Sterling Services Limited ordered to refund buyer for defective Benz

[skylinechild]

explain this logic to me? If i didn't supply you with said defective product why should i give a rats ass if a recall was issued?? serious question eh!

Because you're the representative of the company's brand and marque in the country, doesn't matter how I acquired the brand, what matters is I own it, many manufacturers esp of luxury goods think that way, it's a Trini thing to think otherwise. Poor business practice

UDFR ...... Yuh ain't buy it by me , you ain't service by me .... But you running to me for recall? Using up my manpower and resources ? And competing for recalled parts with my actual customer ..... Nah. If I give you a Bligh feel glad but don't expect squat.

and thats the reality of what takes place here.

imagine this scenario

1. customer buys a roro 2012 corolla (manufactured in 2012).
its now 2016. car has approx 4 yrs old.

2. the manufacturer - totoya - releases a worldwide global recall due for a part that was found to be defective - lets say faulty soldering on the circuit board on the airbag module located on the steering wheel causing the airbag to deploy randomly - which can cause serious bodily injury or even death. again MASSIVE GLOBAL RECALL.

3.cars that were manufactured between 2010 - 2014 are affected including the corolla line.

4. toyota advises customers that to have the issue rectified they can visit the local dealership -with proof of ownership and have the issue rectified.

from the above statements we can conclude the following facts
1. totoya was not aware of the issue when the cars were being built
2. they only found out of the defect long after -4 yrs.
3. your car - corolla - was affected.
4. toyota is fixing the issue.

so the big argument is that because it wasnt brought directly from toyota - it shouldn't be fixed??
the parent company issued a statement saying there is a defect and offers to rectify it...but the local dealers dont want to comply cause - yuh didnt buy it here??

does a vehicle brand / quality / commitment to service change when / if it is bought by a different vendor / dealer /locally vs overseas ????

scenario #2.

1. you buy Campbell chicken noodle soup.
2. you eat soup.
3. you get salmonella / food poisoning etc.
4. Campbell releases a statement saying any soups manufactured within the last 3 mths should not be used.
5. they offering a refund for purchasing these defective goods. in addition they are willing to pay PART of your medical expense.

too late for you - as you already eat it and suffering..

you think the manufacturer shouldnt be held accountable -regardless how the product was obtained.

so...thats like saying Campbell chicken noodle soup shouldnt be held responsible and you should stay there and suffer.
enjoy your chicken noodle soup sir * tips hat.

[DJ Q]

So when people import their own iPhones and something goes wrong, they should take it to bmobile right?

The point is not that the issue shouldn't be fixed, but that Toyota Trinidad can't be held liable for a car you purchased that probably was not even SOLD in this region in the first damn place.

Just like the Sylphys and their dashboard issues. Massy only fixed what they sold.

[sMASH]

But at the end of the day, it the MANUFACTURER says that its product is defective, they should be liable. The sellers, resellers could fix the problem and just forward the invoice to the manufacturer. Yes the local representative should be made to rectify the issue, but not absorb the cost.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

So when people import their own iPhones and something goes wrong, they should take it to bmobile right?

The point is not that the issue shouldn't be fixed, but that Toyota Trinidad can't be held liable for a car you purchased that probably was not even SOLD in this region in the first damn place.

Just like the Sylphys and their dashboard issues. Massy only fixed what they sold.

Not the same.

Recalls are done for safety reasons. Not for reliability. Reliability fixes are done thru something called service campaigns or other names.

Recalls should be carried out regardless of where bought only because it's a safety thing. The MANUFACTURER pays for the recall parts eh so doh believe any dealer telling you it costing them money. This is why recalls should be carried out regardless of where bought.

[DJ Q]

I agree with what you're saying... but who pays for the labour?
If you've ever been to TTTL, you'd know that a Hilux actually costs about $20,000, but they charge $280,000 to bring it from the port to the showroom.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

I agree with what you're saying... but who pays for the labour?
If you've ever been to TTTL, you'd know that a Hilux actually costs about $20,000, but they charge $280,000 to bring it from the port to the showroom.

Manufacturer pays for the recall. That includes labour. Dealers do not incur costs for recalls.

Service campaigns however they may tell you UDFR if you out of warranty and don't service with them.

I don't understand what you mean with respect to Hilux costing $20,000 but $280k from port to showroom.

[skylinechild]

So when people import their own iPhones and something goes wrong, they should take it to bmobile right?

The point is not that the issue shouldn't be fixed, but that Toyota Trinidad can't be held liable for a car you purchased that probably was not even SOLD in this region in the first damn place.

Just like the Sylphys and their dashboard issues. Massy only fixed what they sold.

missed the point...but in your example wit iphone and taking it to bmobile.
question:
does bmobile make the iphone.???
did bmobile issue a defect statement regarding the iphone?
was the phone damaged then brought into bmobile for repair. ??
is bmobile authorized to conduct a repair for and on behalf of the manufacturer.???

in your example bmobile does not manufacture the iphone. nor does it make any statements regarding such.
therefore taking your iphone to them to fix would be totally ridiculous. it would be even more nonsense if your phone was purchased elsewhere then you want to take it to bmobile.
in this case i would accept the excuse of we didnt sell it so therefore we cannot service it.

the only way that example you gave of taking the iphone to bmobile for repair would hold merit is if the consumer contacts the manufacturer and the manufacturer directs you to the retail outlet/ authorized dealer for repair to take place- obviously warranty must be verified -(before the authorized dealer -whoever they may be - digicel/ bmobile / f1 conect etc) who can resolve the issue.

bmobile would then address the necessary repair and bill the manufacturer the cost for the repair or for a replacement.

But at the end of the day, it the MANUFACTURER says that its product is defective, they should be liable. The sellers, resellers could fix the problem and just forward the invoice to the manufacturer. Yes the local representative should be made to rectify the issue, but not absorb the cost.

THIS ^^^ tuner got the point....

[j.o.e]

RoRo crew wanna have cake and eat it. Take your 'savings' up front on a foreign USED car and stop trying to win on both ends. Aside from that, how many recalls have there been anyway that would apply to RoRo cars?
Keep in mind a recall is not the same as a defect or general failure

[skylinechild]

RoRo crew wanna have cake and eat it. Take your 'savings' up front on a foreign USED car and stop trying to win on both ends. Aside from that, how many recalls have there been anyway that would apply to RoRo cars?
Keep in mind a recall is not the same as a defect or general failure

i sense your chess may be burning....
are you one of those who feels sense of pride (price) in buying something new from showroom??
have something to prove cause yuh cud walk in a show room.???

nevertheless can you give us your definition of the following terms
"recall" ,"defect" and "general failure"

no disrespect eah..i tryin to understand your logic.....

how much recalls would apply to RORO....it depends on the severity of the issue...and where it was announced and what it would affect.

[j.o.e]

1) my chest not bunnin
2) I've owned a foreign used car before, hence I understand that a car that was never specced for here and is not part of the batch imported here 'officially' would make claims against the dealer more difficult. I would take the gamble at my own risk for some upfront savings.

My point is historically I'm not aware of any recalls that left the RoRo buyers out in the cold. If it had ever happened open my eyes. Specifically recalls not just a mechanical or electrical problem.

[skylinechild]

1) my chest not bunnin
2) I've owned a foreign used car before, hence I understand that a car that was never specced for here and is not part of the batch imported here 'officially' would make claims against the dealer more difficult. I would take the gamble at my own risk for some upfront savings.

My point is historically I'm not aware of any recalls that left the RoRo buyers out in the cold. If it had ever happened open my eyes. Specifically recalls not just a mechanical or electrical problem.

quick run to father google
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/20150521 ... -read-this

Car owners, you need to read this

Published on May 21, 2015, 10:08 am AST
Updated on May 21, 2015, 10:09 am AST
By Sue Ann Wayow

LOCAL car dealers including Toyota and Honda have reacted to the decision by a Japanese based company to issue a recall involving 34 million vehicles, in which the air bags can explode, causing death or injury. Honda in Trinidad is unsure whether its vehicles are affected. Toyota has already received a list of chassis number to determine if its vehicles are involved in recall.

Yesterday a representative from Toyota told the Express that the company recently received the list and by today should determine if any of its vehicles would need to be recalled.

The New York Times reported yesterday that for decades one of the largest suppliers of airbags, Japanese company Takata, denied that its products were defective although automakers globally had to recall millions of cars outfitted with Takata products. Takata also produces seat belts, child seats, textile products, steering wheel systems, electronics and interior parts for vehicles.

The New York Times said that on Tuesday, Takata admitted its airbags were defective and had agreed to double the number of vehicles recalled in the US, nearly 34 million "making it the largest automotive recall in American history."

Last week, Honda, Toyota and Nissan expanded their worldwide recall by 11.5 million cars, it was reported.

The Toyota representative told the Express: "The whole world got a list of chassis numbers of vehicles that would have been affected. That came from Japan to all Toyota distributors around the world. Our IT (Information Technology) department right now is analysing that list writing a programme to match the list of those chassis numbers to see if any of those vehicles were indeed imported to Trinidad so we should have an idea by tomorrow."

The representative said: "The same company produces airbags now and even before that, but it was only for that certain time period was the airbag affected or presumably affected. So that is what they are looking at now, to determine of any of those vehicles were indeed brought to Trinidad."

A source from Honda said Honda has not yet been informed of any recall action in Trinidad and Tobago.

The source said: "What normally affects North America does not affect normally affect this part of the world. But if it does and something does happen, we will receive a bulletin and they will advise us as to how we proceed from there. I don't know if there is anything on the newer models but to date there is no impact on our cars as yet at all in fact."

The source said the vehicles produced for the Caribbean and Latin America were made in Thailand or Japan and the vehicles produced for the North American left hand drive market were assembled in North America.

"What impacts a North American car is not an impact to a Caribbean car. North America does not produce right hand drive cars. An airbag for a right hand drive car would not fit in a left hand drive car because the makeup and design is completely different. They don't come from the same source either for the two areas so many times where North American products have recalls, it doesn't impact on Trinidad," the source said.

Transport Minister Stephen Cadiz told the Express: "If there is a recall for any reason and Trinidad and Tobago is part of that recall, there is cause for concern. "

"We do know that the cars that are shipped to the United States are different to the cars being shipped to our territory. I have already checked with the agents in the shipping in Trinidad and, up to now, none of the vehicles affected from what I understand were shipped to Trinidad so I think we will be okay."

The former trade minister said if vehicles were to be recalled, the agents would be responsible for informing vehicle owners.

Cadiz said: "The manufacturers are very responsible when it comes to these recalls and I think that they would be able to track these vehicles wherever they are in the world. It is manufacturer's issue. Some of these cars are recalled within the warranty period, sometimes they are out of the warranty period but typically the major manufacturers will always honour the issue of repairing any component on the vehicle regardless of whether it is within warranty or not."

He said Government will have little influence in any recall decision.

"If it is a fault where it may be the result of an accident or resulting in an accident where they have fatality, Government would look into that as part of its OSH ( Occupational Safety and Health) Act but we have not had that situation here in Trinidad and Tobago. I don't know of any issue of any accident that was a result of a faulty component on a vehicle but it is something we could look at to ensure that if it does arise at some stage that we have the process by which we will deal with it," Cadiz said.

He added vehicles shipped to the North American market may find its way to Trinidad.

However, he said: "They (the vehicles) might find their way here through the foreign used market, but the agents in Trinidad would be hard pressed to find those vehicles if it is they came in through other means and not through the agents."


if your chassis # was found to be on that list....what then.???? does it make a difference which part of the world the car is in??

the part highlighted in blue essentially states that the dealership would have a hard time finding cars there were brought in via RORO but are affected nontheless, but it does not abscond them from the responsibility of repair.

your eyes have been opened.

[DJ Q]

I agree with what you're saying... but who pays for the labour?
If you've ever been to TTTL, you'd know that a Hilux actually costs about $20,000, but they charge $280,000 to bring it from the port to the showroom.

I don't understand what you mean with respect to Hilux costing $20,000 but $280k from port to showroom.

....sarcasm. Labour is usually way more expensive than the smallest of parts.

missed the point...

Then comment on this please:

Just like the Sylphys and their dashboard issues. Massy only fixed what they sold.

Not sure if you're aware, but previous model Bluebird Sylphys had an issue with it's dashboard where the glue was causing bubbling in the faux-leather used. As this is in fact a MANUFACTURER's defect, should Massy have fixed the RORO vehicles free of charge?

[j.o.e]

And that whole copy and paste illustrates why it would be difficult to make a claim, the manufacturer doesn't even know your car is here. They send a list of affected chassis numbers to the dealer. How can the dealer account for my RoRo car or private import ?

[toyolink]

All the motor vehicle manufacturers are extremely brand sensitive.
Manufacturer fault flows back to the brand and once a global recall is issued its just that.
What dealers do in their their respective area or country covered by their franchise with the manufacturer in many cases is not consistent with the provisions of the agreement.
Actually many of the conditions of warranty dealers place on purchasers cause great displeasure to the manufacturer.
There are many instances when owners take their concerns or complaints up directly with the manufacturer and very quickly dealers are whipped into shape.
In terms of legal redress this case with 'Sterling' demonstrates that no dealer has the right manipulate the provisions of warranty if there has been a demonstrated (evidentially) failure to meet the requirements to supply a proper product as required by the sales agreement.
Generally dealers push the limits due to fact that most local purchasers are not predisposed to executing litigation since historically our civil process is expensive,inefficient and awards low..........however things in terms of award have been trending upward.
BTW, when a warranty repair is done the manufacturer and not the dealer absorbs this cost plus a 'reasonable' service fee payment is made to the dealer (granted it may not be as large has payment as dealers blast the customer with).
I am aware that Toyota Intl stands by all its products and expect their local dealer to not abandon any Toyota owner because they didn't purchase from them (this includes RORO, returning residents etc).Reports made directly to Japan I am aware of did result in some action.
I however must add that owners who modify their vehicles and or execute inappropriate service routines could create the possibility of voiding warranties or aspects of warranties.

[skylinechild]

missed the point...

Then comment on this please:

Just like the Sylphys and their dashboard issues. Massy only fixed what they sold.

Not sure if you're aware, but previous model Bluebird Sylphys had an issue with it's dashboard where the glue was causing bubbling in the faux-leather used. As this is in fact a MANUFACTURER's defect, should Massy have fixed the RORO vehicles free of charge?

will comment no need to say please bruh

i am aware of the sylphy dash issue. it was caused by a faulty adhesive compound being used to affix / secure / stick the skin onto the dashboard itself

1. YES it was a manufacturer defect -
2. was it a global massive recall??
3. was it posing any safety issue wrt the proper operation of the vehicle.??
4. yes massey would honour anything they sold as the manufacturer themselves released a bulletin about it.

in addition this was an issue for our region - ie regionally - NOT globally - i am unaware of any such reports coming in from germany and other WORLDWIDE countries.?? can you provide such ?? google perhaps.??

AFAIK...it does not affect performance / functionality of said vehicle it does NOT pose any risk of danger to loss of life / limb. (pride perhaps)
GLOBAL recall affects all cars..not just one particular country/ region

massey would repair this dashboard issue as it falls under warranty work...and of course the car in question was built in japan the manufacturer did sell it here and of course most important the dealer who does the warranty work the cost for repair not coming from them but rather the manufacturer.

can you honestly answer question #2 and #3 above ???

And that whole copy and paste illustrates why it would be difficult to make a claim, the manufacturer doesn't even know your car is here. They send a list of affected chassis numbers to the dealer. How can the dealer account for my RoRo car or private import ?

the manufacturer / dealer can account for all cars new or RORO...just the proper procedures need to be put in place but ALL stakeholders...ppl just watch the manufacturer and say dey at fault.....and the manufacturer doesnt even know the car is here or what was done to it.

how is it the minister of trade and industry can grant concessions for RORO dealers to import cars and even give them a quantity to import.??

every ROR0 dealer must import a certain # of cars - say 50 and have the necessary means to service them until the expiration of their warranty.

that is one of the requirements a company must have in order to become a RORO dealer.
we just need to amend the laws for example to include :- but not limited to

1. have the chassis # on file for ALL vehicles brought into the country and sold - thereby creating a database of cars imported and sold. (this can also be verified against licensing office database to prevent theft / tampering of chassis #)

2.to indicate who the vehicle was sold to - only the first owner is necessary- any subsequent transfers can be tracked via L.O.

3. share this database with the respective dealerships- so then the dealerships cannot say "we dunno know if any affected vehicles are here or not"
they would already have the vehicle chassis # on file as well as a registered owner.
all they will have to to do is check this database file and see if your chassis # corresponds to the list of affected vehicles sent from the manufacturer - ie compare two lists.

the reverse should also be true- new car dealership sells a vehicle this info is automatically added to the database.

new laws will be required to allow the Creation of such a database and use of it as well as a governing body / dept / ministry will be required all working hand in hand with the ministry of trade, licensing office, fraud squad and the relevant car dealerships.

this governing body dept / ministry will be responsible for the entire database and its upkeep.

4. the database file can even be sent back to the manufacturer - as a way of indicating the lifespan on their vehicles.- it can also indicate which vehicles are still on the road in which country and the manufacturer can even decide not to stop manufacturing spares for these cars

side note _ are you aware the b13 is still being made in mexico??
not for spares but as a low cost affordable transportation for the masses..??



5. if there is a global recall - govt should then take the initiative and inform the respective parent company in japan
(as 90% of our cars here are Japanese) and say we recognize that there is a recall in XYZ model WRT to ABC defect we would like to have this rectified through your dealership here.


global recall applies (or should apply) weather warranty is valid or not

all i seem to be hearing from you two tuners is alot of nay say and cyah be done and not in a third world country....etc
if we dont hold the relevant ppl accountable for what they doing....why complain when something happens....??

so far weve all been extremely lucky WRT recalls but the day something happens to you or your loved ones...too late will be the cry.

[DJ Q]

No one mentioned anything about third world country.
I just don't agree that a local dealer should be held responsible to honor global recalls for cars not sold or serviced by them.

A lot of cars imported here were never sold here.

That's all I'm saying.

If you're saying that Toyota Japan will take the hit for the recall, then fine, I'm good with that.

[skylinechild]

No one mentioned anything about third world country.
I just don't agree that a local dealer should be held responsible to honor global recalls for cars not sold or serviced by them.

A lot of cars imported here were never sold here.

That's all I'm saying.

If you're saying that Toyota Japan will take the hit for the recall, then fine, I'm good with that.

so where does manufacturer responsibility begin....and more importantly...where does it end.????

what i'm saying is manufacturers should be responsible for the products they put out.
regardless what they product is and whatever (legal) methods the product is obtained by.

agreed that alot of cars imported here were never sold here. however why do the firm carry parts for these vehicles.??
the local b12 is different from the f used ones therefore they wud carry different temp sensors etc.
why is it that the carry parts for ALL vehicles rather than only what they sell..??

is it they realize that the majority of cars are f used...and say "hey we cud make a killing sellin replacement parts to the RORO buyers" but at the SAME time they say "nah bredda.....'we doh do recall work cause it wasnt purchased from us"....but more than willing to sell you replacement parts...door switches...lights....sensors....brake pads.....etc etc.

[tourniquet]

Lemon laws are needed.

[Morpheus]

Good info and insight guys....

[skylinechild]

Lemon laws are needed.

not soo much lemon laws .....ED might want to know why u want to have a law against citrus....

we should have better laws to ensure that there isnt any loop holes. of course there may be genuine reasons why a dealer may refuse to service a vehicle....however the option of have the vehicle defect fixed (regardless of when / how the product was obtained) should be standard.

maybe then local consumers would have better faith in their local dealer ship / brand of their choice.

how many horror stories have you heard of ppl carryin their cars to service only to find out nothing was done...substandard parts was used or in one case the entire vehicle was stolen...

[redmanjp]

local agents should have some sort of agreement with the manufacturer that deals with recalls

[pete]

Today's papers had a reminder put out by classic motors for all Hondas with defective airbags to come in and have them changed for free. Whether sold by them or not.

Way it should work is the manufacturer would supply the replacement parts and would pay the labor for the replacement.

So to say it wont work here is completely false.