The Religion Discussion

[devsingh]

I'd love the day Christ walked the earth again, I'm sure unless he was white with golden hair and carried the same name, the church and all its followers will be the ones to cause him grief.

will you be able to recognize him ?

[djaggs]

Then if so, is god in hell too ?

Hell is not some underground cave with demons with pitchforks poking you to annoyance. Hell is the expression of God's holy wrath against the disobedient angels and men for sinning against Him. Hell is not just for those who don't believe in God, the demons believe in God and the tremble (a 1up on most of us). Hell was created as place of eternal torment for rebellious angels and now for us because of our sin. So yes God's presence is experienced in Hell.

Revelation 14:10-11a, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night

why be so violent and full of wrath against people who don't want to listen to your way?

Why not ?? All He has been giving the world is love, but His eternal love is being rejected. Understand this. We all given the freedom of choice. He is restoring all things to the way it is supposed to be.

He said:

Revelations 8:
11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still." 12 "And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

We all have the freedom of choice. This is how God's plan of redemption works. Adam's original sin, to choose evil instead of good has lost its power over those who believe. Believers now have the power to make the right choices where Adam failed. Sin no longer reigns over those that believe.

Those who choose to disobey God, will face the consequences of that choice. God has given them mercy but now is the time for judgement and the world is about to be judged. THIS IS NO JOKE ! God is going to judge the nations of the earth. In YOUR lifetime !!!

That Tornado that hit Oklahoma recently, a bible was found stuck to the windscreen of a car, and its paged was opened to the following Psalm:



This what the Psalm said:

Psalm 1:

1 Blessed is the man
Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
Nor stands in the path of sinners,
Nor sits in the seat of the scornful;
2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
3 He shall be like a tree
Planted by the rivers of water,
That brings forth its fruit in its season,
Whose leaf also shall not wither;
And whatever he does shall prosper.

4 The ungodly are not so,
But are like the chaff which the wind drives away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment,
Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

6 For the Lord knows the way of the righteous,
But the way of the ungodly shall perish

Psalm 2
Why do the nations rage,
And the people plot a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”

4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 “Yet I have set My King
On My holy hill of Zion.”

7 “I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall break[a] them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’”

10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,[b] lest [c] He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.

Like the Gospels, this also is no lie.

[djaggs]

^ the same one you claim he set for us.

or is it "do as I say and not as I do"?

perhaps God's terrible wrath is actually tough love? That makes some feel better?
I know it makes alot of battered women and children feel better believing that they are being abused because their abusive other or parent is just giving tough love. "He beats me cause he loves me". It's the only way they can comfort themselves I guess. (this paragraph was rhetorical so sorry for the monologue)

on another note, given all the death and destruction by the tornadoes in the US. What's the justification for the dead children?

Children who die automatically go to be with the Lord. They have not reached the age of reason to know right from wrong. You see death as a bad thing, but for the Christian, death is our victory. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

[rocknrolla]

you all can get so close and miss the point, and do that over and over again... it is very difficult to watch. like seeing a blind monkey getting close to the banana u threw for it and then turning in another direction palming the floor for the banana in blindness.. over and over again.

Not a scratch.

But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he MEDITATES day and night.

[djaggs]

you all can get so close and miss the point, and do that over and over again... it is very difficult to watch. like seeing a blind monkey getting close to the banana u threw for it and then turning in another direction palming the floor for the banana in blindness.. over and over again.

Not a scratch.

But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he MEDITATES day and night.

I know eh.....thank God for his grace...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I think you are trying to allude that there is some moral standard that God is subject to and He is violating it. Am I wrong in that assessment?

so God doesn't need to follow any moral standard? Including the one he set for u

Is that also similar to him being supernatural so none of the laws of the universe apply to him?

It's like a politician that's above the law.
It's impossible to argue against that. Not necessarily for the right reason though.

But then that brings me back to my original question of what makes your beliefs right about God but another religion wrong? And please don't say you answered that already cause you didn't.

[MG Man]

Djaggs I love how you praise your religion for all its contributions, but quietly ignore all the scientific progress as a result of Islamic scholars in past ages. Not to mention their contribution to navigation. And what of Hindu scholars? Nothing of value from them? Please be reminded that your bible borrows heavily from previous civilizations for much of its content. In which case, the Sumerians are owed a great debt of hratitude from you

[djaggs]

Djaggs I love how you praise your religion for all its contributions, but quietly ignore all the scientific progress as a result of Islamic scholars in past ages. Not to mention their contribution to navigation. And what of Hindu scholars? Nothing of value from them? Please be reminded that your bible borrows heavily from previous civilizations for much of its content. In which case, the Sumerians are owed a great debt of hratitude from you

Well the discussion was about Christianity and I was referencing the Western world as opposed to the eastern world since we live in the western world. I am fully well aware of the great historical achievements from the east, like India and China and am quite proud of my ancestral heritage. But our discussion was concerning where we live in the western world cause I cannot speak for the east.

In any case, take a look at all the Nobel Prizes that have been awarded and see how many have been given to scientists from the western world as well as Jewish scientists. More Jews have been given Noble prizes than any other ethnic group in the world and they make up the smallest percentage of the world's population.

The western world has far outstripped the east in science and technology since the rennaiseance in Europe. Before Christianity, Europe was backward and barbaric.

Look at all the major scientific breakthroughs and discoveries of the last 500 years, how many have come from the east ?

[New_SPECIES]

Extraterrestrial life has 99.999999999999% change of existing, compared a make believe fable such as God. You think earth is so special that Abiogenesis only ever occurred here? Need I remind you of the vastness of our universe?

Do you know that if the earth moves as much as 1 mm closer to the sun, everything on the earth will burn to ashes, also moving 1 mm away from the sun will cause the earth to become an ice cube.... and that is according to the scientists that you “worship”.

Then how is it that there is a 99.999999% of life somewhere in the universe.
It means that if a planet exists somewhere in the universe with life just as planet earth, that planet will have to be almost the exact distance away from its sun just as ours.
And that’s if the sun in that universe has the exact size and mass as our sun.
And that’s if the sun of that universe is producing the same intensity if heat.

But according to your assumption (sorry, your approx calculations), there is a 99.999999% chance ...............and therefore that is enough grounds to place your firm belief in. But then you question and doubt any and every explanation about god.

^^^You are yet to account for you firm belief in the arguments for aliens yet displaying unreasoned scepticism for the arguments for God.

Well Habit7, I guess that’s the man’s reason behind his firm belief of aliens... He finally got the calculations right!

New_SPECIES, Lol@ burying myself deeper and deeper? Your position is simply. "Omg omg how can you not believe in God, omg"......I can't expect you to argue with logic and reasoning since there's none proving religion or God in anyway.

Never did I give the impression "Omg omg how can you not believe in God, omg"...

That’s probably what your brain interpreted from the arguments brought forward.

For you to respond to me with a quote like that is embarrassing...

I proceeded to provide time line history of real successive events and gave definitions and meanings for terms that you continuously and clearly cannot understand. I also provided a logical explanation for the progressive release of information from god and why it took that progression.

Every time you hit me with one of your senseless reasoning, I simply show you how senseless what you are saying really is.
Your answers to my questions and your reasoning behind it, sounds like something from a child under the age of 12.

That is why this guy said:

you all can get so close and miss the point, and do that over and over again... it is very difficult to watch. like seeing a blind monkey getting close to the banana u threw for it and then turning in another direction palming the floor for the banana in blindness.. over and over again.

Not a scratch.

Let me ask you something, if your explanation and reasoning is so clear cut and without a doubt, then how is it that the people who follow your belief you are so small in number. In other words, how are you in a minority group?

Is it because you are superior in ‘Logical’ thinking as compared to the world...

Oh yeah, I forgot, you using Gandhi’s quote out of context...

By the way.... what does OMG mean to an organism like you?


Habit7 / djaggs .........kudos, may you be rewarded for your efforts!

[Habit7]

I think you are trying to allude that there is some moral standard that God is subject to and He is violating it. Am I wrong in that assessment?

so God doesn't need to follow any moral standard? Including the one he set for u

Is that also similar to him being supernatural so none of the laws of the universe apply to him?

It's like a politician that's above the law.
It's impossible to argue against that. Not necessarily for the right reason though.

Well in order for God to follow a moral standard there needs to be a moral law giver, which would make that moral law giver the true God. This is not the case.

You need to clearly show God being morally unjust to prove the point you are trying make. And if you want to highlight the horrific death of children in a tornado, I want to go 1up on you and highlight God annihilating every person on the planet (save the 8 on the Ark) in a global flood.

God is perfect, we are not. God is justified in exacting judgement on whomever He wishes because they bear sin and rebellion against Him or the effects of sin and rebellion against Him. We are morally wrong when we do the same unless we use the government for justice, God establishes governments no matter how bad to execute justice here on Earth for sins against one another, in lieu of Him giving final judgement after death (Romans 13:1-7)

But then that brings me back to my original question of what makes your beliefs right about God but another religion wrong? And please don't say you answered that already cause you didn't.

You have asked more than once why my beliefs are right and others are wrong. I gave you several evidential claims and you reject them, say I have no evidence and say that I believe solely on blind faith. I dont know what more you want

But you have conversely refused to acknowledge your firm belief in aliens despite no presence of the empirical evidence you are faulting God for. I have called for you to account for this duplicity and you have avoid to.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ I said before have no firm belief in aliens. I said that given the requirements for life on our planet, there are a vast number of other solar systems with planets that are the right distance away from their sun to be able to support life. That is a fact with empirical evidence to back it up.

I do not believe there are sentient aliens running around on earth in flying saucers abducting humans . There is no empirical or testable evidence of it.

Well in order for God to follow a moral standard there needs to be a moral law giver, which would make that moral law giver the true God. This is not the case.

If God is the moral law giver, won't he follow his own laws? Our legislature still has to follow the laws they make, not so?

You need to clearly show God being morally unjust to prove the point you are trying make. And if you want to highlight the horrific death of children in a tornado, I want to go 1up on you and highlight God annihilating every person on the planet (save the 8 on the Ark) in a global flood.

what is morally just in wiping out 2 schools with kids (on the news this morning I saw one who survived now paralyzed for life) or wiping out all of life on earth leave for 8?

If you claim that we do not have the capacity to comprehend the morality of all God's actions, how then can you claim to have the capacity to comprehend his word enough to have faith in it. If so then that is blind faith. Not so?

[rocknrolla]

my quote applies to everyone in this thread who cannot say with absolute 100% certainty, that they know what they talking about.

them who want evidence, im working on it. if i learn to levitate i gwan fly straight up in the sky over trinidad and shout...

"allyuh fawkers... here's your evidence"

that is plan A LOL

[Daran]

Do you know that if the earth moves as much as 1 mm closer to the sun, everything on the earth will burn to ashes, also moving 1 mm away from the sun will cause the earth to become an ice cube.... and that is according to the scientists that you “worship”.

HOLY SH*T......This is precisely why I have come to hate religion when it turns people into irrelavent idiots.

New_SPECIES, please explain earth's orbit then. The earth moves 5,000,000 km, closer and further from the sun every year. It's part of the Elliptical Orbit which clearly was not thought to you in Church


Then how is it that there is a 99.999999% of life somewhere in the universe.
It means that if a planet exists somewhere in the universe with life just as planet earth, that planet will have to be almost the exact distance away from its sun just as ours.
And that’s if the sun in that universe has the exact size and mass as our sun.
And that’s if the sun of that universe is producing the same intensity if heat.

But according to your assumption (sorry, your approx calculations), there is a 99.999999% chance ...............and therefore that is enough grounds to place your firm belief in. But then you question and doubt any and every explanation about god.

Listen young man, I don't know what they teach you in Sunday school, but please look up the Drake Equation.

But you probably won't understand it so let me explain something.

There are at least 10 sextillion stars in the universe......that is 10 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000

Do you REALLY think that life exists only on earth? It's a matter of probability, and given the fact it happened here, means that it could happen elsewhere. In fact, it more than likely happened on Mars (still to be proven, but there is evidence of Martian Bacterial fossils.).

The universe could teeming with life.

^^^You are yet to account for you firm belief in the arguments for aliens yet displaying unreasoned scepticism for the arguments for God.

Well Habit7, I guess that’s the man’s reason behind his firm belief of aliens... He finally got the calculations right!

New_SPECIES, Lol@ burying myself deeper and deeper? Your position is simply. "Omg omg how can you not believe in God, omg"......I can't expect you to argue with logic and reasoning since there's none proving religion or God in anyway.

Never did I give the impression "Omg omg how can you not believe in God, omg"...

That’s probably what your brain interpreted from the arguments brought forward.

For you to respond to me with a quote like that is embarrassing... LOL ok

I proceeded to provide time line history of real successive events and gave definitions and meanings for terms that you continuously and clearly cannot understand I'm sure I don't Mr. 1mm. I also provided a logical explanation for the progressive release of information from god and why it took that progression.

Every time you hit me with one of your senseless reasoning, I simply show you how senseless what you are saying really is.
Your answers to my questions and your reasoning behind it, sounds like something from a child under the age of 12. brb....1mm away from dieing

That is why this guy said:

you all can get so close and miss the point, and do that over and over again... it is very difficult to watch. like seeing a blind monkey getting close to the banana u threw for it and then turning in another direction palming the floor for the banana in blindness.. over and over again.

Not a scratch.

Let me ask you something, if your explanation and reasoning is so clear cut and without a doubt, then how is it that the people who follow your belief you are so small in number. In other words, how are you in a minority group?
We are not small in number, there are entire countries such as the Scandinavian countries, Japan and most of Europe where Atheism is DOMINANT. The more intelligent and civilized a society becomes the more it rejects religious superstition. I'm sure you view the witchdoctors of Africa as crazy and deluded. That's the EXACT same way I view you. So please understand. [/color]

Is it because you are superior in ‘Logical’ thinking as compared to the world... There was a time when everyone thought the world was flat, black people should be slaves and that the earth was the center of the universe. People were once ignorant, but a select few rejected their inherited ideals and proved with Science these falsehoods. Religion is the bane of it all

Oh yeah, I forgot, you using Gandhi’s quote out of context...

By the way.... what does OMG mean to an organism like you?

[Daran]

If God is so good, merciful, perfect, loving and just.

Why banish his 'children' to hell? Why even create hell in the first place? Why does he demand so much worship and fear?

Read and consider and this analogy.

Would you raise your own child to worship and fear you and if he/she breaks this rule, punish them for eternity? That's pretty much child abuse, which is exactly what i'm accusing your God of.

[djaggs]

I just did a search under Islamic Science and this was the first paragraph that appeared in Wikipedia:

This article is about the history of science in the Islamic civilization between the 8th and 16th centuries. For information on science in the context of Islam, see Islam and science.

­Science in the medieval Islamic world, also known as Islamic science or Arabic science, is the science developed and practised in the Islamic world during the Islamic Golden Age (c.750 CE – c.1258 CE). During this time, Indian, Asyriac, Iranian and especially Greek knowledge was translated into Arabic. These translations became a wellspring for scientific advances, by scientists from the Islamic civilization, during the Middle Ages.[1]


Scientists within the Islamic civilization were of diverse ethnicities. Most were Persians,[2][3][4][5] Arabs,[4] Moors, Assyrians, and Egyptians. They were also from diverse religious backgrounds. Most were Muslims,[6][7][8] but there were also some Christians,[9] Jews[9][10] and irreligious


The knowledge they gained came when they conquered these territories. They translated the scientific writings of these nations into Arabic and studied them.

The writings of the Greek scholars like Aristotle and others were studied by Islamic scholars.

Many of these Greek writings were also studied by later Christian scientists like Newton and Galileo.

[Dizzy28]

But Gandhi is the one who said he likes your Christ but not your Christians.

Well much like it will be offensive for someone to tell you, "I like you as a person, but I just can't stand your wife," in like manner Gandhi cannot claim to like Christ and not like what He calls "His bride," the church. If Gandhi truly liked the biblical Christ he would have fallen in submission to Him, and not fall in love with a Christ of his own creation which seemed to have no problem with his Hinduism.

There are inspiring stories and lessons to be learned in the Bible. So too the Quran, the Gita. No religion can claim to be perfect enough for someone to submit to it alone.

It makes sense to take the best from all and leave out the weaknesses.

[rocknrolla]

because u have to burn in the fire to be purified. 100 degrees celcius to kill all the germs and bacteria (lol) corrupting ur spirit towards wickedness which are acts against others like u who are God's children. a parent protects all their children and guides all towards success. some have to burn to learn, some does learn after a couple hard lash. and others will learn with a simple slap on the wrists. but at the end of the day.. truth is truth, whether u believe in it or not. whether u can see it or not.. and whether u have the observational tools necessary to perceive it or not. it's like saying to the man who mated with ur mother he is not ur father.. whether he is just a sperm donor or not.. nothing u say will change the fact that u were born of his genetic material and life giving essence.


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[Habit7]

^ I said before have no firm belief in aliens. I said that given the requirements for life on our planet, there are a vast number of other solar systems with planets that are the right distance away from their sun to be able to support life. That is a fact with empirical evidence to back it up.

So when stev says "if someone believes that there are no other lifeforms in the universe then they are fools" and reply with "I agree" is that not firm belief? viewtopic.php?f=4&p=7089037#p7089006

Having planets inhabiting the 'Goldilocks Zone' is not empirical proof for life on other planets. There are scores if not hundreds of variable that allow for life on Earth. Empirical proof for life on other planets will be the empirical proof for life on other planets, not a location of a planet within a solar system.

If God is the moral law giver, won't he follow his own laws? Our legislature still has to follow the laws they make, not so?

You are failing to identify God's moral transgression in this. People might be innocent on a horizontal level to us, but on a vertical level they are guilty and fallen.

what is morally just in wiping out 2 schools with kids (on the news this morning I saw one who survived now paralyzed for life) or wiping out all of life on earth leave for 8?

You need to plead the case why God is wrong and why God should allow not just these children, but everyone on the planet to die at the ripe old age of 100, quietly in their sleep, with all their faculties. In fact, you need to plead the case why God should allow nobody to die, but have best possible life ever.

Bad stuff happening in the world does not disprove God, it shows us that there is a moral absolute to even recognise that the happening is bad, there is a moral law giver that determines that it is bad, and that the moral misgivings that we do equates that we are bad. What will a good and perfect God do with bad people, judge them. In order for them to be approved by God they must need a righteousness not of their own, that righteousness must match the perfect righteousness that God has. That righteousness is found in Jesus Christ who was God in the flesh who was able to suffer the judgement that those who believe in Him deserves and impute to them the righteousness that He has, even as a man.

In Luke 13:1-5 some men asked Jesus what was the reasoning two local catastrophes from the view of what greater moral wrong did these people do that we are not suffering the same fate. Jesus replied that unless you repent, you are not just going to likewise die (whether catastrophically or naturally) but you will suffer eternal punishment. These natural disasters are supposed to remind us that we live in a fallen world and we are fallen people and God will judge His creation.

[Habit7]

If God is so good, merciful, perfect, loving and just.

Why banish his 'children' to hell? Why even create hell in the first place? Why does he demand so much worship and fear?

Read and consider and this analogy.

Would you raise your own child to worship and fear you and if he/she breaks this rule, punish them for eternity? That's pretty much child abuse, which is exactly what i'm accusing your God of.

Who says children are going to Hell?

[Dizzy28]

because u have to burn in the fire to be purified. 100 degrees celcius to kill all the germs and bacteria (lol) corrupting ur spirit towards wickedness which are acts against others like u who are God's children. a parent protects all their children and guides all towards success. some have to burn to learn, some does learn after a couple hard lash. and others will learn with a simple slap on the wrists. but at the end of the day.. truth is truth, whether u believe in it or not. whether u can see it or not.. and whether u have the observational tools necessary to perceive it or not. it's like saying to the man who mated with ur mother he is not ur father.. whether he is just a sperm donor or not.. nothing u say will change the fact that u were born of his genetic material and life giving essence.


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That's a fact. A fact can be a truth.

[Daran]

If God is so good, merciful, perfect, loving and just.

Why banish his 'children' to hell? Why even create hell in the first place? Why does he demand so much worship and fear?

Read and consider and this analogy.

Would you raise your own child to worship and fear you and if he/she breaks this rule, punish them for eternity? That's pretty much child abuse, which is exactly what i'm accusing your God of.

Who says children are going to Hell?

These natural disasters are supposed to remind us that we live in a fallen world and we are fallen people and God will judge His creation.

This makes no sense. Why did your God create this fallen world?

Does the bible really preach hell is eternal? Don't you see a problem with that? If a man raped and killed my mother, wife and children....even I, an unholy atheist, would not subject that individual to eternal punishment. Eventually after 30 years or so, I'd say enough is enough, he has suffered for his wrongs. Am I more forgiving that God? It seems quite malicious that a being supposedly so good and perfect would create Hell and banish people who rejected his existing


As for extraterrestrial life (not intelligent ETs), me stating that there's a 99.9999% is based on scientific fact and probabilities. I am open to the fact that there may be change life does not exist anywhere but here on earth. If that were so, it changes nothing in my disbelief in God, but would in fact make me and other like minded individuals cherish our planet and life even more. And not waste it submitting ourselves to a make believe malevolent God.

[djaggs]

You know, the ineteresting thing is. I believe there is life on other planets. I believe that God may have created life elsewhere, why only on earth ??

But then I also believe that earth is more than 6000 yrs old.

I posted a video with a lecture by prof John Lennox where he explains the danger of trying to make the bible say more than it actually does. It doesnt say that the earth is 6000 years old,we make that assumption. It does not say that there is no life on other planets, we make that assumption.

I also actually believe that there is strong evidence that suggests that we are being visited by extra terrestrials (dont know if i spelled that right).

If there is life on other worlds, the Bible does not talk about it. What it does talk about is life here on earth, and that is what matters to me. The other things I can only speculate.

The Bible is all about God dealing with man here on earth, not about how He is dealing with some other creation elsewhere in the Universe. I suppose that when we meet Him we will know all the answers.

But I suppose that man is different to all His other creations. He says he made us in His image. That makes us different, I dont know anything about other worlds.

When His redemption plan is complete, perhaps then we will understand our place in the Universe.
The Bible speaks about the next Millenia when there will be peace on the earth. Perhaps this will be a time when humans explore other civilizations, I am just speculating....but why not?

Truth is, are we ready to explore other civilizations now?? Wont we take our greed and lusts to those worlds and see them as places to conquer and exploit, just as we have done to this world?? If we are going, I think we have to be ready spritually and morally.

[MG Man]

Do you know that if the earth moves as much as 1 mm closer to the sun, everything on the earth will burn to ashes, also moving 1 mm away from the sun will cause the earth to become an ice cube.... and that is according to the scientists that you “worship”.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
WHOGARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRD
hos how old are you?
Six?
I not gonna even bother explaining why you are a moron

[rocknrolla]

the man is not a moron because he doesnt know something or didnt research it properly.. however his point still stands...

call it luck but the chances that we'd fall into an orbit with a star just the right size and distance away to foster life all by chance with no intelligent intervention are astronomical. but ppl fedup bring these kind of points across. i myself have realised that there is no evidence that is validating to all except HARD EVIDENCE. facts, conclusions, logical thought.. all those types of evidence are weak in this kind of debate. some ppl will take factual evidence and some will ask.. who's facts?

there is another kind of evidence.. absent yourself from ur body and watch as u float away and out of it, and realize that the spirit doesnt need a body. God's mercy and grace is in giving everyone eternal life(in the spirit) and the free choice to do with it as they please.

the laws of creation are hinged on action and consequence. even a science man should understand that. good actions bring good consequences. bad actions bring bad consequences. this is the foundation for Newton's law of motion.

so u want to get free will free, eternal life free, but u want to have no consequences for bad actions and only consequences for good actions? no punishment just reward? sorry but that is a bit GAY. and i mean.. one sided, selfish, revolving around oneself.. like satan... trying to achieve the goal by cheating with ur own 'bright idea'.. trying to make a baby by masturbating by urself. it WILL NEVER HAPPEN. simple

even a hermaphrodite is obeying the law of creation to make a child. 2 dicks cant make a child, and neither 2 pink lips. u need one of each. ying and yang!

[Habit7]

This makes no sense. Why did your God create this fallen world?

Does the bible really preach hell is eternal? Don't you see a problem with that? If a man raped and killed my mother, wife and children....even I, an unholy atheist, would not subject that individual to eternal punishment. Eventually after 30 years or so, I'd say enough is enough, he has suffered for his wrongs. Am I more forgiving that God? It seems quite malicious that a being supposedly so good and perfect would create Hell and banish people who rejected his existing

God did not create a fallen world. Man's sin plunged the world into a fallen state. You are not more forgiving than God, if you are a red blooded male like I am, you have probably lusted after someone's mother, wife and even children, God considers lust as adultery (Matthew 5:28) thereby making you just as guilty as the hypothetical man, hence the reason you dont see the need to punish him.

But because God is so eternally worthy, so perfect, compared to you an "unholy atheist," sin against Him requires eternal punishment. And as I said God doesnt "banish people who rejected his existing," He punishes those who sin against Him.

As for extraterrestrial life (not intelligent ETs), me stating that there's a 99.9999% is based on scientific fact and probabilities.

And I asked you before to quote your source on this.

[New_SPECIES]

Do you know that if the earth moves as much as 1 mm closer to the sun, everything on the earth will burn to ashes, also moving 1 mm away from the sun will cause the earth to become an ice cube.... and that is according to the scientists that you “worship”.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
WHOGARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRD
hos how old are you?
Six?
I not gonna even bother explaining why you are a moron

Why can't you explain?

Maybe it's because your intellect is so low that you can't understand the difference between some trying to make a point and stating actual specs?

Don't pull out what you want from my comments and responses to laugh...

Try to at least learn something; the forum is not to learn astronomy but get an understanding about if and what is god!

I could have just gotten the exact specs from google, but it looks that you have more free time than I thought...

[New_SPECIES]

I think you are trying to allude that there is some moral standard that God is subject to and He is violating it. Am I wrong in that assessment?

so God doesn't need to follow any moral standard? Including the one he set for u

Is that also similar to him being supernatural so none of the laws of the universe apply to him?

It's like a politician that's above the law.
It's impossible to argue against that. Not necessarily for the right reason though.

That’s why he is called God and not a word used to describe the position in society of a human...

Humans and other organisms etc are creations and God is the Creator.

Of course he follows laws and guidelines that have been set for us.

But how are you determining whether he broke a law or not.

Do you know all the reasons for his actions? You can only see the smaller picture!

How do you know where, innocent persons of different countries who endure pain and suffering, will end up?

They will be in a place (after this world) that is way better than someone who was good their whole life.
This is due to level of Tests that they went through and the right or wrong decisions made while going through these tests.
It is all written..


We have laws in every country that is decided upon by some group of idiot people, who definitely don’t abide by them.
Then you go to a court and the Judge says guilty for a particular person, that person goes to jail without a question, and that was based on the interpretation of a group of people on some evidence, the convincing ability of two lawyers, and Bribes...


We accept that system as some kinda fair justice for ourselves, (since it is international), but question actions, decisions and judgements made by god for people who breaks his laws.
God is the final judge.


Considering the way cavemen used to think before as compared to how we think now...

Do you think that you are smarter than them.... of course you are!

Because then, humans used to think inside a box measuring 1mm x 1mm, we are now thinking inside a box measuring 1mile x 1 mile.

My point is no matter how smart a human think they are, they will always be thinking inside a box.
The question is how big a box.

The planning and creation of the universe was not done in a box. And that is not even close to the capabilities of what god can do, (if u read some books I mentioned, u might have an idea).


If humans can’t even understand what was created and why certain things were created......

And if humans can’t even explain to others if something exists in the universe,

Then it just an example of how limited the knowledge and understanding of the human race are.

We can’t even imagine what is out there, (eg in space).

There are even depths of the ocean right here on earth that have been never explored due to human limitations.


But here we are trying to use our limited understanding of things to justify Gods actions and decisions.
And we are even going as far as to question his power and existence.

If alot of the atheists’ arguments of life before are based on scientists.... then I asked the question before:

Then what would have been your argument 200 years ago on the topic of Flying Machines and Men on the Moon?

Those same scientists doubted each other and argued till their death standing on the grounds that it will never happen or is never possible.

Like I also said before:

No atheists can ever say that they read any Holy Book cover to cover...

But it's either they already have all the answers, because somehow they were born with the knowledge...
Or they have endless questions without answers...

There is a reason why teacher tell students to buy text books...

It’s because they (the teachers) can't regurgitate every single aspect of a topic and some must be read up on your own.

Don’t just keep making excuses for not reading at least part of one of the books, Don’t just keep saying “I don’t know which one true” and all kinds of nonsense.

If u really want answers try one of them, and stop reading the limited posts on this forum...


As this guy said:

I could read the whole bible in the time it would take to read that

True atheists should use this forum to question and doubt quotes from particular holy books, not looking for answers from these books in the forum.

Don't come to a fight then try to learn moves...


And don’t even think of using quotes from Gandhi or even MalcolmX to defend atheists because their quotes were based on different issues.
They knew it had a god, they searched for answers and found...

After you choose a book to gather answers; when questions arise in your mind, seek guidance from one of the leaders of the religion of the book.....
Not satisfied with that; then try another book and the same questioning to the leaders etc.
Most of these leaders are given the responsibility to learn and understand the teachings of the books just as the Lecturers in Universities. They may be able to shed light on a topic that might be confusing to you.

Here you are only testing the knowledge of the Forum Members...
My point is... if you really have serious unanswered questions, then take my advice...
Or if your mind is made up, then just respect other persons’ beliefs and views.

I always kept saying at the end of my prior posts that I am not here to offend, but the atheists have other intentions.
Laugh, Ridicule and Insult others in a “supposed to be” - “mature discussion”.

There is a quote from the Quran, speaking about persons with their own belief and wish to stand by it:

“Unto you your way, and unto me mine.”
Quran; Surah 109, Verse 6



PS: There’s a difference between trying to make a point and stating actual specific facts but.....
......Kudos to Daran and MG Man who have the skill of using google..... wish I was smart like that!

Edit:.....just realized that Duane has the same skill.....!!!!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Do you know that if the earth moves as much as 1 mm closer to the sun, everything on the earth will burn to ashes, also moving 1 mm away from the sun will cause the earth to become an ice cube.... and that is according to the scientists that you “worship”.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
WHOGARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRD
hos how old are you?
Six?
I not gonna even bother explaining why you are a moron

Why can't you explain?

Maybe it's because your intellect is so low that you can't understand the difference between some trying to make a point and stating actual specs?

Don't pull out what you want from my comments and responses to laugh...

Try to at least learn something; the forum is not to learn astronomy but get an understanding about if and what is god!

I could have just gotten the exact specs from google, but it looks that you have more free time than I thought...

the earth's orbit around the sun is NOT a perfect circle, it is an elipse which means that the earth gets closer and farther away from the sun during the year (it takes one year or 365 days for the earth to go around the sun).

aphelion (furthest the earth comes to the sun) is an average of 94,509,460 miles
perihelion (closest the earth comes to the sun) is an average of 91,402,640 miles
a difference of 3,106,820 miles. That is alot more than 1mm.
There are variances of those distances every year by thousands if not millions of miles.



burning up or freezing is also dependent on the type of star, it's size and energy output, the size and atmosphere of the planet etc

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ I said before have no firm belief in aliens. I said that given the requirements for life on our planet, there are a vast number of other solar systems with planets that are the right distance away from their sun to be able to support life. That is a fact with empirical evidence to back it up.

So when stev says "if someone believes that there are no other lifeforms in the universe then they are fools" and reply with "I agree" is that not firm belief? viewtopic.php?f=4&p=7089037#p7089006

Having planets inhabiting the 'Goldilocks Zone' is not empirical proof for life on other planets. There are scores if not hundreds of variable that allow for life on Earth. Empirical proof for life on other planets will be the empirical proof for life on other planets, not a location of a planet within a solar system.

just like your hero Dr. Jason Lisle, you are seeing something infront of you but ignoring it because it does not match your own preconception.

I agree with stev because "given the requirements for life on our planet, there are a vast number of other solar systems with planets that are the right distance away from their sun to be able to support life. That is a fact with empirical evidence to back it up."

What are your comments on djaggs claims that there is nothing in the bible about a young earth?

[MG Man]

Do you know that if the earth moves as much as 1 mm closer to the sun, everything on the earth will burn to ashes, also moving 1 mm away from the sun will cause the earth to become an ice cube.... and that is according to the scientists that you “worship”.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
WHOGARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRD
hos how old are you?
Six?
I not gonna even bother explaining why you are a moron

Why can't you explain?

Maybe it's because your intellect is so low that you can't understand the difference between some trying to make a point and stating actual specs?

Don't pull out what you want from my comments and responses to laugh...

Try to at least learn something; the forum is not to learn astronomy but get an understanding about if and what is god!

I could have just gotten the exact specs from google, but it looks that you have more free time than I thought...

the earth's orbit around the sun is NOT a perfect circle, it is an elipse which means that the earth gets closer and farther away from the sun during the year (it takes one year or 365 days for the earth to go around the sun).

aphelion (furthest the earth comes to the sun) is an average of 94,509,460 miles
perihelion (closest the earth comes to the sun) is an average of 91,402,640 miles
a difference of 3,106,820 miles. That is alot more than 1mm.
There are variances of those distances every year by thousands if not millions of miles.



burning up or freezing is also dependent on the type of star, it's size and energy output, the size and atmosphere of the planet etc

good response duane, but I'd just have called him a tuntun and saved the typing