 2, however, puts the creation of man before cattle and fowl and woman
subsequent to beast. How can this be explained? NOT TRUE! Genesis 2 provides more details on how God went about instructing man. The animals were created before man that is why when God made Adam he instructed Him to give names to all of them. Woman was made after man. Ch. 2 just gives the details to back up Ch. 1.
QUR'AN AND CHRISTIANS:
This section does not inquire or interrogate, but rather provides the reader with some of the Qur'anic verses that address the Christians in particular, and the people of the scripture in general. A great
portion of the Qur'an pertains to or involves the Christians and the Jews and I decided to just choose verses that are related to the topic of this manuscript.
"Lo! The likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then said unto him: Be, and he was." Al-Qur'an 3:59.
"Say: O People of the Scripture! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for Lords besides Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto him). "O People of the Scripture! Why will you argue about, when the Torah and the Gospel were revealed till
after him? Have you then no sense? Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an man who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters. Lo! Those of mankind who have the best claim to Abraham are those who followed him, and his Prophet and those who believe (with him); and Allah is the Protector of the believers. A party of the People of the Scripture longs to make you go; and they make none to go astray except themselves, but they perceive not. O People of the Scripture! Why disbelieve you in the revelations of Allah, when you (yourselves) bear witness to their truth? O People of the Scriptures! Why confound you truth with falsehood and knowingly conceal the Truth? (Al-Qur'an 3: 64-71)
And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him and in the hereafter, He will be one of the losers (Al-Qur'an 3:85).
Ê And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, and Allah's messenger. They slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them, and Lo! Those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain: But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise. (Al-Qur'an 4:157-158).
O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter ought concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him, so believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three"! Cease! (it is ) better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as defender. The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah, nor will the favoured angels. Whosoever scorns His service and is proud, all such will assemble unto Him. Then, as for those who believed and did good works, unto them will He give them their wages in full, adding unto them of His bounty; and as for those who were scornful and proud, then He will punish with a painful doom." (Al-qur'an 4:171-173).
"And with those who say Lo! We are Christians, We made a covenant, but they forgot a part of that whereof they were admonished. Therefore We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will inform them of their handiwork. O People of the Scripture! Now has our messenger come unto you, expounding unto you much of that which you used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much. Now has come unto light from Allah and plain scripture: Whereby Allah guides him who seeks His good pleasure unto paths of peace, He brings them out of darkness unto light by His decree, and guides them unto a Straight Path. They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do ought against Allah if he had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? allah's is the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He creates what he wills. And Allah is able to do all things. (Al-qur'an 5:14:17).
"They surely disbelieve who say; Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and you Lord. Lo! Whosoever ascribes partners unto Allah, for him Allah has forbidden Paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evildoers ,there will be no helpers.They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of the three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying, a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve. Will they not rather turn unto Allah and seek forgiveness of Him? For Allah is oft-forgiving, most merciful. Say: Serve you in place of Allah that which possesses for you neither hurt nor use? Allah is the Hearer, the Knower. Say: O People of the Scripture! Stress not in your religion other than the Truth, and follow not the vain desire of folks who erred of old and led many astray, and erred from a plain road." (Al-qur'an 5:72-77)
"And when Allah says: O Jesus, son of Mary: Did you say unto mankind: take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?, he says: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then You Knew it, You know what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Your mind. Lo! You, only You, are the knower of things hidden. I spoke unto them only that which You commanded me (saying); worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when You took me, You were the Watcher over them. You are witness over all things. If You punish them, Lo! They are Your slaves, and if you forgive them (Lo! They are Your slaves). Lo! You, only you are the Mighty, the Wise. Allah says: This is a day in which their truthfulness profits the truthful, for theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they are secure forever, Allah taking pleasure in them and they in Him. That is the great triumph. (Al-qur'an 5:116-119)
"And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: 'The Messiah is the son of Allah'. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah fights against them. How perverse they are! They have taken as Lord besides Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One God. There is no God save Him. Be He glorified from all that they ascribe as partners (unto him)! Faint would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah disdains (ought) save that He shall perfect His light, however much the disbelievers are averse. He it is Who has sent His messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to cause it to prevail over all religions, however much the idolaters may be averse. O you who believe! Lo! many of the (Jewish) rabbis and the (Christian) monks devour the wealth of mankind wantonly and debar (people) from the way of Allah. They who hoard up gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah, unto them give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom. On the Day when it will (all) be heated in the fire of Hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be branded therewith (and it will be said unto them): Here is that which you hoarded for yourselves. Now taste of what you used to hoard." (Al-qur'an 9:30-35).
MUHAMMAD OR JESUS?
Christians claim that the prophecy in Deut. 18:18 refers to Jesus and not Muhammad. The verse says: "I will raise them up a prophet from among THEIR BRETHREN, LIKE UNTO THEE, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." The only reason they resort to such
interpretation is that both Moses and Jesus were prophets. Even this one contradicts their claim that Jesus was God and not a Prophet. Many prophets of the Jews had the similarity with Moses. However, if we compare Muhammad to Moses, we will find that:
Muhammad was an Arab, and the Arabs are from Ishmael, son of Abraham, while Moses was a Jew, and the Jews are from Isaac, son of Abraham. Hence, the term THEIR BRETHREN refers to the children of the first son being brethren of the children of the other. This couldn't apply to Jesus, since he was a Jew.
According to the Christians, Jesus went to Hell for three days while Moses did not. Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses. (In Islam, none of the three Prophets went to Hell)
Moses and Muhammad were born to fathers and mothers while Jesus was born to a mother alone.
Moses and Muhammad got married and had children, while Jesus did not marry at all.
Moses and Muhammad got problems and difficulties from their people initially, but were accepted by them at the end., whereas Jesus was rejected by his people at the start and is still rejected by the Jews until today. "He (Jesus) came unto his own, but his own received him not". ( John 1:11)
Moses and Muhammad had power, besides being prophets. They both performed some capital punishments, for example, while Jesus had no power over his people. "My kingdom is not of this world", Jesus said in John 18:36 .
Moses and Muhammad brought new laws while Jesus did not.
Moses was forced to emigrate in adulthood to Median while Muhammad was forced to emigrate at that stage in his life too, towards Madina . Whereas Jesus did not have such forced emigration in his adulthood .
Moses and Muhammad both died of natural deaths after which they were buried ,while the same could not be said of Jesus. He was neither killed nor crucified at all, according to the Qur'an and did not die a 'natural'
death as could be affirmed by Christians who believe in Crucifixion.
FINAL QUESTIONS:
57.Why won't you, Christian reader, come to hear and learn of the true religion of Jesus? Are you implying that Jesus was a Muslim? How could that be when Islam did not exist until about 1400 years ago?
58.Have you, as a Christian , learned of Islam and if so, was it from the true Muslims?What is a true Muslim and how will you find him/her?
59.As a Christian, do you agree that out of fairness and honesty you must investigate what Islam says about God, Jesus, including this life and the hereafter? No. But I do read the Qu'ran anyway.
60.Being a Christian, do you also believe that we must all stand accountable to our Creator and that the Creator is Perfect and Just? As a sincere believer in God, don't you owe it upon yourself to find out the entire unadulterated truth regardless of the consequences? Yes
We invite you to read, learn or ask information about Islam.
You gave me a real workout there. Those were all excellent questions and observations.
Mr Gear wrote:
No one is condemned to hell from the off by God. No one.
megadoc1 wrote:works of righteousness is when you do good thing on your own ,that can't get you to heaven, God sees that as being prideful.
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