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Habit7 wrote:Sorry, but I am not understanding if you are arguing from the standpoint of being an atheist who does not observe any proof for a god or an agnostic who does not observe any proof for the God. It seems at times you appear to be atheist and when challenged, you move to the position of agnostic and when challenged there, you move back to atheist. I ask again, is the proof you are looking for plausible? Please specify or itemise what this would be so that one won’t be like the individual looking from ceiling to floor for their spectacles that is perched right on their nose.
DNA contains a wealth of information which just like the code developed to run this forum, displays an intelligent mind behind its construction. In addition, we fail to see any genetic mechanisms to carry DNA from simple to complex (mutations does not add a gene, it changes existing ones). Chimpanzee and Human DNA was revised from being 98.5% to 95% identical http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... chimp.html . All that proves is a common designer (and 150,000,000 DNA base pairs that are different between them).
Science cannot say something is causeless. A cause is something it just has not yet observed. Science can do studies to eliminate possible causes which could involve indefinite studies to discover just one cause.Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:I know Christianity teaches Original Sin, what I am asking is what makes it right and others wrong such as Islam which believes that sins of the father do not fall on the son, or Hinduism which believes in Karma?Habit7 wrote:All world religions have one basic premise, work good works in accordance its moral code and you will attain rewards (most of which are after death).
Christianity of the Bible teaches that we cannot produce good works because they all come from a bad heart. You must receive the righteousness of God Himself, who came as both man and God, in order for you to be approved by God.
I think you are missing the forest for the trees. This doesn't necessarily have anything to do with original sin, it has to your own sin, my sin, every individual deeds, etc. AdamB is getting it, that is why he is big fonting my screen name. Christianity deals with the problem of your own individual sin.
For example: Adolf Hilter killed 6 million Jews and died without being brought to justice. In Islam, Allah could throw Hitler in Hell or forgive him, who knows?
There are clear criteria in Islam, of which you have no knowledge, Allah does not forgive disbelievers. Even if Hitler became a believer before his demise and Allah will forgive him, that does not mean that HE is unjust. Everyone will get their justice, everyone will be recompensed for their good and bad deeds, including those 6 million who were killed.
We are not competing with anyone else, only with our own selves...to be better than we were yesterday, to worship Allah more today than yesterday, to seek HIS mercy and forgiveness more each day.
Sincerity is intangible and dwells in the heart.
In Hinduism (which may or may not apply to Hitler) Karma cannot equal the amount of lives he took, he may be reincarnated as a lower lifeform which we may perceive has a more dreary life, but who is to know? A cockroach on Charlotte St. might be getting a better life that a lion in Emperor Valley Zoo. In Christianity, because God is eternally worthy, transgression of just one of God’s law is worthy of eternal punishment
Tell us more abou this. I suppose "accepting Jesus as your LORD" earns one the GET OUT OF HELL FREE CARD.
, far less the murder of 6 million ppl. But if one has repented of their sin and put their trust in Christ, that sin will be punished on Christ and Christ’s righteousness will be given to the believer. Then one can be adopt as a son into the Kingdom of God.
So if Hitler "trust in Christ", everything will be hunky doory? That's justice for you!!
DFC wrote:Today in Science.
Child born with HIV cured by US doctors
Medical history made with first 'functional cure' of unnamed two-year-old born with the virus but now needing no medication.
Doctors in the US have made medical history by effectively curing a child born with HIV, the first time such a case has been documented.
The infant, who is now two and a half, needs no medication for HIV, has a normal life expectancy and is highly unlikely to be infectious to others, doctors believe.
More here.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/mar/03/us-doctors-cure-child-born-hiv
Saw this on the news last night, I hope that the antiviral treatment doesn't have severe adverse effects on the child:
Dr Hannah Gay, who cared for the child at the University of Mississippi medical centre, told the Guardian the case amounted to the first "functional cure" of an HIV-infected child. A patient is functionally cured of HIV when standard tests are negative for the virus, but it is likely that a tiny amount remains in their body.
Today in Religion.
Cardinal Keith O’Brien admits inappropriate ‘sexual conduct’ following allegations.
In a statement issued by the Catholic church in Scotland, Cardinal Keith O’Brien has addressed allegations made against him by five priests within the church, and admitted that his “sexual conduct” has been “below the standards expected” of him.
Earlier this week, it emerged that a fifth claim of “inappropriate behaviour” towards a male priest had been made against Cardinal Keith O’Brien.
The 74-year-old, former head of the Catholic church in Scotland, who contested the first set of allegations last weekend, resigned as leader of the Scottish Catholic Church on Monday.
In the statement, released on Sunday, the Cardinal apologised, and asked for forgiveness, as well as admitting that, despite previously contesting the allegations, some were true.
It read: “In recent days certain allegations which have been made against me have become public. Initially, their anonymous and non-specific nature led me to contest them.
“However, I wish to take this opportunity to admit that there have been times that my sexual conduct has fallen below the standards expected of me as a priest, archbishop and cardinal.
“To those I have offended, I apologise and ask forgiveness… To the Catholic Church and people of Scotland, I also apologise.”
Read more here.
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/03/03/cardinal-keith-obrien-admits-inappropriate-sexual-conduct-following-allegations/
Habit7 wrote:AdamB I unfortunately have no major knowledge of the Arabic language. But I didn't see it as a prerequisite seeing that you have been posting English translations of your texts for us to read and understand. I agree that they, like all text of antiquity should be read in its historical context, the justice of God is not a historical view.
In addition, physical proof of any individual who of the past would not exist because of physical decay. We verify historical figures by documentation, and that documentation is further verified when spread across multiple sources. Furthermore, the distinctive of Jesus of the New Testament is His empty tomb. To demand physical evidence of His presence here on Earth who be a fool's errand.
AdamB wrote:No proof exists for your Jesus of the Bible, so what makes your Jesus correct and the one of the Quran wrong? A question Duane has been asking...
Habit7 wrote:AdamB you and I don't know what was Hitler's last actions in the moments leading up to his death. Let's say he became a Muslim. If he dies and comes before Allah, as your worldview dictates, and Allah forgives him because he is a believer, how is that any more unjust than if Hitler was captured and brought before a war crimes tribunal for the least, murder of 6 million Jews, and the tribunal forgives him because he facilitated one of the world's best highway systems and the world's most manufactured car. That would be unjust.
The book of Hebrews tells us that there is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood. This is exemplified in the Jewish tradition of sacrificing animals for the temporary covering of sin that had to be repeated over and over. But even with Abraham we see where God required him sacrificing his own son, Abraham was willing to obey. And right when Abraham was about to execute, God provided an animal. However, in the New Testament we see God sending His Son as that one time sacrifice not to cover sin or just say "I forgive you," but to absorb the punishment that those who would believe in Him deserves. He laid down His life and took it back up again three day later. So that if one repents of their sin and trusts in Christ, their sin can be punished on Christ and they can recieve the new life that Christ demonstrated being raised from the dead. This new life is not a get out of Hell free card, but must be exemplified by spiritual fruit and perseversing faith. So if one professes to be a Christian and does not have a consistent fruit-bearing lifestyle to back it up or fails to persevere in their faith to the end, then they are a false convert.
If Hitler had repented and trusted in Christ (Biblical terminology, not "accepting Jesus as your LORD" which I never used) Christ would have borne his punishment on the cross and he would have received the righteousness of Christ.
P.S. Original Sin puts us in a fallen state and puts us in a disposition to sin. We are not judge based on original sin but by one's own deeds.
Sacchetto Boutique wrote:life appears unjust to mankind but all is fair in the eyes of God. He is the master of everything. Not even a leaf can fall from a tree without his doing. Some people blindly say that they control their lives but that isnt true. If you believe in God, then you know that God controls everything. If Hitler is punished on earth, and also dies as a muslim, God will deal with him as he pleases. Strict laws are practiced in certain parts of teh world that might seem unfair to us but it prevents the amount of similiar crimes being committed in the same place. Ever thought about if the laws were stricter right here in Trinidad? Maybe we wouldnt have so many criminals? I duno..i can only assume certain things unless that which is stated in Quran or hadith and personally, I have taken the quran and hadith to be the truth. If you believe something else to be the truth, so be it. Its pointless fighting about which religion is right and which is wrong.
Try to see if you can get teh bible in its original text....maybe you will see things differently.
Sacchetto Boutique wrote:if a muslim woman is being treated unfairly, it is NOT islam. Islam gives women lots of rights. If they are treated unfairly its bc some idiot/s decided to change and alter islam to suite themselves. The same happens in ALL religions, not just islam but people love to attack islam for it.
I still say, if islam is so horrid, why do people still convert to islam? Shame on the muslims who claim to follow islam but are cheating and abusing and through that, causing the world to judge the religion. Please dont make teh actions of a few judge the whole religion. I love being muslim and God knows that I am genuinely trying my best to follow it properly.
My post is for those who believe in God. Those who do not believe, have made their choice.
MG Man wrote:I repeated A-levels at ASJA BOys COllege
They once gave every student a book of prayers (to this day I regret misplacing it)
Two prayers struck me as particularly interesting:
The first was entitled 'Prayer for buying a camel (or taking a wife)
The second, was a prayer for a married man to recite before going to sleep, basically asking god to protect him from any evil that may reside within his woman, while he slept thru the night. There was no equivalent prayer for the wife to protect herself
Daran wrote:Sacchetto Boutique wrote:if a muslim woman is being treated unfairly, it is NOT islam. Islam gives women lots of rights. If they are treated unfairly its bc some idiot/s decided to change and alter islam to suite themselves. The same happens in ALL religions, not just islam but people love to attack islam for it.
I still say, if islam is so horrid, why do people still convert to islam? Shame on the muslims who claim to follow islam but are cheating and abusing and through that, causing the world to judge the religion. Please dont make teh actions of a few judge the whole religion. I love being muslim and God knows that I am genuinely trying my best to follow it properly.
My post is for those who believe in God. Those who do not believe, have made their choice.
I guess people are right in saying the world is getting more stupid. yes but i'm trying my best not to judgeoh and before I start, let me 1st explain that I am NOT a mufti, maulana, alima or other learned person who has studied quran and hadith extensively, what I learnt is from listening to lectures from respected scholars in islam
Anyway, please explain these excerpts from the Qur'an then.
Qur'an (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" (see also verse 4:176). In Islam, sexism is mathematically established.
males MUST protect and care for females. I have two brothers. They are entitled to more than my share because whatever wealth they inherit from my dad, they must use toward caring for my mom (if she is a widow), me (if i wasnt married), their wives and their daughters(as long as they are not married). My inheritance is for ME only. If i chose to share that with my husband, it is MY choice according to islam so it is fair that the males inherit more..woman aint cheap to mind you know
Qur'an (2:282) - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women." Muslim apologists offer creative explanations to explain why Allah felt that a man's testimony in court should be valued twice as highly as a woman's, but studies consistently show that women are actually less likely to tell lies than men, meaning that they would make more reliable witnesses.my knowledge is very limited on this part. Perhaps someone more learned than myself can explain this
Qur'an (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them [women]"from what I know, this is taken to mean that they are held responsible for us. They must care for us and protect us. They are our guardians and must treat us fairly and with respect
Qur'an (5:6) - "And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it" Men are to rub dirt on their hands if there is no water to purify them following casual contact with a woman (such as shaking hands).It is forbidden for men and women who are not married to touch even hold or shake hands so as to not tarnish the reputation of the women. The public will always speak i'll of a woman more than they would a man
Qur'an (24:31) - Women are to lower their gaze around men, so they do not look them in the eye. (To be fair, men are told to do the same thing in the prior verse).Both men and women are not to stare (check out) the opposite sex. Its disgusting imo actually and makes alot of people feel uncomfy even today
Qur'an (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." A man has dominion over his wives' bodies as he does his land. This verse is overtly sexual. There is some dispute as to whether it is referring to the practice of anal intercourse, which it has been used historically to justify. If this is what Muhammad meant, however, then it would appear to contradict what he said in Muslim (8:3365). anal sex is prohibited. ONLY vaginal is allowed. Everything else resembles the way animals behave. It is 'sexual' to the interpreter. Married men may enjoy their wives as married women are to enjoy their husbands. Sex between husband and wife is good and encouraged. Infact, it is better for men and women who find themselves attracted to eachother, to get married asap so as to not engage in per-marital sex. Marriage will safeguard both of them and give the woman rights.
Qur'an (4:3) - (Wife-to-husband ratio) "Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four" Inequality by numbers.Four is the limit IF you can care for them equally ie provide house, land, clothing, food and for all the children involved. This is SUNNAH (the Prophet pbuh) had four however while he was married to his 1st wife Khadijah, he only had her, till she passed away. In those days, men would have sex with many women, never marry them, treat them badly so the limit of 4 was given especially since in the time of war, the men were dying in battle and there were limited ones to care for the women and provide for them
Qur'an (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." Angels are sublime beings, and would therefore be male.I duno about this one..hopefully someone more knowledgeable can assist in explaining.
Qur'an (4:24) and Qur'an (33:50) - A man is permitted to take women as sex slaves outside of marriage. Note that the verse distinguishes wives from captives (those whom they right hand possesses).
Habit7 wrote:So how will lightly beating my wife with a twig ensure her obedience?
Sacchetto Boutique wrote:Qur'an (5:6) - "And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it" Men are to rub dirt on their hands if there is no water to purify them following casual contact with a woman (such as shaking hands).It is forbidden for men and women who are not married to touch even hold or shake hands so as to not tarnish the reputation of the women. The public will always speak i'll of a woman more than they would a man
Sacchetto Boutique wrote:MgMan, those duas have explainations for them so get ur info from a trusted scholar. I understand them but I dont think I will able to explain properly.
Sacchetto Boutique wrote:hmm...asja...is questionable imo...
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