Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

[Mr. Red Sleeper]

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Problem Sighted...



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[Mr. Red Sleeper]

That said, it is almost impossible to remove TTASA

Nothings impossible.
Testicular fortitude and unity by our people can get this done.
We trinis could get anything we really want, done.

[ek4ever]

First thing would be to get into discussions with TTASA which has failed in the past, or get rid of the lot and start over with a new team.

I like this approach. Maybe it's time we the motorsport enthusiasts put up or shut up. What we need is an organisation run by ppl who are passionate about the sport and will put the interest of the sport first and foremost. TTASA has proven itself unable to do so year after year ....so many years and so little to show for it not to mention having such a poor reputation and myopic view of things. A successful Motorsports industry is not only about putting on events once in a while but having a strategic, long term approach to developing the entire gamut of motorsports related businesses.

This industry is far more than a drag race every other weekend or rally once a year. It has the potential to create significant gains in tourism, employment, R&D, education (think UTI), consultancy services, engineering services, etc. As you can see we need ppl who can see the big picture and can commit to staying the course. We should be aiming for much more than a race venue .... a vibrant, all encompassing motorsports industry should be the target. Government keep talking about diversification diversification. Well here is a golden opportunity, an industry which already has massive support and potential for much more (locally, regionally and international) just waiting to be taken seriously to show its true potential.

[White CZ4A]

First thing would be to get into discussions with TTASA which has failed in the past, or get rid of the lot and start over with a new team.

I like this approach. Maybe it's time we the motorsport enthusiasts put up or shut up. What we need is an organisation run by ppl who are passionate about the sport and will put the interest of the sport first and foremost. TTASA has proven itself unable to do so year after year ....so many years and so little to show for it not to mention having such a poor reputation and myopic view of things. A successful Motorsports industry is not only about putting on events once in a while but having a strategic, long term approach to developing the entire gamut of motorsports related businesses.

This industry is far more than a drag race every other weekend or rally once a year. It has the potential to create significant gains in tourism, employment, R&D, education (think UTI), consultancy services, engineering services, etc. As you can see we need ppl who can see the big picture and can commit to staying the course. We should be aiming for much more than a race venue .... a vibrant, all encompassing motorsports industry should be the target. Government keep talking about diversification diversification. Well here is a golden opportunity, an industry which already has massive support and potential for much more (locally, regionally and international) just waiting to be taken seriously to show its true potential.

agreed!
this is why I am saying that the Ministry of Sport should get DIRECTLY involved.

[ek4ever]

So what would it take to get rid of TTASA???

But seriously .... what would it take or how would we go about putting in place an organisation that is really serious about motorsports and developing the industry?

[Mr. Red Sleeper]

Someone with deep pockets the contents of which are shared among the "necessary " people.



Or boycott all events as previously stated.

And start full fledged street racing where if anyone is to be arrested, all will be arrested, which in itself will form a common - goaled group of people.


Doh ban meh. Im not condoning street racing. Just weighing options.

[UML]

Boycott TTasa?
Call fo rnew heads/ideas/ people with less issues?

all the racers have to do is stop supporting their events and make their stance known that they wont support if TTASA is still in control
autosport has been doing dam good job with their events
as well as the other associations

and stop going and giving them ur hard earned $100 to pocket

no money to make from government no money to take from the spectators....and they not going tuh use dey own money for the love of the sport at all

[UML]

not sure if these details correct......could u do something like how the doctors (i think) stopped supporting their union and started supporting mpatt and mpatt became recognised as the union because of the support they had?

so by not showing interest in them and their events the other association gets all the support and spectators and ttasa gets booted?

just asking eh (i know it was mentioned already that all associations have to cooperate)

[Lucian-2nr]

One year boycott to be free of them so that motorsports can grow in Trinidad, is it that hard for to take a break for a better future? If you pay to race or go to the event then STFU and take your strokes! Cause you are part of the problem. Real Talk!

Trinidad has everything to become the number one country for motorsports in the Caribbean but that's only if the sheep stop following the blind.

[cinco]

One year boycott to be free of them so that motorsports can grow in Trinidad, is it that hard for to take a break for a better future? If you pay to race or go to the event then STFU and take your strokes! Cause you are part of the problem. Real Talk!

Trinidad has everything to become the number one country for motorsports in the Caribbean but that's only if the sheep stop following the blind.

like

[Mr. Red Sleeper]

Trinidad has everything to become the number one country for motorsports in the Caribbean but that's only if the sheep stop following the blind.

Well said.

But unfortunately, the problem is bigger than that my neighbour.
This "problem" actually has nothing to do with motorsports or any other issue that may present itself.
Trinidadians by inception, have always been two things that has and will continue to lead to the demise of supposed "A great Nation".

They are FALSE PRIDE and GREED.

Mental issues arising from as far back as slavery and continued & encouraged by small minded interpretations of the balisier...




**User Banned from internet**

[wagonrunner]

One year boycott to be free of them so that motorsports can grow in Trinidad, is it that hard for to take a break for a better future? If you pay to race or go to the event then STFU and take your strokes! Cause you are part of the problem. Real Talk!

Trinidad has everything to become the number one country for motorsports in the Caribbean but that's only if the sheep stop following the blind.

Pie in the sky. Too many have to satisfy their own need of taking a tush either spectating or watching, than do the neccesary to show where they stand.

They happy with it, so those who taking a stand will suffer for it. As has been done in the past, and is continuing with same results. Selfishness > Unity here

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I think there is great misunderstanding and lack of information here.
Why don't you call TTASA and find out what they are doing?
Infact call TTRC, CARS, TTKA and ARA too!

you would be surprised at the amount of work that is done daily outside of having events. ALot of letters, meetings, lobbying etc etc with various Ministry heads in different ministries and state organisations.

DO NOT think that nothing is being done. I can say for a fact that ALOT is being done by ALL these associations - however the fact remains that without unity there will be no support form the Ministry of Sport.

The reasons are complex, however the simplest way I can explain the entire problem IMO is like this:
Unity depends on forming a General Council that has all the major motor sport clubs in T&T.

A General Council without the major players will not be supported by the Ministry of Sport.

The clubs who have not joined will only do so if the General Council is the NGB where they are equal to TTASA. They will not join if they must be below TTASA in the eyes of the Ministry. They don't mind however if TTASA retains the ASN status with FIA.

However TTASA will not yield since they are already the NGB. The NGB is the only body the Ministry will deal with (in theory).

These associations are busy 24/7, including TTASA and are doing ALOT to push their structure of motorsport - however it is not meshing at alot of levels and the Ministry will not support unless they do mesh.

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If your grouse is with TTASA alone, then join the association and move up through the ranks to effect change by way of vote. I believe the TTASA AGM / elections is in July 2012.

[SR]

bottom line TTASA does not want to play ball with anyone else and they want FULL control

so they can continue to do what they have been doing for the last 40 years to motorsport

[wagonrunner]

I think there is great misunderstanding and lack of information

Unity depends on forming a General Council that has all the major motor sport clubs in T&T.

A General Council without the major players will not be supported by the Ministry of Sport.

The clubs who have not joined will only do so if the General Council is the NGB where they are equal to TTASA. They will not join if they must be below TTASA in the eyes of the Ministry. They don't mind however if TTASA retains the ASN status with FIA.

However TTASA will not yield since they are already the NGB. The NGB is the only body the Ministry will deal with (in theory).

bottom line TTASA does not want to play ball with anyone else and they want FULL control

so they can continue to do what they have been doing for the last 40 years to motorsport

I don't comprehend what Duane think was misunderstood.

[Sinister_Audio]

could someone send me the link with the thread of the express article?

[Sinister_Audio]

[wagonrunner]

could someone send me the link with the thread of the express article?

what's on page 1 of this thread?

[UML]

cud barely hear....who flim it?

[sMASH]

as an outsider watching in, the group of ttasa should not be the NGB. that should be the general council, of which ttasa should be one member of.
the council would decide who is ASN, where ttasa would be and equitable contender.

the gov't has no dependency on autosport. therefore, they would care to make any decisions. the parties with interest in autosport need to decide what they want.

right now, there is infighting, as observed from the outside. there is already an ASN and a NGB, so gov't eh care.



the role of ttasa as NGB and ASN is not set in stone, so it is not impossible for the capacities to re-assigned. but they are decreed already, so it is very hard to have them changed.

there needs to be significant comparative support against ttasa as NGB. and the fight needs to be consistent, continuous, and unrelenting.

in other words, the opposition need to come together, clearly, and present their case, clearly and vociferously . even to the point of legal action to demonstrate that the ttasa as NGB is NOT the will of the people


in presenting a case, u need to have the structure of the general council, define its roles, its duties, responsibilities; show that it is capable of handling the role, and can handle it very well.
u need to show that u have support and overwhelming support.

when every thing is worked out well, then u need a great public showdown against ttasa, and back ttasa down. or show them up, as not doing all that they could do, all that they should do, or all that u can do.


getting ttasa out is possible, but it would require a comradery unheard of from the various racing fraternities, and a publicity exercise on the level of an electoral campaign.

[wagonrunner]

well, it's a reason why they they'd be there for life.
look at the comraderie expressed here .
Some really have no right to complain. If I was a TTASA member, I'd feel even more secure.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I think there is great misunderstanding and lack of information

Unity depends on forming a General Council that has all the major motor sport clubs in T&T.

A General Council without the major players will not be supported by the Ministry of Sport.

The clubs who have not joined will only do so if the General Council is the NGB where they are equal to TTASA. They will not join if they must be below TTASA in the eyes of the Ministry. They don't mind however if TTASA retains the ASN status with FIA.

However TTASA will not yield since they are already the NGB. The NGB is the only body the Ministry will deal with (in theory).

bottom line TTASA does not want to play ball with anyone else and they want FULL control

so they can continue to do what they have been doing for the last 40 years to motorsport

I don't comprehend what Duane think was misunderstood.

alot of people commented saying that nothing is being done and that a new organisation needs to be formed. I am saying that alot IS being done and forming a new organisation will achieve nothing at this point - it has been done already and squashed because agreements can never get past the stage they are at this time.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

as an outsider watching in, the group of ttasa should not be the NGB. that should be the general council, of which ttasa should be one member of.
the council would decide who is ASN,

it does not work like that. TTASA is the ASN and it would be fairly difficult to assign it to another group since the appointment comes from FIA, not a local council.

[wagonrunner]

it does not work like that. TTASA is the ASN and it would be fairly difficult to assign it to another group since the appointment comes from FIA, not a local council.

so you're saying that another recognized body, especially government backing cannot become an ASN?
So the FIA has more power than a country's government, in telling (any sovereign nation) who is (that soveriegn nation)'s "NATIONAL" Sporting Authority?

So FIA could pick "any random group" in any country and say "THEM. THEM is allyuh NSO!. We don't need to care what your government says?"

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

it does not work like that. TTASA is the ASN and it would be fairly difficult to assign it to another group since the appointment comes from FIA, not a local council.

so you're saying that another recognized body, especially government backing cannot become an ASN?
So the FIA has more power than a country's government, in telling (any sovereign nation) who is (that soveriegn nation)'s "NATIONAL" Sporting Authority?

So FIA could pick "any random group" in any country and say "THEM. THEM is allyuh NSO!. We don't need to care what your government says?"

The term NSO has been changed to NGB

there is a difference between the ASN and NGB

the ASN is the representative for FIA

The NGB is the national governing body for a Sport.
The T&T Football Federation is the NGB for football in T&T

TTASA is both the ASN and the NGB for motorsport in T&T

AFAIK, TTRC, TTKA, CARS and ARA do not mind if TTASA remains as the ASN to carry out FIA representation in T&T. However the TTRC, TTKA, CARS and ARA want the general council to be the NGB and TTASA should also sit on the council equally.

TTASA does not want this

I think that's the 3rd time I've said that in this topic

[ek4ever]

Duane ... you're missing the point. The proof is in the pudding as the saying goes. Saying that each association is doing plenty yet have nothing substantial to show for 'all this work' is a clear indication in my mind that the associations are basically ineffective, either working on their own or together.

In the 20+ years I've been following motorsports in this country we are probably at the worst level nationally and near the bottom regionally. Is this evidence of good work? No.

The idea of a National Motorsports General Council sounds like a great approach and there will be the relevant divisions such as drag racing, rally, circuit, motocross, etc. all reporting to this general council. This way planning is done at a level that includes all branches so that there is an inclusive approach in developing the sport (if this is currently done then again it is a failure). This will be of great benefit when pursuing the spin-off business opportunities I mentioned earlier.

[wagonrunner]

too many terms yes. and even more reading.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/statutes/Documents/Statuts-FIA-2012.pdf

ARTICLE 3 – Composition of the FIA
May be Members of the FIA:
Members entitled to vote:
1)   The National Automobile Clubs or National Automobile Associations (ACN). There can only be one per country. It's activity must embrace the entire national territory and cover road traffic, touring, the defence of the rightful interests of users and their safety on the one hand, and motor sport on the other. Moreover, the FIA must have granted it authority to exercise the Sporting Power. A Club only loses its ACN authority if, no longer fulfilling all of the above mentioned conditions, the General Assembly of the FIA so decides

Sounds almost like MOWT yes.

2) Clubs, Associations or Federations the activity of which embraces the entire national territory and covers road traffic, touring, or camping. Clubs, Associations or Federations, whose activities do not cover the entire national territory, may be admitted under this article, especially when that territory is very arge and when the FIA is not already represented therein by an ACN.
If in any one country there is already an FIA affiliated Club, Association or Federation within categories 1 and 2 above, another organisation belonging to category 2 can only be admitted after the Club already representing the country concerned has been consulted.

3) And, at the rate of only one per country, Clubs, Associations or Federations (ASN) the activity of which exclusively concerns motor sport and embraces the whole of the national territory, but only if, on proposal of the World Motor Sport Council, or at the request of the ACN and with the approval of the World Motor Sport Council, the General Assembly has decided to relieve the said ACN of its sporting obligations. Once they are admitted into the FIA, the Clubs, Associations and Federations within this category shall be entrusted with exercising Sporting Power.
The exercise of the Sporting Power shall be granted by the FIA to the ACN (paragraph 1) and the ASN (paragraph 3) categories, on condition that the holder exercises the said power in the interests of International Motor Sport and in accordance with the Statutes and Regulations of the FIA.
The exercise of the Sporting Power may be withdrawn:
* at the request of the Club holding the Sporting Power;
* by decision of the General Assembly;
* in pursuance of article 4 of the Statutes.
The ACN which, through a decision of the General Assembly, would no longer be authorised to exercise one of the normal activities of an ACN as specified above, shall no longer be entitled to take part in the discussions and votes on questions and matters which are no longer within its competence, but shall however be allowed to submit proposals relating to these questions and matters.
The same shall apply to the Clubs, Associations or Federations of categories 2 and 3 above, with regard to the activities which are not within their competence.

[S-Type]

So what u are saying is since the ASN formed the NGB and the NGB is the one that has a say in who the ASN is, the other groups are virtually locked out unless they join TTASA as affiliates or somehow make a case to FIA to change the NBG which they want to join?

is that right?

[Mr. Red Sleeper]

TTASA is in charge and cannot be moved/replaced because they are the only sanctioned body by the FIA that(supposed to) embraces all of the functions of the ASN & NGB.

And as long as no GROUP gets together and attack their position, with the backing of the govt & the people, it will remain that way..
[intended sarcasm]As Karl said, their jobs are pretty secure[/intended sarcasm]

I think that's the 3rd time I've said that in this topic

[Conrad]

So as a joint group of the non-members of the NGB can't come together and plead their case to the FIA?

Given facts and proof of TTASA's neglect to fulfill their duties not to mention misappropriation of funds, I would think is enough reason for FIA to step in and pull their NSA authorisation from TTASA.



Enough "what they should do is..." and "if I could get into TTASA I would..." and time for motorsport to grow. This is the digital age, if some idiot could garner support to get rid of some guy in the bush of Africa named Kony I don't see how it's impossible.