The Religion Discussion

[maj. tom]

- Abraham Lincoln, internet, 2065.

[VLDS]

Why not? If god is all knowing ent he would know everything about science? So then evolution is plausible. He must of tried and experimented until he came up with us bunch. Unless you don't believe he knows about science in which case there's a contradiction for all the believers.

[AdamB]

Why not? If god is all knowing ent he would know everything about science? So then evolution is plausible. He must of tried and experimented until he came up with us bunch. Unless you don't believe he knows about science in which case there's a contradiction for all the believers.

God created everything, including science, so yes HE knows everything about it.

Evolution may be plausible - this statement implies that it is theory not fact. If GOD chose the science of evolution to be the process by which HE created man, then that does not nullify or disprove the existence of GOD if evolution is proven, does it?

In the Quran, GOD says : And indeed We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in six Days and nothing of fatigue touched Us.

( سورة ق , Qaf, Chapter #50, Verse #38)

HE said also in Ch 41 Fussilat:

9 Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "Do you verily disbelieve in Him Who created the earth in two Days? And you set up rivals (in worship) with Him? That is the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists).

10 He placed therein (i.e. the earth) firm mountains from above it, and He blessed it, and measured therein its sustenance (for its dwellers) in four Days equal (i.e. all these four days were equal in the length of time) for all those who ask (about its creation).

11 Then He rose over (Istawa) towards the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth: "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly." They both said: "We come willingly."

12 Then He completed and finished from their creation (as) seven heavens in two Days and He made in each heaven its affair. And We adorned the nearest (lowest) heaven with lamps (stars) to be an adornment as well as to guard (from the devils by using them as missiles against the devils). Such is the Decree of Him the All-Mighty, the All-Knower.

The above shows that the earth was created (in existence) while the heavens were still in a state of "smoke", it's creation not yet completed. These "days" are not 24hr days as we know it but periods of time.

Is this evidence that GOD did not create the heavens and the earth like poof and they instantaneously appeared? Rather they took time and possibly an "evolutionary" process some might say?

[MG Man]

Who is this 'we' that god speaks of when he says 'we created...'?

[meccalli]

I refuse to accept compromises with my God. Side stepping atheists for a moment, my God relates through the torah that man was formed by his hands and set apart specifically to look over the rest of creation. He didn't have to take steps to form man from another life form. Anyone with eyes to see, will see that man is different and a peculiar creation, given so much authority and dominion over every form of life and gifted with a consciousness that reflects the majesty of God. I can't believe how humans can lower themselves to pieces of meaningless meat that evolution infers when God formed us to be so much more.

@ Mg- the father and the son, joined through the holy spirit. If you look at genesis in its original form, you see that, Jesus makes reference to himself as alpha and omega. Hebrew comes out of a pictorial root, the aleph and the tav. alephtav is the symbol that is used in place in the original hebrew script. many rabbis didn't understand what it meant. Jesus cleared that up, showing that he was there before there was an earth. Theres much more evidence for this in the ot, if you'd like, I could point them out.

[MG Man]

you do realize other animals have a consciousness too, right?
It has been proven without a doubt that other animals demonstrate sentience.
You say your god has given man dominion, but man is the only life form that lives at odds with this planet, and destroys its entire ecosystem. I'd say your god did a shiddy job with his creation

[meccalli]

That's exactly it, what other so called *animal can you see with this ability to impact so profoundly by its use of a magnificent mind. Yes i'm well aware of animals, my dog is smarter than alot of people lol. But compared to humans, i think we could agree that its nothing compared, doesn't it seem strange, like morpheus says, there's something there, strange that you can feel all your life. Evolution doesn't hold a candle to anything in deciphering our origins.

edit: look at the genesis account carefully, and look at the incursion of angels. These beings who went against God, corrupted man and all creation. who knows exactly what happened back then. If you recall the flood, its was to start afresh, God told noah in secret because he was taymin(physically perfect on a genetic level(pure human lineage). Jesus confirms this, the wicked knew knot until the flood came. It was meant as a sneak attack to kill off corruption. The second incursion occurrs, while the israelites are away for years in egypt. When they get out, what's waiting for them? Nephilim (earth born giants- tribes set on destroying the nation. God after the flood, knew that sin had entered after the garden incident. The world needed a saviour from sin, animal blood was a buffer in the meantime, it was a law, sin brought about death and life is in the blood. God took a people, a small, lowly nation and set them apart by a law. Made them wear different clothes, practice different customs- chose them for a reason- so that a saviour could be brought out of them.

And follow it down, countless times, people tried to wipe out that nation- babylon, egypt, nephilim tribes, multiple empires that oppressed them. After Jesus was successful. Israel is the key. If Israel is destroyed you see, i'll eat my bible. You can burn all because it'll be over. But every time, God miraculously saves his people. Israel ceased to be a nation for over 200 years, hitler tried to exterminate them again. But prophesied thousands of years ago, God's prophets said that God would bring his people into their original homeland. No one ever believed that they would do it. 1948 it happened, and what again? Syria and the entire afghan nations come up against this tiny, meaningless nation and try to blow it out of the earth. Surrounded on all sides,,,, they won, God did it again. The last incursion will happen and as Jesus said, as in the days of noah, so shall the end be. God is slow to anger but, the day is coming and many people will be given that opportunity to turn to him but many will again harden their hearts for love of this world. Its up to everyone to make their decision, i've made mine.

[AdamB]

^^Only the most un-intelligent of beings would ask about the "we". It's called the Royal WE and I've explained it a couple of times on this thread. Google it nah!

Father and son my foot! Why not God and his angels and his prophets? You just can't accept the FACT that the Bible is corrupted, changed by man, language no longer in usage and now obsolete, replaced by the Quran.

[meccalli]

^^Only the most un-intelligent of beings would ask about the "we". It's called the Royal WE and I've explained it a couple of times on this thread. Google it nah!

Father and son my foot! Why not God and his angels and his prophets? You just can't accept the FACT that the Bible is corrupted, changed by man, language no longer in usage and now obsolete, replaced by the Quran.

I don't travel to mecca to kiss a stone where alot of other idols of greco roman origin like diana were placed before, sorry, that could never be right.

[VLDS]

Hey mecalli fella. I don't even class myself in any religion but I don't bash them directly. That's not what this thread is about. Keep it clean and fair

[meccalli]

Hey mecalli fella. I don't even class myself in any religion but I don't bash them directly. That's not what this thread is about. Keep it clean and fair

You should read some of the other posts in this thread, I didn't bash anyone, I'm stating what I believe particularly when someone's telling me that The Quran has replaced the Bible.

[Sheriff]

lol, man say the quran replace the bible yes lol.

[quote="AdamB"]^^Only the most un-intelligent of beings would ask about the "we". It's called the Royal WE and I've explained it a couple of times on this thread. Google it nah!

Father and son my foot! Why not God and his angels and his prophets? You just can't accept the FACT that the Bible is corrupted, changed by man, language no longer in usage and now obsolete, replaced by the Quran.[/quote]

[Sheriff]

Meccalli, I totally agree with you here.

I don't travel to mecca to kiss a stone where alot of other idols of greco roman origin like diana were placed before, sorry, that could never be right.[/quote]

[AdamB]

Wow the Sheriff in town!!

What did Jesus say about those who would call him "Lord Lord"?

[AdamB]

Meccalli, I totally agree with you here.

I don't travel to mecca to kiss a stone where alot of other idols of greco roman origin like diana were placed before, sorry, that could never be right.

[/quote]
Oh, I don't worship a man, that could never be right!!

Saying that the Rabbis (jews) don't know the meaning of their own scripture..that's not criticism because you (christians) now say what Jesus said in the OT? That's putting words in Jesus' mouth, words of untruth, lies!!

BTW it's what I believe - that the Bible is obsolete, replaced by the Quran. So doh take it so hard nah..

[AdamB]

Didn't Jesus say the OT obsolete so to follow the NT? Oh right, he didn't say that, it was his misguided followers!!

[meccalli]

Ancient hebrew wasn't written with spaces, this is a well known fact among ancient pictoral languages, it was a string of text. Rabbis could not translate those 2 symbols to put a meaning, this is historically documented for thousands of years, if you are familiar with ancient hebrew, you will know how complex and how much meaning each letter has.

The alephtav is what Jesus said he was, the same that Rabbis could not translate. We see John refers to this when he says, in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. Jesus is the word of God, he is the voice. We also see instances of this where the lord's right hand is spoken of. Jesus resides as God's right hand of action. David sings in the tanakh, The LORD says to my Lord ‘Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool. Jesus is referred to as the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Jesus himself says, And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Jesus was God in the flesh, the son. So no, I do not worship a man, neither a stone. The mosaic covenant was a precursor to the messiah's coming, if you recall, the view of the temple was torn when Jesus died and the temple was destroyed soon after so no more sacrifices could be performed. hate those darn insignificant coincidences that happen so timely. Jesus came to fulfill the ot and that he did, every single one about him was fulfilled. You could go through em with a microscope and find it matches perfectly. God's word is true and will forever be.

[marlener]

AdamB I can tell you why the we can`t be referring to God,his angels and his prophets. The reason being that we both know that the prophets had nothing to do with creation not so.Also Jesus never said that the OT was obsolete,He came to fulfill and do away with certain laws and cermonies but that has been discussed several times in this thread.With reference to Jesus and those who calls him Lord Lord. It said not EVERYONE who calls me Lord Lord.This would apply accross the board for all religions.

[nareshseep]

Ancient hebrew wasn't written with spaces, this is a well known fact among ancient pictoral languages, it was a string of text. Rabbis could not translate those 2 symbols to put a meaning, this is historically documented for thousands of years, if you are familiar with ancient hebrew, you will know how complex and how much meaning each letter has.

The alephtav is what Jesus said he was, the same that Rabbis could not translate. We see John refers to this when he says, in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. Jesus is the word of God, he is the voice. We also see instances of this where the lord's right hand is spoken of. Jesus resides as God's right hand of action. David sings in the tanakh, The LORD says to my Lord ‘Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool. Jesus is referred to as the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Jesus himself says, And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Jesus was God in the flesh, the son. So no, I do not worship a man, neither a stone. The mosaic covenant was a precursor to the messiah's coming, if you recall, the view of the temple was torn when Jesus died and the temple was destroyed soon after so no more sacrifices could be performed. hate those darn insignificant coincidences that happen so timely. Jesus came to fulfill the ot and that he did, every single one about him was fulfilled. You could go through em with a microscope and find it matches perfectly. God's word is true and will forever be.

So in other words Jesus = morality

[AdamB]

Ancient hebrew wasn't written with spaces, this is a well known fact among ancient pictoral languages, it was a string of text. Rabbis could not translate those 2 symbols to put a meaning, this is historically documented for thousands of years, if you are familiar with ancient hebrew, you will know how complex and how much meaning each letter has.

The alephtav is what Jesus said he was, the same that Rabbis could not translate. We see John refers to this when he says, in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. Jesus is the word of God, he is the voice. We also see instances of this where the lord's right hand is spoken of. Jesus resides as God's right hand of action. David sings in the tanakh, The LORD says to my Lord ‘Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool. Jesus is referred to as the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Jesus himself says, And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Jesus was God in the flesh, the son. So no, I do not worship a man, neither a stone. The mosaic covenant was a precursor to the messiah's coming, if you recall, the view of the temple was torn when Jesus died and the temple was destroyed soon after so no more sacrifices could be performed. hate those darn insignificant coincidences that happen so timely. Jesus came to fulfill the ot and that he did, every single one about him was fulfilled. You could go through em with a microscope and find it matches perfectly. God's word is true and will forever be.

Oh give me a break! You just admit that from inception the people who were given the Torah did not know what it meant (for 2000 years)!? Letters in a language don't have meaning, words do when the letters are put together. It is clear to me that your belief has no foundation, you would accept any ole simmy dimmy that they blot out and put in there for you to swallow! He who know not that he knows not...but he thinks he knows...

Read the Holy Quran, the final revelation to man to be rightly guided!

[meccalli]

They still can't, it hasn't been translated into any modern day versions as it isn't considered a word. modern rabbis have chalked it up to being a grammatical marker now that they are presented with what Jesus claimed. This isn't even an issue, its fact in Rabbinic study and besides, I pointed out several other instances. btw, you ever heard of hieroglyphs? Ancient languages go way beyond words.
edit:

It said not EVERYONE who calls me Lord Lord.This would apply accross the board for all religions.

No , its a message to those who are fooling themselves into works in HIS name and rejecting to lead a righteous and surrendered life to know him. Know thy God.

[marlener]

I know what it means and I was responding to AdamB,In any religion there are persons who claim to be doing Gods` work but don`t lead a righteous life.

[AdamB]

They still can't, it hasn't been translated into any modern day versions as it isn't considered a word. modern rabbis have chalked it up to being a grammatical marker now that they are presented with what Jesus claimed. This isn't even an issue, its fact in Rabbinic study and besides, I pointed out several other instances. btw, you ever heard of hieroglyphs? Ancient languages go way beyond words.

Do you know what also go way beyond words? We call them LIES AND FABRICATIONS.

[meccalli]

So you're telling me ancient hebrew and hieroglyphics are false now...ok.

[VLDS]

So you're telling me ancient hebrew and hieroglyphics are false now...ok.

I don't think he said that. Read again.

[AdamB]

So you're telling me ancient hebrew and hieroglyphics are false now...ok.

I'm telling you GOD said in the OT, "Thou shalt have no god besides me, I am a jealous GOD", but you say that the language is so ancient it really means "I have a son now, it's ok to worship him because I am a loving GOD."

[meccalli]

David sings in the tanakh, The LORD says to my Lord ‘Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.

There's a lot more, but this plainly says it. The name of Christ himself, meaning God saves is an actual term. Yeshua being salvation. The lord is my salvation, its mentioned alot in different ways. You'll also see the prophecies of daniel, where the son of man is mentioned. The Rabbinical compilations like enochial writings and jasher also refer to this individual as son of man who is exhalted by the angels.

[AdamB]

^you put your faith (hereafter) in letters/words from languages that no one ever understood and books of the bible that have no firm authorship/preservation.

Then why are the Jews / Rabbis NOT turning to Christianity in crowds?

I agree, the promise of GOD is true. You should read in the Quran what HE promises for those who die upon disbelief, idolatry and polytheism (you fall in the last category).

[meccalli]

Then why are the Jews / Rabbis turning to Christianity in crowds?

This is all prophecy, they're stubborn, they won't turn back to God until he reveals himself in the end as their last option. Its all there, those words that supposedly have no solid authorship, (don't know where you got preservation from, scribes have been charged to produce copies that are immaculate from way back when and continue to do so today), detail God's people and events past, present and future to the T. Its funny how Allah condemns these things when his supposed shrine was filled with pagan idols at one time, now its stone worship like hindus and allows himself to be represented by astrological signs and phallic symbols. Honestly, it doesn't bother you?
This is why I consider Islam and Roman Catholicism one and the same to some extent where they express common ground along Anatolian and Roman goddess Cybele, worshipped with heavenly bodies and you didn't guess it, a magic stone - guess it's supposed origin and characteristics. Also funny when they wanted to destroy the statue of liberty, you can see her roots run parallel to islam. even the masons roots are in this, no wonder the bible condemns the whore of babylon so much. She corrupts many nations. Cybele originates from Isis, from semiramis who was mother and wife to nimrod who ran for God when he attempted Babel in babylon.


Is Allah going to punish me for unbelief now?

[AdamB]

Sorry, it was:

Then why are the Jews / Rabbis NOT turning to Christianity in crowds?