The Religion Discussion

[megadoc1]

Sacchetto Boutique so if I post a rebuttal from another website who would be more right?and where do we go from here?

[Sacchetto Boutique]

^ hey post it...its a discussion...everyone has views..

[megadoc1]

^ hey post it...its a discussion...everyone has views..

you missed the point ! we would be going back and forth whole day
but let me ask you this first line in your post do you believe it?

Whereas, The Bible is a collection of writings by many different authors, the Quran is a dictation (or recitation). The speaker in the Quran - in the first person - is God Almighty (Allah) talking directly to man.

do you not know that your beloved quran is a collection of recitations from persons who heard it from muhamed ? and this was collected from many of them and compiled many years after muhamed died? it is not like it was heard by muhamed and recorded right away! so why attempt to lead people into thinking so? what garantee do you have that these people actually knew muhamed?

[Sacchetto Boutique]

Yes i know. afaik, when the Prophet (saws) received a revelation, he would recite it in the presence of his companions and he would make them write it down under his supervision bc he could NOT read or himself so they would read it back to him and he'd correct them if there were errors.
Afaik, memorising information was very much in practise in those days. "Writing" was not very common. It was easy for the companions to memorise the recitations bc those are what are used in the 5 daily salaah and bc they were revealed over the course of 23yrs, that too made it easy to memorise parts of the recitation.
Each Ramadan, the Prophet (saws) would repeat after teh angel Gabriel reciting the entire Qur’an in its exact order as far as it had been revealed, while in the presence of a number of his Companions.
In his last year, the Prophet(saws) recited the whole, completed Qur'an twice while in teh presence of his Companions, reinforcin n double checking their memorisations.

[DFC]

i respect your views DFC, perhaps YOU might be right...I suppose when we all die, its only then we would really know for sure. Till then, I will continue trying to be a good muslim and learn more and follow more. This is the way of life I have chosen and I have explained why I chose it yet still many people insult me for my choice. I have not forced islam on anyone nor have I tried to kill or oppress anyone who does not follow it. Just because someone practises islam, doesnt mean you HAVE to hate them or dislike them..they not troubling you

You have not forced islam on anyone- then you are not a true muslim.
You have not tried to kill or oppress non-believers- then you are not a true muslim.

You are not a true muslim, and even worse you are a woman.
No heaven for you, sorry.


Didn't mohammed say Hell is full of women?

Your place in the fires boooked!

You deserve it though, for making the wrong choice.

[Sacchetto Boutique]

Oh grand mufti ....u seem to be a scholar in islam...carry on...if your vast knowledge is correct, perhaps i shall see u in hell.

Any info u have about islam, i would totally ignore bc id rather take knowledge from one who knows than from one who claims to know. Do u visit ur mechanic when u have a medical issue? i think not. Again i will say it...do NOT read lines of chapters and interpret what U clearly do NOT understand. Islam insists on the respect of women but if u wana hold on to some other school of thought or misguided claims that its all horrid, that is your choice. I follow sunnah according to teh Hanafi Madhab so bring forth info from that field.
Salafis tend to interpret things very differently so i duno if ur getting ur info from that school of thought.

[DFC]

Oh grand mufti ....u seem to be a scholar in islam...carry on...if your vast knowledge is correct, perhaps i shall see u in hell

for sure , look out for me, i'll be the guy with the Moet and Kush, liming with Jesus and Mohammed.

[Sacchetto Boutique]

such blasphemy in ur posts....smh.

[DFC]

such blasphemy in ur posts....smh.

So tell me Sachetto, real talk here, how would you feel as a woman, when your husband brings home a second wife?

[AdamB]

I wonder how Crossdrilled is progressing with his experiment to invent a new religion. If an "illiterate cave dweller 1400 yrs ago" could do it, then certainly (they postulate) that anyone on this forum can do it. Possibly, he is still working out the details of the laws to which mankind has to abide. Well maybe not, he has to attract his followers and convince them first.

I forgot to mention that Crossdrilled's education / intelligence may be 2-3 times superior to some who post here. Imagine how much more than Muhammad's that is!!

[megadoc1]

Yes i know. afaik, when the Prophet (saws) received a revelation, he would recite it in the presence of his companions and he would make them write it down under his supervision bc he could NOT read or himself so they would read it back to him and he'd correct them if there were errors.
Afaik, memorising information was very much in practise in those days. "Writing" was not very common. It was easy for the companions to memorise the recitations bc those are what are used in the 5 daily salaah and bc they were revealed over the course of 23yrs, that too made it easy to memorise parts of the recitation.
Each Ramadan, the Prophet (saws) would repeat after teh angel Gabriel reciting the entire Qur’an in its exact order as far as it had been revealed, while in the presence of a number of his Companions.
In his last year, the Prophet(saws) recited the whole, completed Qur'an twice while in teh presence of his Companions, reinforcin n double checking their memorisations.

fine ! have you looked into how the bible came about? how it was written and how those guys received revelations? do you have an understanding of anything else outside the quran?

[Sacchetto Boutique]

such blasphemy in ur posts....smh.

So tell me Sachetto, real talk here, how would you feel as a woman, when your husband brings home a second wife?

In an effort to educate you, I will answer your question. You said "when" you know something I dont know? perhaps you know my husband persoanlly so you KNOW as a fact that he WILL bring home a 2nd wife.

There is NO law which damands in islam that a man MUST have 1, 2 3 or even 4 wives. This is NOT FARD (compulsory). The limit is 4 and this came about in the time when so many men were being lost to battle in those days that there were hardly enough men to care for and provide for all the women. This limit was brought about because many non-religious men in those days, would have intimate relations with women and not marry them giving them no rights. It is allowed to have as many four inorder to provide for them.
If my husband wants a 2nd wife...we (HIM & I) will sort that issue out if it arises. That decision has NOTHING to do with u or any other person.
Men have major responsibilities in islam which sadly, not many take seriously.

[Sacchetto Boutique]

@ megadoc1 i refer you back to the same text i pasted to the various errors indentified. Although the Bible may have started out correctly..ok no the BIBLE DID start out correctly but was changed over time as i have indentified in the info above...u see, the comparison was made of both the Quran and bible in my post and since teh quran came out after to correct those errors, isnt it logical to accept the quran?

[AdamB]

SB, doh take on DFC, he in need of some meat KFC to be specific. Lack of it affecting his thought processes.

He gets his "info" from a website created by hindus to try to fool ignorant muslims and themselves. Ah buss the mark on him looooonnnnngggg time now! The site is associated by Agniveer....just ask him for his sources. This last question every follower of a religion should ask himself/herself. The validity of the source, authenticity, preservation, etc.

Imagine an illiterate cave-dweller authored a book that has been preserved in its original language with no other "version", no King James, no JW, no SDA, no Catholic, no protestant, no LDS, etc.

[TonyM]

thats exactly how it should be because Jannah is NOT for everyone. It is only for those who deserve it by worshiping God in the way HE has commanded.

so God in his infinite wisdom made over billions of souls and less than 1/10th of them will make it to his paradise? He's not very good at this commanding thing is he?

right now less than 1 billion out of the 7 billion people on earth are Muslim and maybe half of them are pious enough to reach Jannah. Or all the Suffi, Shiite etc who also not making it to Jannah (according to you) Lets not talk about the billions more people who have lived before now who were not Muslim.

That's God's plan working perfectly right?

You rating up AdamB when he said the Quran is relevant now, but you say the rule of many wives was for the time long ago when many men were lost in battle and female population exceeded male. So you think it's relevant now for a man to have many wives now in a non-warring society?

I wonder if you read what you type sometimes.

[TonyM]

Imagine an illiterate cave-dweller authored a book that has been preserved in its original language with no other "version", no King James, no JW, no SDA, no Catholic, no protestant, no LDS, etc.

ever considered that at the time many people were illiterate and would believe anything told to them especially when you claim it was the word of God? That is why Christianity took root as well. And every other religion.

You can't get away with that today since most of the world is educated. Which is why new religions cannot take root today.

The prophet convinced the not too bright companions that their wives could remarry when they die, but the prophet wives could not remarry when he dies. LOL
You try convincing people of that now nah.

The prophet was really smarter than the people around him. And it seems he smarter than the people who follow him today too!

[Sacchetto Boutique]

thats exactly how it should be because Jannah is NOT for everyone. It is only for those who deserve it by worshiping God in the way HE has commanded.

so God in his infinite wisdom made over billions of souls and less than 1/10th of them will make it to his paradise? He's not very good at this commanding thing is he?

right now less than 1 billion out of the 7 billion people on earth are Muslim and maybe half of them are pious enough to reach Jannah. Or all the Suffi, Shiite etc who also not making it to Jannah (according to you) Lets not talk about the billions more people who have lived before now who were not Muslim.

That's God's plan working perfectly right?

You rating up AdamB when he said the Quran is relevant now, but you say the rule of many wives was for the time long ago when many men were lost in battle and female population exceeded male. So you think it's relevant now for a man to have many wives now in a non-warring society?

I wonder if you read what you type sometimes.

what!?! ok understanding english isnt your strong point is it?
I said having "four wives came about in a time..." I never said its ONLY relevant to THAT time. It is STILL practised TODAY. A MAN IS ALLOWED 4 WIVES. Hope teh caps help u understand better.

And yes, God is infinite and He knows what he is doing..we are created with freewill, to follow whatever we choose to follow. From Adam (AS) - Mohammad(SAWS) they were ALL muslims in the sense that they ALL believed and preached the ONENESS of God. Every single Prophet preached the SAME.

If you are sitting an exam, are the questions usually easy so that everyone can pass? NO, only a choice few who have studied the material will pass/ become certified etc. We are created to worship the Creator by his commands...nothing else. If we do that, we will enter paradise.

[DFC]

SB, doh take on DFC, he in need of some meat KFC to be specific. Lack of it affecting his thought processes.

He gets his "info" from a website created by hindus to try to fool ignorant muslims and themselves. Ah buss the mark on him looooonnnnngggg time now! The site is associated by Agniveer....just ask him for his sources. This last question every follower of a religion should ask himself/herself. The validity of the source, authenticity, preservation, etc.

Imagine an illiterate cave-dweller authored a book that has been preserved in its original language with no other "version", no King James, no JW, no SDA, no Catholic, no protestant, no LDS, etc.

Adamb you're a coward. When posed with questions, instead of answering them, you dismiss the source as invalid,and you use that as your "duck out" because you CANNOT answer.

But the questions remains.........

Its pussytactics.
Oh wow, what an intellectual you are.

I could never take you seriously.

You book is not perfect. It is not the oldest, it is not authentic and it is not the only one out there.
Only a fool would believe as such.


I would never put my faith on any old , dusty religions. They are out-dated and irrelevant.

Gods are dying, gone are greek gods, roman gods, egyptian gods, mayan gods, pagan gods. Your god time is running out.

[megadoc1]

@ megadoc1 i refer you back to the same text i pasted to the various errors indentified. Although the Bible may have started out correctly..ok no the BIBLE DID start out correctly but was changed over time as i have indentified in the info above...u see, the comparison was made of both the Quran and bible in my post and since teh quran came out after to correct those errors, isnt it logical to accept the quran?

what? no where in your post tells us when ,where or by whom the bible was changed. this is just a remark made with no supporting evidence, also nowhere in the quran suggests itself as a correction to the bible! in fact even muhamed was advised to reference the bible! so lease tell me when the bible was changed and by who and when?
yuh see the problem you have is that you look at the bible as one book just like the quran but it is not, rather it is a collection of books that were written by various authors over a period of sixteen hundred years, then it was collated as one (bible) just before the advent of islam so its kind of silly to assert that the bible was changed what would be proper is if you say some books in the bible was changed and it would serve us well if you can tell us which one! unless of course you want to say all were but that requires alot more evidence from you

[TonyM]

thats exactly how it should be because Jannah is NOT for everyone. It is only for those who deserve it by worshiping God in the way HE has commanded.

so God in his infinite wisdom made over billions of souls and less than 1/10th of them will make it to his paradise? He's not very good at this commanding thing is he?

right now less than 1 billion out of the 7 billion people on earth are Muslim and maybe half of them are pious enough to reach Jannah. Or all the Suffi, Shiite etc who also not making it to Jannah (according to you) Lets not talk about the billions more people who have lived before now who were not Muslim.

That's God's plan working perfectly right?

You rating up AdamB when he said the Quran is relevant now, but you say the rule of many wives was for the time long ago when many men were lost in battle and female population exceeded male. So you think it's relevant now for a man to have many wives now in a non-warring society?

I wonder if you read what you type sometimes.

what!?! ok understanding english isnt your strong point is it?
I said having "four wives came about in a time..." I never said its ONLY relevant to THAT time. It is STILL practised TODAY. A MAN IS ALLOWED 4 WIVES. Hope teh caps help u understand better.

And yes, God is infinite and He knows what he is doing..we are created with freewill, to follow whatever we choose to follow. From Adam (AS) - Mohammad(SAWS) they were ALL muslims in the sense that they ALL believed and preached the ONENESS of God. Every single Prophet preached the SAME.

If you are sitting an exam, are the questions usually easy so that everyone can pass? NO, only a choice few who have studied the material will pass/ become certified etc. We are created to worship the Creator by his commands...nothing else. If we do that, we will enter paradise.

yes but you can write over an exam if you fail the first time

you really have some tension issues. it's making you not think straight. Or maybe that is how you are all the time.

Is it a Muslim thing to be wound up and irate all the time?

[Sacchetto Boutique]

nah but i think ur my biggest fan.

[Sacchetto Boutique]

@ megadoc1 i refer you back to the same text i pasted to the various errors indentified. Although the Bible may have started out correctly..ok no the BIBLE DID start out correctly but was changed over time as i have indentified in the info above...u see, the comparison was made of both the Quran and bible in my post and since teh quran came out after to correct those errors, isnt it logical to accept the quran?

what? no where in your post tells us when ,where or by whom the bible was changed. this is just a remark made with no supporting evidence, also nowhere in the quran suggests itself as a correction to the bible! in fact even muhamed was advised to reference the bible! so lease tell me when the bible was changed and by who and when?
yuh see the problem you have is that you look at the bible as one book just like the quran but it is not, rather it is a collection of books that were written by various authors over a period of sixteen hundred years, then it was collated as one (bible) just before the advent of islam so its kind of silly to assert that the bible was changed what would be proper is if you say some books in the bible was changed and it would serve us well if you can tell us which one! unless of course you want to say all were but that requires alot more evidence from you

i dont know who changed parts of it but how is it that there are so many versions of the bible?

[metalgear2095]

oh im sorry...did I insult YOU or anyone? please direct me to where I did that and I will humbly apologize bc insulting anyone isnt my intention.

If I do not believe in Islam but another religion or maybe in no religion at all isn't it insulting for you to claim your belief to be the truth? You have more or less implied my beliefs are untruths.

Everyone would believe their respective religion to be truth.

[mamoo_pagal]

This is the best thread in this whole forum...and the more I read, the more I see, that even when Adamb shows you the truth, many will still question and turn away and thats exactly how it should be because Jannah is NOT for everyone. It is only for those who deserve it by worshiping God in the way HE has commanded.
Btw, referring to any piece of text in a religious book that is different from the Quran is pointless to a true believer bc as I have mentioned before, there are MANY errors within the Bible and Torah and a muslim will only take what has remained the same in the Quran. Have you ever noticed that in the Quran, it is written in the 1st person but the bible is a written account from several other persons...that is why there is that verse which says bring forth another book that can match the quran....it cant be done...

I dare you to go back and read from his very first post and then tell us if it is the truth he speaks and you agree to his approach......till this day no one in this thread who claimed the bible has errors (as information being changed) can account for this. What are the errors?

[mamoo_pagal]

i respect your views DFC, perhaps YOU might be right...I suppose when we all die, its only then we would really know for sure. Till then, I will continue trying to be a good muslim and learn more and follow more. This is the way of life I have chosen and I have explained why I chose it yet still many people insult me for my choice. I have not forced islam on anyone nor have I tried to kill or oppress anyone who does not follow it. Just because someone practises islam, doesnt mean you HAVE to hate them or dislike them..they not troubling you

absolutely wrong, go back to previous posts by thermaltake and AdamB and see for yourself the manner in which they convey the message you so believe and love

[mamoo_pagal]

@ megadoc1 i refer you back to the same text i pasted to the various errors indentified. Although the Bible may have started out correctly..ok no the BIBLE DID start out correctly but was changed over time as i have indentified in the info above...u see, the comparison was made of both the Quran and bible in my post and since teh quran came out after to correct those errors, isnt it logical to accept the quran?

what? no where in your post tells us when ,where or by whom the bible was changed. this is just a remark made with no supporting evidence, also nowhere in the quran suggests itself as a correction to the bible! in fact even muhamed was advised to reference the bible! so lease tell me when the bible was changed and by who and when?
yuh see the problem you have is that you look at the bible as one book just like the quran but it is not, rather it is a collection of books that were written by various authors over a period of sixteen hundred years, then it was collated as one (bible) just before the advent of islam so its kind of silly to assert that the bible was changed what would be proper is if you say some books in the bible was changed and it would serve us well if you can tell us which one! unless of course you want to say all were but that requires alot more evidence from you

i dont know who changed parts of it but how is it that there are so many versions of the bible?

how are there so many different schools of thought in Islam? all claiming to be right

[Sacchetto Boutique]

mamoo, even if 1, 2 or lets say 10 muslims do something incorrect according to islam, why would u judge ALL muslims based on that. I tired type the same thing over n over. I posted a link with the evidence that the bible has errors, go back just one page and read.
The schools of thought in islam are different due to interpretation. That is why all muslims are advised to pick a school of thought and FOLLOW completely. I chose sunnah according to Imam Abu Hanifa because I believe that his teachings are the most sound and logical. We look to the imams of the old days to help us incorporate the knowledge in the Quran to todays world. Back when the quran was revealed, we didnt have issues like we have today however, the same principles/ teachings/ reasoning can be app;lied today to solve various issues.

[mamoo_pagal]

mamoo, even if 1, 2 or lets say 10 muslims do something incorrect according to islam, why would u judge ALL muslims based on that. I tired type the same thing over n over. I posted a link with the evidence that the bible has errors, go back just one page and read.
The schools of thought in islam are different due to interpretation. That is why all muslims are advised to pick a school of thought and FOLLOW completely. I chose sunnah according to Imam Abu Hanifa because I believe that his teachings are the most sound and logical. We look to the imams of the old days to help us incorporate the knowledge in the Quran to todays world. Back when the quran was revealed, we didnt have issues like we have today however, the same principles/ teachings/ reasoning can be app;lied today to solve various issues.

Judge all Muslims? Please get the propaganda of "muslim hate" out of your head I pointed you to two persons in particular, one of whom you say is capable of speaking the truth, if you agree with him and his approach then you fall in that category. I don't see them as the voice of the Islamic community as I know better. Anyone can get "evidence" against any school of thought..........to you it is evidence to others it is definitely not, evidence requires alot more than what you posted for most people. I asked for clarification on a particular error that muslims harp on, I believe Megadoc asked the same. Where can I find the information that has changed in the bible? Especially post change..........what are the actual words?

You CHOOSE Imam Abu Hanifa, YOU believe that, but I am sure there is a significant portion of the Islam community who may not, which one is right?? The mere fact there can be different interpretations and ways to follow one book brings forth the question of correct interpretation not so? It is not much different from the different sects of Christianity.
Go to any religious book and there is relevant information that can be used in solving various issues that we face today......

[Sacchetto Boutique]

Judge all Muslims? Please get the propaganda of "muslim hate" out of your head I pointed you to two persons in particular, one of whom you say is capable of speaking the truth, if you agree with him and his approach then you fall in that category. I don't see them as the voice of the Islamic community as I know better. Anyone can get "evidence" against any school of thought..........to you it is evidence to others it is definitely not, evidence requires alot more than what you posted for most people. I asked for clarification on a particular error that muslims harp on, I believe Megadoc asked the same. Where can I find the information that has changed in the bible? Especially post change..........what are the actual words?

http://islamtomorrow.com/articles/Bible_vs_Quran.asp

That is a respected website for the comparison of Quran n Bible. I only know what adamb posted from when I started reading the thread. I duno the other poster bc i didnt read this thread from page1..i think i started posting somewhere within the 400+pages..anyway...take a read at the text that was discussed on the site.

[MG Man]

lolz @ respected website