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WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

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WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby Sanctifier » July 24th, 2015, 11:39 am

Are you planning a DIY "Bodywork & Paint" project to save scarce $$$$$ :?:
That has been my dream for 3 DIY project cars, for a number of years... but many issues keep 'getting in the way'...
Sanctifier wrote:Equipment costs: - BIG compressor & Air-lines, Pressure Pot etc....

Environmental issues: The neighbourhood will 'shut me down' VERY quickly if dust, fumes etc. become a problem; so the following are critical: - DIY (temporary) Filtered booth, w/ exhaust fan, ducting etc...

In order to survive 'to tell the tale'; I'll need top-quality safety equipment: -
Supply Air Respirator or at least a GOOD particulate Respirator....
After all of that, you'll end up spending more that you save!
You get the idea :roll: ... but now there's a viable, 'green', cheaper alternative... at least for the 'media blasting issue'...

WATER BLASTING: A safer, DIY alternative to sandblasting... and the equipment is 'dirt cheap'!
Sanctifier wrote:btw... IMPORTANT... & CHEAP! :lol:
Check "Water Blasting" on YouTube, before starting bodywork.
It uses a US $55.00 adapter added to the wand of a gas-powered pressure washer, that siphons (or pressure feeds) media (e.g. recycled glass @ US $10.00/50 lb bag) from a bucket (or pressure pot) to sandblast the shell with NO DAMAGE to the shell... little or no dust... and easy cleanup too!!
Best Results: Strip car first and blast inside & out before bodywork!
................ Use a 3,000-3,500 psi Pressure Blaster if available...
................ Buy the best 'Sand Mixer Head' you can afford...
................ Avoid silica (beach) sand. Recycled glass bottle (US $10 / 50 lb bag) is safer & faster.

Here are links for an even faster, pressure pot upgrade option if available...


It's the cheapest, easiest & most affordable "green" option available to diy tuners so far.

NB. IMHO you should still protect your skin, eyes & lungs when using the blaster. I suggest using a full body suit with hood, face mask & good quality (3M's?) particulate respirator at a minimum... or even better a Supply Air Respirator [I](Rent one if available.)

Link--> North Star Water Blaster.
BTW to stop 'flash rusting' after water blasting, add this to the chemical tank of your pressure washer...
HoldTight © 102 Flash Rust Inhibitor and Salt Remover.
This is what the foreign 'pros' use to solve that problem.

CLEAN-UP: Spread plastic sheeting under the car to catch the water and slurry...
............... Allow water to run-off first... then wrap sheeting and dispose of in garbage bag.
If you want to be extra careful, use a portable tent or car-port (Pricesmart) as well.

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Last edited by Sanctifier on August 3rd, 2015, 11:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby X_Factor » July 24th, 2015, 9:00 pm

nice!!
did u try it yet?

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby dawgscrew » July 25th, 2015, 6:56 am

Nice

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby Sanctifier » July 26th, 2015, 8:37 am

X_Factor wrote:nice!!... did u try it yet?
The Evo 6 is finally 'coming back home' from storage next week, for full 'rotisserie restoration'.
Definitely a water blasting candidate for the shell, suspension & drivetrain parts.
BBS Evo 6 RS2 02.jpg
BBS Evo 6 RS2 02.jpg (211.2 KiB) Viewed 11836 times

I already have a pressure pot & compressor. Going to buy a Water Blaster kit this week. Hunting for local recycled glass media. If not available, I'll import 50 lb bags from the US when req'd... enough for three project cars.

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Last edited by Sanctifier on November 22nd, 2015, 9:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby X_Factor » July 26th, 2015, 12:14 pm

nice
hit up this dude a pm, maybe me may sell you the blasting media you need
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=74998

i know he has a wide variety and brings in a decent quantity

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby black start » July 26th, 2015, 1:20 pm

subscribed

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby MG Man » July 27th, 2015, 10:02 am

I'm skeptical about pressure blasting with plain water....exposed metal rusts VERY fast..there's a company offering wet blasting, but they use an anti-corrosive agent in the water, to inhibit corrosion once bare metal is exposed to air, giving you time to proper dry the body shell and prime it

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby nigie » July 27th, 2015, 10:18 am

sancti...in your evaluation u concluded that blasting will save u $$$$ as opposed to the other methods of paint removal?

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby cinco » July 27th, 2015, 10:43 am

MG Man wrote:I'm skeptical about pressure blasting with plain water....exposed metal rusts VERY fast..there's a company offering wet blasting, but they use an anti-corrosive agent in the water, to inhibit corrosion once bare metal is exposed to air, giving you time to proper dry the body shell and prime it

Yuh eh see d man tell yuh d chemical to use to stop rust? Yuh twit

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby MG Man » July 27th, 2015, 11:26 am

my bad


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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby Sanctifier » July 27th, 2015, 10:33 pm

X_Factor wrote:nice
hit up this dude a pm...
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=74998
Thanks for the heads up. I'll give him a call. It might be difficult for him to beat a 1st cost of US $10.00/50 lb bag.

MG Man wrote:... an anti-corrosive agent in the water, to inhibit corrosion...
Yup, I agree. I think you may have missed it in my 1st post...
Sanctifier wrote:BTW to stop 'flash rusting' after water blasting, add this to the chemical tank of your pressure washer...
HoldTight © 102 Flash Rust Inhibitor and Salt Remover.
That gives you 3 extra days protection to dry & prime etc. IMHO I would also use a 'heat gun' especially in multi-layer or overlapping spot-welded areas. (top strut mounting points, etc.)
Sanctifier wrote:EDIT: According to Ninecast Eng. Services, HoldTight 102 gives about a 1-1/2 day 'window' due to higher humidity.

nigie wrote:sancti...in your evaluation u concluded that blasting will save u $$$$ as opposed to the other methods of paint removal?
Yup, abrasive discs cause too many localized 'hot spots' that stretch sheet metal (especially the Evo's aluminium fenders & bonnet), so that's out!
IMHO a quart of paint stripper is very expensive these days. Stripper for a whole car, inside & out (plus removing undercoating, sealers, paint, muck, rust etc.) is expensive... plus the 'time'... 'mess'... 'chemical fumes'... & 'clean up' :roll: Even 3M synthetic stripping pads are pricey IMHO... and I have to consider "future cost." With 3 project cars lined up NOW, it will be $$$$$!... plus whatever else comes after that. (Young son! :lol:)
Just too much hassle for me these days... I prefer to play with a new toy instead. :lol:
cinco wrote:... Yuh eh see d man tell yuh d chemical to use to stop rust? Yuh twit
Easy, cinco... not so harsh. These days I miss things too often, myself. :lol:

SUMMARY: At a quick glance, costing seems to be as follows:
_ _ _ _ Blaster = US $55.00 + Recycled Glass = US $10.00/50 lb bag x 6 bags(?)
_ _ _ _ Initial cost = US $115.00
_ _ _ _ + shipping to Miami + eCourier sea freight, customs clearance & delivery = US$150.00(?)
_ _ _ _ Total Cost (US$265 x $6.45) = $1,700.00 TT(?)... and now I own the blast equipment. I already have a pressure pot, compressor, pressure washer & rotisserie; so I only have to buy cheap media & 'HoldTight' for future projects. These extra 'add-ons' may make it too pricey for a '1-off' project... but it's reasonable in my case. We'll see what happens.
Also, most 2nrs will borrow a pressure washer and blast in "syphon feed" mode using a bucket.
It will take longer but the total cost will be less than TT$1,700.00 (+ HoldTight.) Don't know what they will charge for local dustless blasting (inside & out) but since you now own the equipment then IMHO... Can't beat that price! 8-)
Sanctifier wrote:EDIT: Hi nigie. Local Dustless Blasting (inside & out + primed) = $7k based on model & condition.
With 3 projects to do, I have no choice, it must be "DIY Waterblasting" for me.
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Last edited by Sanctifier on August 13th, 2015, 10:28 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby Dave » July 31st, 2015, 8:07 am

Saw the 6 getting a low blast wash earlier this week lol. Still looks good

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby Sanctifier » August 1st, 2015, 2:04 pm

^ ^ ^ Hi Dave. Jeez! Ah can't hide at all! :lol: Yup... dust & cobwebs gone now. :D
Seriously, I got four 'offers' while it was being cleaned... Had to hide it again fast! :lol:

Finally coming home on flatbed wrecker later this week for "bare metal" rotisserie restoration...
Sanctifier wrote:Waited a long time for the $$$ to do this properly, so... 'Rebuilt'... 'Restored'... or 'NEW' everything... PERIOD! :wink:
Project should take about 12-18 months part-time. :roll:
Buying a slightly bigger water-blaster head tomorrow. Higher abrasive cfm + higher air pressure = Faster & better results.

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby Dave » August 1st, 2015, 6:08 pm

I so wanted to stop in but as usual was rushing. Next time for sure

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby Sanctifier » August 2nd, 2015, 5:23 am

^ ^ ^ Lookin' forward to it, padna.
Maybe we can find a couple 'cold ones' next door too. :drinking:

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby X_Factor » August 3rd, 2015, 8:59 pm

do u think the blaster head can work with a regular electric 2000 psi washer?

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby Sanctifier » August 4th, 2015, 10:59 am

^ ^ ^ Yup but IMHO not as well, so it'll take longer, use more media and sealers & mastic coatings will be more difficult.
Also check the 'duty cycle' of your washer to prevent overheating during the longer working cycles of waterblasting.
Sanctifier wrote:The most important factors are (1st) Flow (gpm)... & (2nd) Pressure (psi).
High flow (> 4-8 gpm) + high pressure (> 3,000-5,500 psi) + fine-to-medium (40/70) grit media = Best (smoothest) & fastest results :!:
I want the 5,500 psi, General Pump HD Blaster #DWSDBTK (+ pressure pot) to get the shell as clean as possible...
General Pump HD Blaster DWSDBTK - 5500 psi.jpg
General Pump HD Blaster DWSDBTK - 5500 psi.jpg (34.34 KiB) Viewed 11495 times
With 3 projects, I'm even thinking of upgrading (renting? :idea: ) my 2,800 psi washer to a 4,000 psi unit. :evilbat:
The chart shows the specs for various blasters... (right click image & open tab.)
_Pressure Washers Direct 5500 PSI Sand Blast Kit.jpg
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FYI: To compare; these are some of the issues faced when doing conventional sandblasting...

I also want to check if I can use the "deadman's valve" from the pressure pot (w/ same size orifice) in place of
the 'open tip' supplied, to reduce media wastage. With a longer (30"?) handle it should work okay.

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Last edited by Sanctifier on August 8th, 2015, 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby Sanctifier » August 8th, 2015, 6:05 am

^ ^ ^ 5 gal pail of HoldTight 102 on the way... Blaster kit & 2,000 lb. glass media 'buy' next week. :wink:
Evo 6 not back home this weekend :( ... Big cleanup exercise underway 8-) ... Early next week for sure. :D
Sanctifier wrote:^ ^ ^ Yup but IMHO not as well, so it'll take longer, use more media and sealers & mastic coatings will be more difficult.
I forgot to mention this... Sometimes rust is a serious problem underneath areas covered by sound deadening pads. Before 'blasting', one option is to use DRY ICE (& Rubbing Alcohol) on sound deadening insulation (on floor-pans) and other areas with a lot of sealer. Here are some examples...

With Rubbing alcohol...


Without Rubbing alcohol (Part 1)...


Without Rubbing alcohol (Part 2)...


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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby Sanctifier » August 10th, 2015, 10:56 am

Sanctifier wrote:Since my E6 will be a 'weekend driver' (and I DON'T want to have to do all this crap again!) I'm compiling a DIY BODY PREPERATION GUIDE for the various stages required. This is NOT the 10 Commandments. Process variation & chemical substitutions are possible (& sometimes necessary) since each project (& prep. surface) presents different challenges...
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . DIY BODY PREPERATION GUIDE.

#1) SOUND DEADENING REMOVAL: See post above.*

#2) ELECTROLYSIS: To 'derust' inside chassis rails and between floorpan seams & pinchwelds.

Sanctifier wrote:NB: Electrolysis is a lot of work... ▶ 1 ▶ Rust Bullet 'Metal Blast' is a viable alternative for smaller repairs.

#3) WATERBLAST (see above) and spray with HoldTight 102...

Here's a RECOMMENDED BLAST MEDIA CHART 8-) ... (Media-heavy page, so right click & 'Tab' on image.)
Paint_Scale_Rust Removal Comparison Guide.jpg


#4) RUSTPROOF: before the paint-job: ('Stages ▶ 1 - 5' req'd.)...
▶ 1 ▶ Rust Bullet 'Metal Blast'
▶ 2 ▶ Rust Bullet Automotive
▶ 3 ▶ 3M Body Schutz (or similar) Rubberized Undercoating (outer floorpan)...
(From past experience with a dump-truck, I prefer 'rubberized' undercoats to 'mastic' alternatives.)


▶ 4 ▶ Rust Bullet 'White Shell'
▶ 5 ▶ FoamSeal or Terrocore: :idea: Fill chassis rails, rocker panels & 'A' & 'B' pillars with auto urethane foam...
NB: Follow OEM repair guidelines if available, to avoid compromising chassis safety ("crumple zones") :!:

cediachassisoo6.jpg
▶ ▶ ▶ ▶ Some types can INCREASE chassis stiffness by up to 300% = Better handling & "Turn-In" (Faster response.)
▶ ▶ ▶ ▶ Improved sound insulation = Quieter Ride.
▶ ▶ ▶ ▶ LESS RUST: No spaces for dirt & moisture = Less corrossion.


#5) BODY PREPERATION, PRIME & PAINT... (Tedious & boring!) :roll:
This is a VERY detailed topic and will be covered in a seperate thread.
Try to find Car Craft - Dec. 2014 "Paint & Body Special". It's the best I ever read about DIY Custom bodywork & painting.
Meanwhile these links can help 'fill in the blanks'
...
Link--> Hot Rod mag - Paint & Body.

#6A) SOUND-DEADENING: After painting, replace sound insulation with "Lizard Skin" etc. ("spray-on"--> inner floorpan).


#6B) Use "Dynamat", "Hushmat", "Fatmat" etc. ("stick-on"--> vertical & 'compound' panels)...


Yup, the rotisserie is going to get a lot of exercise... and save a lot of time too :!:

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Last edited by Sanctifier on December 2nd, 2015, 11:45 pm, edited 12 times in total.

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby Mercenary » August 10th, 2015, 8:46 pm

superb. thanks for the detailed info. man

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby X_Factor » August 10th, 2015, 10:35 pm

http://www.amazon.com/Reckhorn-Self-adh ... +dampening

was looking at this as a cheaper alternative to dynamat extreme
the reviews looks promising

I used secondskin damplifier pro which is amazing but really heavy

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby NR8 » August 10th, 2015, 10:59 pm

How thick is the dynamat and secondskin generally?

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby Sanctifier » August 11th, 2015, 6:03 pm

^ ^ ^ Thanks for the kind words Mercenary. Glad you enjoyed it.

Hi Factor. Reckhorn ABX butyl-based Sound Deadener looks interesting. I'll have to check further. Thanks.

NR8 wrote:How thick is the dynamat and secondskin generally?...
Sorry but I really can't remember. My product info is pretty old. Maybe X-Factor can help?

EDIT: Added clips & amendments to yesterday's post.

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby X_Factor » August 11th, 2015, 6:53 pm

there are both different thickness depending on the "model"
like plain dynamat and dynamat extreme will be different thickness i cant remember but its usually aroud 80mils for the higher priced type

same as second skin damplifier vs damplifier pro both are of different thickness

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby NR8 » August 11th, 2015, 7:35 pm

Cool. Never realized they were that thick. Always thought they were about the same thickness of flashband lol. :oops:

Anyway, as always, a thread by Sanctifier never ceases to impress me.

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby Ted_v2 » August 11th, 2015, 7:37 pm

Almost twice a flash band.
Quick question tho.
Sanctifer what mods you have intended for the evo besides the restoration?

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Re: WATER BLASTING: BEST method for DIY Body Prep!

Postby Sanctifier » August 12th, 2015, 9:51 am

^ ^ ^ Good "Ahh Haa.. Gotcha!" question, Ted. :lol: After a 24-month 'Resto' (by mid-2018 I hope!); as a rank Solodex novice I'll try to reduce my 'cutazz' by competing in the lowest class that the E6 is allowed to 'run'. I don't know the current 'regs' for 'dex yet but IIRC the Image E6 RS2 has to be 'stock'. Upgrades are limited but fortunately RS2's have decent OEM parts.

My 'Bibles' are: ▶ The E6 Technical Information Manual... ▶ The E6 Workshop Manual Suppliment...
& ▶ The Image 'Group N' Homologation Forms to address the following issues:
Chassis Alignment: :idea: "3D alignment" of the shell to OEM specs.
Image Image Image ... (Click on pix.)

Overall weight...chassis balance (corner weights if available)... & ▶ suspension...
High rpm gear-change & ▶ clutch adjustment... and a few other issues. :wink:

I suspect that 1 or 2 other cars might suffer from "over generous" preparation. :roll: IMHO my best chance of winning will come right at the 'start' ... and at the 'end' of the run. I have to try to reduce 'start time' so the focus is on 'chassis balance', reduced 'suspension binding' and 'quicker gear change'. Attention to ▶ OEM ride height and ▶ better 'brake balance' will help during the 'run' too.
Sanctifier wrote:▶ ▶ Don't want to 'give away' much more right now. I may have said too much already. :lol:
More details in a future 'build' thread... after I learn the 'regs'.
:wink:
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NR8 wrote:Anyway, as always, a thread by Sanctifier never ceases to impress me.
Thanks for the kind words, NR8. Appreciate it.

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