Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

[Conrad]

Anti Bribery and Corruption Policy

[sMASH]

this is how politics work(not talking bout elections, but between various persons and groups)

it would not be favorable or in good taste and intention to display gross short comings of ttasa to get them out of position. if push come to shove, it can be done in private, and let all sides save face.

this battle, if enough racers decide to come forth, must be won with majority. majority of the autosport enthusiasts must demand that the NGB status be removed from ttasa and lie with the general council.

getting the general public to desist from attending ttasa and affiliate events would reduce the funds that they get. this may make the member of ttasa+affiliates soften their grip on NGB status.
it may also get the autosport enthusiasts more courage to continue pressing the matter to ttasa to give up NGB, and min. of sport to re-assign NGB.

this is real politics, changing the status quo, with just mere people power; when there isn't any law, rule, formula, or even precedent.

[gt4tified]

Much ado about nothing is how I sum up this thread, with the exception of Duane who has painstakingly tried to provide the facts on the matter, some of what Karl said and Darren's last post.

Since the present Minister of Sport came into office I have been laising with him as to the government's position on the matter. Sufficed to say I am not surprised by his statement....actually I fully support it, as someone with an interest in motorsport, a citizen of T&T and a taxpayer.

Let me tell you what, as espoused to a select few, needs to be done:

Forget ASN, NGB, FIA and MGC (general council). All parties need to agree to come under one umbrella group for the purpose of shaping the strategic policy on Motorsport and for this purpose, the Ministry of Sport must take the lead.

My suggestion is this simple....with the consent of all parties, establish a Steering Committee on Motorsport, chaired by the Ministry of Sport. The Steering Committee will be the forum for communication by all parties, so that the Ministry will no longer be inundated with bi-lateral correspondence that only serves to establish a 'he say, she say' state of affairs.

The Steering Committee will have a specific set of Terms of Reference that all parties must in principle agree to, but which must be kept as simple as possible. The aim of the Steering Committee will be to generally discuss Motorsport policy and report through the Ministry of Sport, to Cabinet.

All parties on the existing General Council will be equal members on the Standing Committee, together with the NGB and the Ministry of Sport.

Before I go any further with this idea, I'd like to hear ppl's comments/questions/thoughts etc. Is it such a far-fetched idea that its not worth a shot?

[sMASH]

does the gov't deal with other groups, who are not part or do not support the NGB at this point it time?
if it does not, how would members of the steering committee be selected? same as members of the ttasa executive board?

[Mr. Red Sleeper]

Sounds good. But as long as the older/existing heads are there,who will also be forming a part of this "committee", it simply wont work. For the same reason its not working now. Opposition and disagreements will be the order of the day still , in an effort to get their personal gains and recognition.

Have to get rid of anyone who is of that mentality for it to work.
Them fellas eh changing their already developed and concreted patterns of behaviour.

[gt4tified]

That's just it Darren. Everyone says that about the 'older heads' as you term it, but that will continue only if all discussions continue behind closed doors/informally/word of mouth/unofficially. If, through the Steering Committee the discussions take place in a more public domain, with media involvement and decisions/reports going to Cabinet, maybe some of these 'heads' might be tempered.

Further, from what I've been reading, it seems that most of the persons who are, as Shazad put it, 'not willing to play ball' are part of only one organization. On the Standing Committee, each organization is represented by one or two persons at most, so there would be greater equality of voices among the Committee's membership, and not any one group domineering the discussions. Simply put, one organization, one vote on the Committee, with representation limited to two persons per organization.

[Tile Expression Ltd.]

Much ado about nothing is how I sum up this thread, with the exception of Duane who has painstakingly tried to provide the facts on the matter, some of what Karl said and Darren's last post.

Since the present Minister of Sport came into office I have been laising with him as to the government's position on the matter. Sufficed to say I am not surprised by his statement....actually I fully support it, as someone with an interest in motorsport, a citizen of T&T and a taxpayer.

Let me tell you what, as espoused to a select few, needs to be done:

Forget ASN, NGB, FIA and MGC (general council). All parties need to agree to come under one umbrella group for the purpose of shaping the strategic policy on Motorsport and for this purpose, the Ministry of Sport must take the lead.

My suggestion is this simple....with the consent of all parties, establish a Steering Committee on Motorsport, chaired by the Ministry of Sport. The Steering Committee will be the forum for communication by all parties, so that the Ministry will no longer be inundated with bi-lateral correspondence that only serves to establish a 'he say, she say' state of affairs.

The Steering Committee will have a specific set of Terms of Reference that all parties must in principle agree to, but which must be kept as simple as possible. The aim of the Steering Committee will be to generally discuss Motorsport policy and report through the Ministry of Sport, to Cabinet.

All parties on the existing General Council will be equal members on the Standing Committee, together with the NGB and the Ministry of Sport.

Before I go any further with this idea, I'd like to hear ppl's comments/questions/thoughts etc. Is it such a far-fetched idea that its not worth a shot?

well said sir!!!

[Conrad]

lol @ "motorsport" politics.

Reminds me of trade unions who want to play ball with the big boys but when action is actually taken they bawl "unfair!".


If TTASA is such an issue oust them by force by reporting their so called wrongdoings to the body that gave them authority in the first place.

A sanctioned organization shouldn't be allowed to operate as a few see it fit and hold the stakeholders they were placed in power to protect and serve at ransom.

[dread_2002]

the steering committee should comprise of representatives from all the different Motorsport committees as well as neutral people. They can decide on a common plan of action and objectives, future goals etc.

The different Motorsport organizations can then lead their own specialized teams (karting assoc, TtRC etc) in order to implement these objectives.
of course everything they do will be under supervision of the committee, but it will give them the necessary tools, guidance and budget requirements in order to implement the goals and objectives outlined.

maybe in this way it will give the different organizations more freedom so they wont clash heads as often.

[ek4ever]

The steering committee approach sounds good but the membership needs to be formulated to ensure that there is no opportunity for rail roading. That being said how would such a committee be constituted? How would one get involved in the whole process? I ask because I'm not a member of any of these associations but have a real desire to contribute meaningfully to the development the industry

[gt4tified]

dread_2002, that's asking for trouble IMHO. The purpose of the Committee as envisioned was never to be a bigstick, hall monitor or supervisor, but simply as an OFFICIAL channel where the various arms of Motorsport can collectively hold discussions and take decisions, facilitated by the Ministry of Sport. In so doing the Committee can be held accountable for it's actions, or lack thereof, instead of blaming each other unilaterally.

With respect to your org. chart, kudos to you btw for taking the time to do it, I see a more round-table type structure and removing that 'consultants' group....that too is asking for trouble.

[FugiTECH]

well allyuh fail so far , no ones doing nothing about it as usual just justting comments , wheres the Facebook or Trinituner ''Shares'' and Threads where you all convincing racers not to race say tomorrow, allyuh going and stand up by the gate in hundreds tomorrow will signs and stuff and TV6 saying dont contribute to TTASA event?

[wagonrunner]

well allyuh fail so far , no ones doing nothing about it as usual just justting comments , wheres the Facebook or Trinituner ''Shares'' and Threads where you all convincing racers not to race say tomorrow, allyuh going and stand up by the gate in hundreds tomorrow will signs and stuff and TV6 saying dont contribute to TTASA event?

I'm nowhere around there tomorrow. I've told some folks already. Will you be doing so?

You seem to not understand.

Getting rid of them as the body frustrating the Ministry and other sporting bodies from being able to benefit all automotive enthusiasts and getting rid of them completely is two very different things.

And actually they've been asked repeatedly to unite, by being an equal stakeholder in the body governing such endeavors. It's they who refuse to. That "equal" part is not attractive to their greed.

[X2]

Much ado about nothing is how I sum up this thread, with the exception of Duane who has painstakingly tried to provide the facts on the matter, some of what Karl said and Darren's last post.

Since the present Minister of Sport came into office I have been laising with him as to the government's position on the matter. Sufficed to say I am not surprised by his statement....actually I fully support it, as someone with an interest in motorsport, a citizen of T&T and a taxpayer.

Let me tell you what, as espoused to a select few, needs to be done:

Forget ASN, NGB, FIA and MGC (general council). All parties need to agree to come under one umbrella group for the purpose of shaping the strategic policy on Motorsport and for this purpose, the Ministry of Sport must take the lead.

My suggestion is this simple....with the consent of all parties, establish a Steering Committee on Motorsport, chaired by the Ministry of Sport. The Steering Committee will be the forum for communication by all parties, so that the Ministry will no longer be inundated with bi-lateral correspondence that only serves to establish a 'he say, she say' state of affairs.

The Steering Committee will have a specific set of Terms of Reference that all parties must in principle agree to, but which must be kept as simple as possible. The aim of the Steering Committee will be to generally discuss Motorsport policy and report through the Ministry of Sport, to Cabinet.

All parties on the existing General Council will be equal members on the Standing Committee, together with the NGB and the Ministry of Sport.

Before I go any further with this idea, I'd like to hear ppl's comments/questions/thoughts etc. Is it such a far-fetched idea that its not worth a shot?

well said sir!!!

This just shows that:

1) A politician will always be a politician
2) There is NO plan for motorsport... not by TTASA, not by the Government, not even the racers.

There is no plan because there is (and maybe never was) a 'real' open forum on motorsport as it is constantly TTASA versus 'the people'. If the NSO does not have the ear or the hearts of the people, it has failed to meet it's requirement in representing the people. The individual clubs will continue to chart progress at thier own pace is all we can count on. This is not surprising as the NSO is using it's time to produce and host events. This leads to another observation of above post...

3) The Ministry of Sport itself is likely to blame as well.

[sMASH]

not getting deep into the relationships, but ttasa does not have the ear and hearts of the people........... because they choose not to. this is why there is much fuss about not having them there. if they simply have a status of NGB and getting orn so, imagine what would happen if they actually get sole control of the biggest autosport complex in tnt?

[wagonrunner]

if they simply have a status of NGB and getting orn so, imagine what would happen if they actually get sole control of the biggest autosport complex in tnt?

That is the part the people who giving them money and encouragement seem unconcerned about.

[gt4tified]

This just shows that:

1) A politician will always be a politician
2) There is NO plan for motorsport... not by TTASA, not by the Government, not even the racers.

There is no plan because there is (and maybe never was) a 'real' open forum on motorsport as it is constantly TTASA versus 'the people'. If the NSO does not have the ear or the hearts of the people, it has failed to meet it's requirement in representing the people. The individual clubs will continue to chart progress at thier own pace is all we can count on. This is not surprising as the NSO is using it's time to produce and host events. This leads to another observation of above post...

3) The Ministry of Sport itself is likely to blame as well.

Thanks for your input X2. To reply to your comments, I'll take #3 first when I say that this is possibly another reason why the Minister/Ministry of Sport does not want to get involved at this time.

On your second point, I personally agree with you and from my experience which has been a little more than a decade or so ago (I'm neither afraid nor ashamed to say that I wasn't one of the many here who 'grew up in wallerfield') I cannot myself remember Motorsport ever starting with a plan.....not that this cannot be fixed, I'm sure you'll agree.

My question then is, what do you think needs to be done? I've put my cards on the table....I'm willing to hear what you have to offer.

Finally, on your first comment, that may be so, but the politician who currently has responsibility for Sport in T&T is no fool (despite what some may think).

[webb]

he talks too much as far as i am concerned,let him offer finance,build, operate,then we will see who really love racing.

yes but who is going to operate it? The ministry of sport?

I vote you and company Mr. admin

D you have my vote

[webb]

Trinidad motorsports in a Total Mess
I'll vote for Duane or Nemisis as Pres
who you say?

[JoeBama]

WTF.....aNgRY aNiL aNgRY aNiL aNgRY aNiL aNgRY aNiL aNgRY aNiL aNgRY aNiL

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Trinidad motorsports in a Total Mess
I'll vote for Duane or Nemisis as Pres
who you say?

in order to vote you need to join a club. If you are not a member you cannot vote or run for office.

Besides I am not suitable for that position. There are other people locally with better qualifications and experience than me for that job.

[ek4ever]

I think it's wrong that the Ministry of Sport takes the attitude it has. Obviously there is an identified difficulty in the motorsports associations coming together for a common good and looking at going forward as a united body. The Ministry could choose to be more pro-active and provide some facilitation to encourage and get buy in. Maybe if the Ministry were to put forward a concept for the development of a motorsports industry then the associations and other interested parties could see what the future could look like and therefore have something to work towards.

We can't just sit back and everyone throw their hands in the air. If the Ministry of Sport was forward thinking they would get together with other Ministries such as development, tourism, STTE, trade and industry, planning or hell, facilitate putting together a committee/working group or whatever to seriously look at capitalising on this opportunity.

It's just plain ridiculous that TT cannot make any progress in this area at all....not one bit.

[dread_2002]

Anil is all talk all the time..
he just used allya cant get along so blah blah blah to take the onus off the ministry and the government.

when gary hunt was the minister of sport. yall think he didnt try hard as possible to get a track.. and i sure he still have his honda race car sitting down. and he of all people would of try harder than anil cause racing was his sport of choice..

anil cant even get a pool built.. how long george bovel pool taking..it might never get built..and anil sport of choice was swimming..

so dont take chain up from anil... if allya want a track..
start looking at privatising this industry.

[X2]

Anil is all talk all the time..
he just used allya cant get along so blah blah blah to take the onus off the ministry and the government.

when gary hunt was the minister of sport. yall think he didnt try hard as possible to get a track.. and i sure he still have his honda race car sitting down. and he of all people would of try harder than anil cause racing was his sport of choice..

You would THINK so... but not quite.

As far as his old car... don't even think that is kept in TnT.

Thanks for your input X2. To reply to your comments, I'll take #3 first when I say that this is possibly another reason why the Minister/Ministry of Sport does not want to get involved at this time.

You're kidding right ? If you are a parent and see your children fighting, possibly about to seriously wound each other... this is the time to choose to 'hold yuh hand' ? Nope...

On your second point, I personally agree with you and from my experience which has been a little more than a decade or so ago (I'm neither afraid nor ashamed to say that I wasn't one of the many here who 'grew up in wallerfield') I cannot myself remember Motorsport ever starting with a plan.....not that this cannot be fixed, I'm sure you'll agree.

meh... pretty much... It's easy to tell when one has no plan.

My question then is, what do you think needs to be done? I've put my cards on the table....I'm willing to hear what you have to offer.

Identify the problem.
Formulate a solution.
Execute the plan.

You would figure a group of people who claim to know how to run an entire country... could easily come up with a plan... but you don't need to have the ability to govern to get elected.

Ask anyone... ANYONE at the NSO, at Min of Sport.... where they think motorsport will be in 5 years, 10 years and 20 years and you will likely get no type of informed or intelligent answer. I am not talking about some pie in the sky plan of a motorsport theme park or super motorsport complex that has a circuit track on the roof.

What needs to be done ? First thing is to identify a goal, then a plan with a timeline.

Finally, on your first comment, that may be so, but the politician who currently has responsibility for Sport in T&T is no fool (despite what some may think).

Oh really ? A flashy car and some fast talking spalk fool you up so easy ?


Let's forget the main sports...cricket, tennis, football, even swimming... and lets go to a sport that actually has a chance to grow again. Boxing... once a respected sport in TnT, has slowly fallen into oblivion. So what was done ? Well after the quickly forgotten bribery accusation under Mr. Hunt's watch....MoS proposed almost $2Mm to be paid to pro BS artist, Boxu Potts for a single 'professional' boxing event. And it's still under investigation I believe. ASSSSSK AAAAANIL !!!!

http://www.kaieteurnewsonline.com/2012/02/07/tt-sport-minister-two-other-ministry-officials-under-probe/

Trying to be a smart man doesn't mean a man is trying.... in any way, to be intelligent.


So there you have it... huff and puff and the answer is to set goals. SHort and long term. How to set the goals and what should they be ? A good start is to ask the racers, ask the REAL record holders... Garcia, Bissessar... ask the stalwarts... ask the clubs, ask the guys that are racing out there NOW... ask the youths !

When you want to know what the future holds... don't ask your grandpa... ask your children.

I go stop now... you only get so much for free...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Anil is all talk all the time..
he just used allya cant get along so blah blah blah to take the onus off the ministry and the government.

when gary hunt was the minister of sport. yall think he didnt try hard as possible to get a track.. and i sure he still have his honda race car sitting down. and he of all people would of try harder than anil cause racing was his sport of choice..

anil cant even get a pool built.. how long george bovel pool taking..it might never get built..and anil sport of choice was swimming..

so dont take chain up from anil... if allya want a track..
start looking at privatising this industry.

that doesn't make much sense

you said
Anil = swimming: no pool built
Gary = motorsport: no track built

seems like the same thing to me. So I don't see your logic.

Besides, everyone knows that Gary Hunt was a TTASA member and the then TTASA executive booted him out. He put them in court and he won.

TTASA, just like today, was the ASN and NSO of motorsport back when Gary was Minister of Sport too. So it may appear more logical if you said that Gary didn't want to help TTASA even more than Anil doesnt want to help them today. However that would just be your speculation now, wouldn't it.

What is a fact is that BOTH Ministers said that they will not put funds towards motorsport until all bodies come together and the infighting stops. That unity is yet to happen as major motorsport clubs and championships still refuse to join the general council - mainly because the general council (according to TTASA) is not the NSO / NGB; TTASA is, which means that those major clubs will end up sitting below TTASA when they join the general council - which is something they do not want.

[gt4tified]

Logically, can the Ministry not see why the non-afilliate Clubs would not want to get on board the General Council? It's like going by the same fishmonger who sold you rotten cro cro only now he wants you to buy his rotten sardine.

What would it take for the Ministry to remove/replace an NGB/NSO? Just a question in general....it can apply to any NGB/NSO.

[X2]

^^ I am sure there are people that can answer the question regarding replacement of the NSO's internal staff members but many people are calling for the complete disbanding and replacement of the NSO altogether... something which only the ministry can do and that is a question only the ministry can answer.

It's akin to wanting to replace the drivetrain/brakes/suspension of your car versus replacing the whole car. The mechanic will decide what parts can be replaced but only the owner can decide to replace the whole car.

[FugiTECH]

Logically, can the Ministry not see why the non-afilliate Clubs would not want to get on board the General Council? It's like going by the same fishmonger who sold you rotten cro cro only now he wants you to buy his rotten sardine.

What would it take for the Ministry to remove/replace an NGB/NSO? Just a question in general....it can apply to any NGB/NSO.

how can i say it , its like a few groups of hard working people getting a place to stay but in order to get it, the group of known bandits among have to give up their guns, stop doing evil and do good, but they dont want to give up this, why cant something be done to the evil group? Will the High Heads just let it happen but know whats taking place, why cant their be justice if the evil people are Proven GUILTY!!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ and put who as the NGB/NSO? MATT has TTRC, TTKA, CARS, ARA, TORMATT etc but they do not have TTASA. So it will always be disunity. So it's the same thing.

reinventing the wheel is not necessary.
I still feel the simplest solution is to let the TTASA formed general council become the NGB/NSO, that way everyone will join. However that is not something that TTASA wants.

The non-affiliates do not want to become an affiliate and join a general council that puts them below TTASA. Affiliates can vote on the general council, however they will not be able to vote on who will be the executive of the motorsport NGB/NSO, since the NGB/NSO remains TTASA and only TTASA members can vote in TTASA elections, obviously.

the standoff continues

[crazybalhead]

^ and put who as the NGB/NSO? MATT has TTRC, TTKA, CARS, ARA, TORMATT etc but they do not have TTASA. So it will always be disunity. So it's the same thing.

reinventing the wheel is not necessary.
I still feel the simplest solution is to let the TTASA formed general council become the NGB/NSO, that way everyone will join. However that is not something that TTASA wants.

The non-affiliates do not want to become an affiliate and join a general council that puts them below TTASA. Affiliates can vote on the general council, however they will not be able to vote on who will be the executive of the motorsport NGB/NSO, since the NGB/NSO remains TTASA and only TTASA members can vote in TTASA elections, obviously.

the standoff continues

BODEOW!!