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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby boxy » March 31st, 2014, 3:20 pm

Lol they go switchback to PNM Abroad easy easy

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby REVO » March 31st, 2014, 10:41 pm

nervewrecker wrote:
REVO wrote:The Desal plant produces approx. 32iMGD of water daily(soon to be 40iMGD), half of which is utilized within the Point Lisas Estate. Where the rest goes? Yes onto the system which consist of domestic and commercial customers, not to mention through uncontrolled orifices(leaks). Is WASA only paying for what Point Lisas uses? No, they pay for 32iMGD. So it is ah buss financially for WASA. The positive is that it benefits to the citizens. I could live with that. However WASA, I am sure would have to find a way to offset that cost in the future. Perhaps by means of domestic metering and high rates.

Is recycling water to send to Point Lisas financially viable from Beetham? The distance(about 35km) from POS to Point Lisas with the creation of new pipe routes is expensive. Long ago WASA recycled water from the South Waste Water Treatment Plant and sent it to Point Lisas. WASA is about to spend over a billion dollars in revamping the sewer system throughout Trinidad and Tobago with the refurbishment of the San Fernando Waste water treatment plant. Why can't the designers design this plant to recycle water to send to Point Lisas? Wouldn't this be cheaper? Shorter distance(about 16km) and established pipe route.

In my view if we were to recycle water from Beetham Waste water we should condemn the current dump and open an industrial park or commercial centre and use the water there. Developing the land and recycling water might cost over one billion dollars...but what the heck more value for money.


WASA buys what DESAL produces and sells back half to the Industrial Estate for a profit. Without DESAL that amount of water would have been siphoned out of the distribution system short changing recipients.

The pipeline from BWWTP is a one time thing provided its sized properly and if im not mistaken BWWTP produces more than SfdoWTP. In fact the effluent volume just so coincides with the Industrial estate demand.

Something to consider:

Not everything from the influent stream BWWTP activated sludge process can remove as it receives water from the Fernandez Industrial Estate among other places. BWWTP effluent stream empties into the same water body as DESAL influent stream. Isolating BWWTP effluent from DESAL influent as well as reducing the level of pollution in the Gulf of Paria will cut down DESAL treatment costs and downtime for maintenance.

Caroni is WASA's next raw water source and anyone seen that river can tell the water is of horrid quality. Reducing pollution along its body will reduce treatment costs and the burden on tax payers pockets.

Trinidad and Tobago is a water rich country yet starved for potable water. Meanwhile other countries with very little reserves dont have thins problem because they manage their reserves properly.




I take your point however generally however there are some holes in your argument.

If Trinidad was a water rich country, why then, do we have to desalinate water. Why just not treat these "rich water sources" and produce potable water?

Yes Beetham produces more now, however San Fernando will be expanded to accommodate a bigger catchment area and hence will have more effluent to recycle.

Beetham proposed recycled effluent cannot supply Point Lisas demand at this point....it is intended to be 10iMGD. Point Lisas requires 16-18iMGD at this point and growing.

Lets say that Beetham recycled water is supplied to Point Lisas;

1. Will the cost of water increase to customers at Point Lisas since it cost more to recycle water than to desalinate it?
2. Who is paying for the excess expensive(as compared the cost of Wasa to produce water) water Desal produces which would be Desal + Beetham = 50iMGD. 50iMGD - 18iMGD(Point Lisas current demand) = 32iMGD? This is providing Desal ramps up in April as promised with this current shutdown.

Remember we are flushing Desal water when we use the toilet. How cost effective is that?

I would like to see WASA's profit margin then.

It is common knowledge that because of the water currents at sea the high turbidity water from the Orinoco River reaches our West coast coupled together with effluents from our industries etc.
How much of a difference is it going to make the effects of recycled water from Beetham is going to impact water treatment at Desal.....just looking at the macro scale. I would like to see a study to prove that?

Don't get me wrong I have no problem with recycling. What I am getting at is the economics. The architects should ensure value for money. A contract was awarded for over a billion dollars, we have even spoken about cost overruns, variations etc....

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby nervewrecker » March 31st, 2014, 11:53 pm

When I say rich I mean we have access to a lot of water (surface and ground).

Desalination came onstream due to the fact that:

i) our distribution system is inefficient due to leaks
ii) pollution levels of our surface water reserves have increased and so has the conventional water treatment process time.
There is some concern about the groundwater reserves in the Forres park region
iii) politics

As you mention DESAL water being used for flushing toilets, why not recycle both BWWTP and SFDOTP water for reuse? I have been preaching about using grey water for those kind of things so long now but like its in vision 40/40. Actually had a thread in here about a $0.01 cost per unit (cant remember if was gallon or m^3) to go towards recycling and it was avoided like the plague.

BWWTP effluent was of exceptional quality last I checked and may very well be able to be used in the industrial estate as is (for cooling machinery and that kind of stuff). If anyone can enlighten us on the pore size of the membrane employed in the reverse osmosis process one can get an idea on if that same process can be used to polish the BWWTP effluent. Should such be the case shouldnt treatment costs remain roughly the same provided its the same volume of water being treated (or maybe less if the water has a lower TSS).
Like I said, if we were to bring a grey water system onstream together with a wastewater reuse project the fresh water demand and strain on our reserves will be decreased and so would potable water treatment costs. Savings from the potable water treatment can now be redirected into reuse and desalination.

Yes water from the Orinoco and Amazon get into the Gulf of Paria contributing to its quality but we do out fair share of decreasing the quality with what the Caroni, Cipero and others empty into there. On a given day what BWWTP empties into there is no big deal as its diluted but the Gulf of Paria is fairly enclosed with more or less the same water being circulated in there so over time what it releases heaps up.
Havent been any studies on it but it should be of some concern. If everyone thinks what little they empty into there is no big deal then pretty soon it might get like the caroni.

Economics, $$$ and cents.....meh. Remember the firm Pathos awarded the contract before elections? Anyone knows what their expertise is? I encourage them to educate themselves about it.
The current administration refused to honor it and preferred to pay out $100M for being in breach of the contract and now turn around and award a how much billion dollar contract to a firm that is specialized in.....?

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby REVO » April 1st, 2014, 8:54 am

[quote="nervewrecker"]When I say rich I mean we have access to a lot of water (surface and ground).

Desalination came onstream due to the fact that:

i) our distribution system is inefficient due to leaks
ii) pollution levels of our surface water reserves have increased and so has the conventional water treatment process time.
There is some concern about the groundwater reserves in the Forres park region
iii) politics

Desalination came "onstream" because of the fact that;

1. The government of the day (Panday regime) saw a shortfall of supply vs demand. It was a quick fix and part of a "water for all" project. Of-course it was be a catalyst for gaining political points but it was for a greater good. Something I fully supported, simply because of our energy base and need for additional water. Questions were raised about the contract BOOT award similar to our current discussion and concerns.

2. I don't understand how you could link the idea of a Desalination plant as an answer to an inefficient system due to leaks. This is because with a Desalination plant adding more water on your system there would be increased pressures which in turn would create more leaks and worsen the situation. Leakage is a different issue.

3. I don't know of any exceptional increase in pollution affecting WASA's treatment to surface water. WASA continues to use the same sources of water to produce potable water. The Caroni river however was and still is a major concern with regards to pollution. The major contributor; the chicken farm effluents have been drastically reduced. With regards to Forres park I don't know of any extraction by Wasa from any Forres park or close to sources, I stand corrected.


I believe as an informed electorate( morso now than before)we should not draw lines and be quick to jump on one side but to evaluate facts and opinions to determine what's the best way forward for our country.

I appreciate a healthy dialogue nonetheless.

I love my country and would continue to work for it's best interest.

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby rfari » September 21st, 2014, 4:26 am

Lel
SIS outsources work on $1.6bn Beetham Water Recycling Project

Renuka Singh

Published: 

Sunday, September 21, 2014



Super Industrial Services Ltd (SISL) is now seeking to outsource the construction work on the $1.6 billion Beetham Water Recycling Project. A confidential tender document, obtained by the Sunday Guardian, showed the Couva-based SISL was seeking to retain other companies to begin the hefty project. The bid documents carry a deadline date of September 5, 2014, for all submissions.

The contentious project has started even as the Opposition People’s National Movement (PNM) has called for a Commission of Enquiry (CoE) into the project and its award to SISL. The Joint Consultative Committee also called for the project to be halted. 
The project was awarded to SISL on February 28, just before the long Carnival weekend. 

In the seven-page Instruction to Bid document, SISL detailed a ten-point scope of works which included everything from a bulk chemical storage area to external works and landscaping. While questions have been raised about SISL’s ability to handle the range and scope of the massive project, new information reveals that SISL is currently seeking to outsource the contract, becoming instead the project manager for the $1.6 billion project.

“In accordance with its contract with the National Gas Company of Trinidad and Tobago (NGC), SISL is required to design and build a water recycling facility adjacent to the existing Beetham Waste Water Treatment Plant (BWWTP), together with the associated pipelines and water storage facilities,” the bid contract stated. The contract also noted that the requisite works is expected to cross three major roads on central Trinidad and two rivers, the Caroni and the Guayamere.

“It has been specified by NGC that the pipeline be laid underground which will require HDD (Horizontal Directional Drilling) at the major water crossings,” the document stated. According to the Instruction to Bidders, the sub-contractors must respond within two days of the delivery of the bid documents. “No subletting of work is authorised,” it states.

The document is also prefaced with a strict confidentiality clause which debars the hired contractor from making any “statements to the media” or “disclosing any information to any unauthorised person(s) whether on or off duty, during or long after their period of assignment to the BWWRP facilities.” 

When the PNM had called for the project to be halted, Opposition leader Dr Keith Rowley wrote to President Anthony Carmona on March 10, 2014, asking him to use his authority to “investigate and call upon” Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar to explain the circumstances and award by the National Gas Company/WASA of a contract for the Design and Build, Operation and Maintenance of the Beetham Water Recycling Plant together with the associated pipelines and water storage facilities to SISL.

The Sunday Guardian e-mailed SISL’s project manager Joachim Reinert and one of the South-based companies listed on the bid documents. There was no response. The Sunday Guardian also texted and called Energy Minister Kevin Ramnarine for further clarification on the project, but he did not respond.

Finance Minister Larry Howai referred to the billion-dollar project briefly during the reading of the 2014/2015 budget earlier this month. He said then that work was “being vigorously pursued on establishing a daily supply of water for all our citizens.” Howai said, “With the completion of the Beetham Waste Water Project, the Industrial Estate at Point Lisas will benefit from a reliable and high quality water supply, thereby diverting ten million gallons per day of good-quality potable water to the national community.” 

About SISL
The company was founded by businessman Krishna Lalla and has been linked to the United National Congress (UNC), often being described as a party financier.

The company was awarded the contract despite being almost $400 million more than that of its nearest competitor. SISL also beat out more seasoned international companies including Vinci Construction, Kentz Caribbean and Latin America, GLF Construction, Technologica Intercontinental, Aqualia Infrastructuras, Societe Generale Des Eaux, Doshion Private Ltd, Universal Projects Ltd, Seven Seas Water (Trinidad), AST Clean Water Technology, Earth Company Ltd and GE Water.

PNM calls for CoE
PNM chairman Franklin Khan and the party’s public relations officer Faris Al Rawi yesterday reiterated Rowley’s call for a CoE into the award of the Beetham Water Recycling Project to SISL. Speaking at yesterday’s post general council press briefing, both men said that the Government should but would not call for a CoE into this matter. 

They say that the Government was focusing on the Housing Development Corporation (HDC) Las Alturas project in order to tie Rowley to an investigation in an election year. “They fishing for something, but the fish not biting,” Khan said. “They will never call an inquiry into themselves. We know that they will not call it,” Al-Rawi added.

“There are many reasons why a Commissions of Enquiry needs to be called into this Governments management, but we are confident that they will not do that,” he said. 


http://m.guardian.co.tt/news/2014-09-21 ... ng-project

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby zoom rader » September 21st, 2014, 5:11 am

^^^ Yeah what de issuse here mamoo , outsourcing is nothing new it was done on PNM Lara Stadium where Karamat got the sub contract.

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby rfari » September 21st, 2014, 5:13 am

Read the entire article nah

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby zoom rader » September 21st, 2014, 5:21 am

rfari wrote:Read the entire article nah


You cant really trust Trini Media as it is often full of mis-truths .

seeking to outsource is not the same as Outsourced

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby rfari » September 21st, 2014, 5:24 am

Lel. If u only know.

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby zoom rader » September 21st, 2014, 5:26 am

rfari wrote:Lel. If u only know.


Well share what you know mamoo , I am sure the public wants to know.

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby rfari » September 21st, 2014, 5:27 am

I post the article.

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby zoom rader » September 21st, 2014, 5:29 am

rfari wrote:I post the article.


Again you cant trust Trini media.

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby rfari » September 21st, 2014, 5:30 am

Well then, run around. Maybe the article isn't for you. No need to comment

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby zoom rader » September 21st, 2014, 5:33 am

rfari wrote:Well then, run around. Maybe the article isn't for you. No need to comment


There are always two sides to a story and we all know how very well Trini media mis leads the public.

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby rfari » September 21st, 2014, 5:33 am

K

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby RASC » September 21st, 2014, 6:00 am

He has not a leg to stand on.
Leave them...their time soon come.
But according to them everyone happy with this govt. But its clear they don't talk to anyone but the mirror.

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby greggle71 » September 21st, 2014, 7:20 am

This one could get messy

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby 16 cycles » September 21st, 2014, 8:24 am

Dunno so i asking...

It possible to execute a >1B contract without sub contractors?

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby White CZ4A » September 21st, 2014, 8:37 am

Plenty markup in that contract price.
Job probably costing half the price. Usually they do sub out some of the work. But the majority is done by the main contractor.

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby PapaC » September 21st, 2014, 3:21 pm

According to the Instruction to Bidders, the sub-contractors must respond within two days of the delivery of the bid documents


That timeline...

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby nervewrecker » March 1st, 2015, 11:50 pm

And you mean they squatting too?

Commissioner of State Lands Ian Fletcher says that Couva-based conglomerate Super Industrial Services (SIS) has been illegally occupying some 35 acres of land in Perseverance Village, Couva.
Fletcher, in an interview with the Express last Friday, said that SIS does not have tenancy for the 35 acres of land which it has already cleared and blocked off with fences since last July.
The land belonged to Caroni Ltd and was once vested to the Estate Management and Business Development Co Ltd (EMBD), but has now been vested with the Commissioner of State Lands.
That unit falls under the Ministry of Land and Marine Resources, headed by Minister Jairam Seemungal.
SIS, founded by Krishna Lalla in 1979, has a main office at Rivulet Road, Couva, and another office at Farm Road, Perseverance, which acts as a warehouse operation.
It is adjacent to the land that the company has fenced off.
“SIS does not have a tenancy for the land. I know they have a lease for part of the land, but not for the other part,” Fletcher said.
Under the Basdeo Panday administration, SIS obtained a lease for a 30-acre parcel of land on which its warehouse and some of its business operations are now located.
Last August, the Sunday Express had exclusively reported on the land grab by SIS.
Sunday Express investigations had revealed that some farmers, who had been squatting on the lands for some 15 years, quit their crops after being offered cash by SIS to vacate the land.
Some farmers claim to have been intimidated into vacating the land, while others accepted $2,000 to $5,000 to abandon the land.
Caroni officials had told the Sunday Express they were unaware of any approval being given to SIS.
Ronald Alfred, head of the Original Jab Jab, who has been squatting on his piece of land for the last 15 years, turned down a cash offer of $50,000 from SIS to vacate his land.
He has since sought the assistance of Couva North MP Ramona Ramdial in getting a lease for the land, but the matter has not yet been resolved.
As of now, SIS has basically taken the place of the farmers squatting on the State lands.
Fletcher explained that SIS has only now applied to his office for tenancy of the land.
“They are now going through the process of complying, but I don’t know if they will get the approvals,” he said.
Pressed on what action he would take if SIS was not granted final approval for the land, Fletcher replied: “They will be asked to vacate or I will remove them.”
SIS is a business conglomerate that has been the recipient of million-dollar contracts from the People’s Partnership Government.
The Express tried unsuccessfully to contact SIS’ chief executive David Lumsden for comment.
Lalla has said he does not own SIS.


http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/SIS ... 96271.html

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby Slartibartfast » March 2nd, 2015, 8:41 am

UML wrote:is the problem the price? or is it because it was SIS?

do we support our local industry or send our money abroad?

yes I agree that the difference in price is worrying..then you have to consider quality and local employment benefits

Both. The price is exorbitant and SIS is a known party financier. These two points alone make it "worrying". But answer me the questions below.

Why wasn't the price negotiated when there was such a huge price difference?

What was the cause for the increase in engineer's estimate from US$130M to US$137M? Did you notice that previous to that change the bid from Atlatec SA de CV was closer to the engineer's estimate?

Why wasn't an extension of time given for bids to allow the other bidders to complete their bid?

Why was the tender let without proper competition? Industry norm is for the bid to be re-tendered if there are less than three responsive tenders received. Why wasn't that done in this case?

Can't provisions be put in place for local labour (like minimum 80% local labour and 50% supervision) and transfer of skills and information?

What "quality and local employment benifits" justify a TT$400,000,000 higher price tag? Are you actually aware of the details of the bids and labour procurement strategies or just talking out of the wrong orifice?

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Re: Wastewater Plant Contract

Postby supercharged turbo » March 2nd, 2015, 12:45 pm

Out the wrong hole

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