A motion of no confidence..

[Miktay]

entrepreneurship isn't for everyone, I see a lot of excuses and passing the buck. The biggest hindrance locally is financing not government , lots of people are content to do the minimum and whine, some are prepared to put in the work. Links and nepotism helps but many push through without those, it's all about how badly you want it and how patient you are

Financing izan excuse IMHO. Plenty people started small fm their home and built a sustainable business.

Financing is a real consideration. not all ideas can be home started. Even small scale operations have a start up cost

Yep. But there's a little thing called savings that gets around that.

And after the initial startup there another thing called vendor financing.

[Slartibartfast]

I think we straying from the topic. Entrepreneurship wasn't what I was talking about at first and I will admit you all raised good points.

I really wanted to focus on those that think diversification of the economy is the citizens' job and that the government plays little to no part in it.

Everybody going into construction and calling them self a "civil engineer" cuz they have a pardner and see a way to make a quick million with a small contract but that is not diversifying the national economy. If you guys want to talk about cutting frivolous spending there then I agree a better way can be thought up.

I want you guys to tell me what the average citizen can do to personally diversify the economy. What's the average wage, like 8k? Factor in rent, groceries and other bills and tell me how much national diversification can be done with the disposable income left. Also keep in mind that clown Imbert thinks this extra money is too much.

I just want someone to show me the logic where they government wants to cut our spending power and then say we should be diversifying the economy.

[De Dragon]

I think we straying from the topic. Entrepreneurship wasn't what I was talking about at first and I will admit you all raised good points.

I really wanted to focus on those that think diversification of the economy is the citizens' job and that the government plays little to no part in it.

Everybody going into construction and calling them self a "civil engineer" cuz they have a pardner and see a way to make a quick million with a small contract but that is not diversifying the national economy. If you guys want to talk about cutting frivolous spending there then I agree a better way can be thought up.

I want you guys to tell me what the average citizen can do to personally diversify the economy. What's the average wage, like 8k? Factor in rent, groceries and other bills and tell me how much national diversification can be done with the disposable income left. Also keep in mind that clown Imbert thinks this extra money is too much.

I just want someone to show me the logic where they government wants to cut our spending power and then say we should be diversifying the economy.

Impsbert is the only MoF in the world to subscribe to that barrel of contradictions.

[Slartibartfast]

Diversification by Gubbament decree iz bound 2 fail.

What do bureaucrats know about diversifying an economy? not a whole lot.

We have traditions of viable alternate industries that have been overshadowed by oil and gas.

For example Carnival. But the last time I checked it was just 3% of GDP. And some of that iz supported by govt spending.

Diversification originates from the people.

agreed, lots of private sector CEPEP mentality, no innovation, no ideas just more of the same old while complaining about no Government stimulus (aka high capital projects for contracts). Our private sector is lazy

Just these two were worrying me. I agree our politicians don't know about diversification. Seeing that that's what we need, and they are unable to deliver it, my argument is that they do not belong there.

Nothing wrong with government labour contracts (like CEPEP). BUT why not make labour contracts for markets that create an end product like agriculture. That way you still fuel the entrepreneur spirit, pass on valuable skills and make our country more self efficient. However, people that gain their skills here can go and start up something on their own. Like starting their own farm and exporting goods.

You can't do that with CEPEP. There is a limited amount of grass that people outside the government would pay to cut. You can't bring in foreign exchange with grass cutting. But there is never a shortage of people that want food and other consumables.

That's the kind of solution I talking about. A stimulus with a lasting effect. You help people build themselves up. With CEPEP once the grass cutting, that's it.

With farming, if you want you could eventually cuz out all spending and just charge for rent of the land and let the farmers do their thing. You helped them get built up and and now they paying you. Btw this is very oversimplified of course I'm just illustrating the kind of thinking that is needed.

[Miktay]

I think we straying from the topic. Entrepreneurship wasn't what I was talking about at first and I will admit you all raised good points.

I really wanted to focus on those that think diversification of the economy is the citizens' job and that the government plays little to no part in it.

Everybody going into construction and calling them self a "civil engineer" cuz they have a pardner and see a way to make a quick million with a small contract but that is not diversifying the national economy. If you guys want to talk about cutting frivolous spending there then I agree a better way can be thought up.

I want you guys to tell me what the average citizen can do to personally diversify the economy. What's the average wage, like 8k? Factor in rent, groceries and other bills and tell me how much national diversification can be done with the disposable income left. Also keep in mind that clown Imbert thinks this extra money is too much.

I just want someone to show me the logic where they government wants to cut our spending power and then say we should be diversifying the economy.

Again. It's not likely that Big Gubbament can sustainably diversify and economy. It can certainly allocate taxpayer money 2 what the bureaucrats believe will be more viable industries. It can engage in deficit spending. It ca tax or subsidize. But all that does iz create distortions in the economy that avaricious well connected individuals seek 2 exploit.

Only individuals & small business are nimble enuf 2 navigate the intricacies of diversifying an economy. People with fire in they belly. People with passion.

Note the definition of passion. It's not love...lust...or enthusiasm.

Passion in thiz case means "2 suffer". Empowered people who suffer a problem...or empathize with others who suffer...seek 2 alleviate suffering.

For profit entrepreneurs seek 2 alleviate suffering...need...or wants in exchange for $.

There are also not 4 profit entrepreneurs who alleviate suffering 4 non-monetary rewards. These are often called charities. But many charities have become corrupted by State money.

The best thing Big Gubbament can do iz get outta the way and let people figure things out. But if they did that people might start 2 ask why we need so much State bureaucracy in the first place.

Hence Big Gubbament bureaucrats first instinct iz 2 meddle in areas where they are out of their depth. They have 2b seen 2b doing something. But that's only 4 appearances. It's just a pappy show. Substantive issues rarely get addressed or solved in the land of Big Gubbament.

[bluesclues]

Diversification means a simple thing in the bottom line.

More and higher inflows of foreign currency.

This can translate in many ways..

It could be a new industry setup for export
It could be a new foreign buyer willing to pay a higher price than usual for an already manufactured product
It could be the setting up of local owned, foreign companies that ship profits back to trinidad
It can also be the management of efficiency upgrades in local sectors that have significant access to foreign investors and currency.. example.. the tourism sector
It could be an increase in production(in a most cost effective and low risk way) to bring in a higher rate of return within a particular sector.


There is no diversity through construction contracts. Only government spending. All that i have mentioned above can be controlled and expanded at the government level.

This country does not encourage entrepeneurship and innovation with high import fees. Its not like we can get all the things we need to make a prototype invention cheaply. Even though they are cheap. I can speak from experience. Where simple experimentation for creation of a simple prototype can run into 20-30kttd in materials. Just to start testing. In america.. children have the access to play with all sorts of raw materials which they can get cheaply and build on their motivation to innovate by simply having easy and affordable access to all they need including the professional manufacture of custom parts. So while we working for 1/6th the salary of an american citizen, we have to pay 10 times more, to accomplish the same thing. And u wonder why there is no innovation here?

There is no innovation because the economy and private business models have been forced into vulture capitalism to ensure they realize profits and achieve personal goals. The result is a slowdown in the learning process of all seeking knowledge and experience through access to needed materials, which limited only to those who can afford it?

What avenues are there for a child in laventille to learn robotics on the internet and start to work on building his own home robot, programming the chips etc himself? Children do this at home at 10yrs old in america and china. So what innovation u all want really in a country who's policies favour high income families and is hostile towards innovators by draining their pockets.

Its the policies. They force u to have to make high markups on cheap products for ur business to survive. And with all that money the government collecting they will look us in the face and say they not collecting enough and need to collect more? If the policies were different, theyd encourage businesses to make 30% markups and sell 3-4 per day instead of 1-200% markup and only sell 1.

That is economics. The management and balance in restructuring as necessary to maintain and even increase profit with lower prices by creating faster turnover.

But of course.. impsbert has a problem with us amassing all the things we are so needy for in this country from foreign at an affordable price. He wishes to limit the public's access to growth because we spending money on personal imports. Did he ever consider that maybe the reason there is a rise in personal imports is because THERE IS A NEED and a DEFICIENCY that is being plugged?

[hong kong phooey]

Wonder if the pnm and unc does pay taxes on all the money received from their financiers.
Wonder why all donations to parties are not made public and then see how contracts are awarded during wining party tenure.

[Kalisnakov]

You allowed to take the government to court in a dictatorship?

THIS!!!!! Thought it was me alone seein it.....

[Trinispougla]

And after the 2-3 years? It seems to be that they are counting their chicken before they hatch by relying on the availability of oil in the gulf that has not been found as yet. Also, unless there is a limitless supply of fossil fuels around our country, something else will have to be done eventually and it seems that our government is waiting until the final hour to implement any real changes on a large enough scale (talking about diversification).

I think blues is asking what will happen if they don't find more oil in the gulf in two to three years time? Will we end up back in a recession? If you say no, please explain how you think we are able to prevent a future recession without having to depend on oil given the current trends.

Dude as I said, finding gas in the gulf is not tge only option. Venezueala and Trinidad have been talking about cross border gas for decades, since the 70s but it is only now that it is being seriously pursued. People need to understand that the energy industry is going to be the mainstay for probably the next two decades. And there has been diversification but it is still in the energy industry, which for us is the easiest, its where we have the most technical expertise etc. Examples are mitsubishi's la brea operation, the agreements with ghana etc. And introduction into African market will have benefits because they are one of the new frontiers in the Market. Most sub saharan countries are now starting their oil journeys. Back to Venezueala. The talks with Venezueala are being facilitated by BP so these are hogh level talks, if Trinidad gets access to the el tri and dragon fields we wont have to worry about gas for the next thity years because it is one of the largest gas fields ever

[bluesclues]

Uve only touched the surface. I am hardly talking about the gas in the gulf. Im still focussed on growth vs recession. Because even though one gets out of a recession does not mean any growth was accomplished. So let me explain. Pls always bare in mind that is ppl you are managing as your major resource in any country.

Lets start with a country.. given a 50 billion dollar budget to start with on its first day as a sovereign state. In addition it has about 500-800billion worth of extractable resources which can be exported or processed for export over its lifetime. The country must find a way to be self sustainable as well as have transferred more resources into capital/revenues each year before all their resources have been mined..
But let me pause there because ill get more detailed than i plan to in this post.


Bottom line. Google a recession. A recession is identified by 2 successive quarters of revenue decline.

So lets do some math.

U start with 50bn.. with the hope that next year your total capital is say... 52bn. So in the new year u accomplish this, and make it to 52bn(2bn in resource extraction and export and gdp growth). but then there is a drop in prices or demand for one or more of ur resources for 6 months. It is thus announced u in a recession. That 6 months eat away at ur revenues in expenses until ur back to 50bn. Then the economy recovers, for 2 short months.. and u get back 50-100million(not billion). Then a decline starts again, it goes on for 6-9 months... u lose 2 billion again through expenses. So now we on 48bn. Then for a few months we exit the recession once more and recover 1 billion.. now we back at 49bn. Then decline follows again for 6 months u lose 2 billion. We at 47bn. U come out of the recession.. growth is tallied at 0.5bn. We now have 47.5bn. Then recession again.. knocks off 3 billion. We at 44.5billion.


My point being that exiting a recession does not put us on a path to growth and we have been experiencing steady decline in a most crafty way. We may grow out of recessions but overall growth does not occur and instead we suffer loss. Down to the point where we have to borrow to pay our own ppl.

So this talk of recession and recovery is bollocks. Because if a recession could cause us to lose our fuels subsidy, gain additional taxes, and devalue our dollar... how come when we come out of recession those things dont return to the way they were pre-recession?

U see what going on here? And then a next recession comes and pushes it further down. And when we 'come out of recession'.. again.. it just stays down. Until the next recession which again creates more loss than recovery can cope with before yet another downturn.

Trinidad thus has not truly exitted its long and drawn out depression in 30+ years. Dodging multiple quarters of decline by mass promotion of 1 quarter that only recovers a fraction of what was lost does not for me, qualify as exitting a recession/depression. And does not qualify as 'growth'. As a result.. our economy is shrinking. Overall!

(Note the above system is simplified for mathematical representation)

[Miktay]

At least one T&T economist understands diversification better than most.

That iza start. The problem iz of course that local for-profit private enterprises dont diversify just for diversifcation sake.

Thats not their goal. Their goal iz more $.

Farrell: Private sector must lead diversification

Chairman of the Economic Development Advisory Board (EDAB) Terrence Farrell believes the private sector must lead efforts to diversify the T&T economy.

Farrell was the keynote speaker at an event at the UWI St Augustine campus entitled How to Diversify Trinidad and Tobago. The event, the fourth in an ongoing series of public discourses is a collaborative effort between the UWI Trade and Economic Development Unit (TEDU), the Sir Arthur Lewis Institute of Social and Economic Studies (SALISES) and Guardian Media Limited.

In his presentation, Farrell said: “I am advocating strongly that it is our local private sector businessmen and women who must lead the diversification effort across a broad front. My argument for the private sector is pragmatic. The local private sector has better management capability, stronger marketing skills, superior discernment of business opportunities, and have access to some amount of capital.”

He said the Government should stay out of the business of “picking winners” but had a role to play in creating an environment conducive to supporting the efforts of the private sector.

http://www.guardian.co.tt/business/2016 ... sification

[Slartibartfast]

This is exactly what I'm saying. The government needs of make lots of changes if they want any diversification to take place. I would argue they need to play a bigger role but you must admit that they at least need to make some significant changes.

Look at that last paragraph.

He said the Government should stay out of the business of “picking winners” but had a role to play in creating an environment conducive to supporting the efforts of the private sector.

http://www.guardian.co.tt/business/2016 ... sification

Compare this to what I said on the last page.

If they people managing our resources are saying they are unable to do anything of worth with it then why they heck are they even there? I say it's not the people that are lazy but the government. They have it too easy. They don't have to innovate as long as oil is there. They supposed to work hand in hand with us to provide a good environment to foster entrepreneurship. But what they doing?... stuffing their pockets and raising taxes...

There is no need to create a false dichotomy. I believe that if you think about it you will see we agree on more things that we disagree on.

[Miktay]

This is exactly what I'm saying. The government needs of make lots of changes if they want any diversification to take place. I would argue they need to play a bigger role but you must admit that they at least need to make some significant changes.

Look at that last paragraph.

Miktay wrote:
He said the Government should stay out of the business of “picking winners” but had a role to play in creating an environment conducive to supporting the efforts of the private sector.

Bigger role? On the contrary. The best way 2 do thiz iz 2 get outta the way.

Stop trying 2 manage the economy by providing tax funded incentives/disincentives and reduce the footprint of the State.

[Slartibartfast]

Who said anything about tax funded incentive/disincentives?

Seeing that you only mentioned the "bigger role" part, does that mean that you agree with everything else. There are many "roles" that I am sure the government can play to help make things better and I'm sure there are those with better ideas than me.

My point is that what they are doing right now is bad. They are making things worse while talking about wanting to make things better. Talking about diversification and only promoting oil/gas and corrupt construction projects.

[eliteauto]

http://www.doingbusiness.org/~/media/WB ... Report.pdf

Year on year, T&T has not improved in the ease of doing business, what Gov't needs to do is facilitate smoother processes in creating, registering and doing business. This is very important if the State wants to pursue the IFC here

[Miktay]

Who said anything about tax funded incentive/disincentives?

You did. U mention the 7% online tax on at least two occasions.

And Clown Imbert thinks that we have too much "disposable" income. Do you think raising taxes and reducing the buying power of citizens is going to help further the entrepreneurship spirit or kill it?

Things getting worse for almost a decade now. People are less willing and less able to part with their money to start up something.

I think we straying from the topic. Entrepreneurship wasn't what I was talking about at first and I will admit you all raised good points.

I really wanted to focus on those that think diversification of the economy is the citizens' job and that the government plays little to no part in it.

Everybody going into construction and calling them self a "civil engineer" cuz they have a pardner and see a way to make a quick million with a small contract but that is not diversifying the national economy. If you guys want to talk about cutting frivolous spending there then I agree a better way can be thought up.

I want you guys to tell me what the average citizen can do to personally diversify the economy. What's the average wage, like 8k? Factor in rent, groceries and other bills and tell me how much national diversification can be done with the disposable income left. Also keep in mind that clown Imbert thinks this extra money is too much.

I just want someone to show me the logic where they government wants to cut our spending power and then say we should be diversifying the economy.

Seeing that you only mentioned the "bigger role" part, does that mean that you agree with everything else. There are many "roles" that I am sure the government can play to help make things better and I'm sure there are those with better ideas than me.

My point is that what they are doing right now is bad. They are making things worse while talking about wanting to make things better. Talking about diversification and only promoting oil/gas and corrupt construction projects.

There's an incentive 4 those who over promise and under-deliver 2b seen 2b doing something. Its called meddling. Diversification by Big Gubbament decree wont do much 2 diversify the revenue base.

It hasnt worked thus far.

[Slartibartfast]

You did. U mention the 7% online tax on at least two occasions.

Oh that. Yeah I said it didn't make sense. You seemed to agree. I don't see the problem. Unless I'm missing something.

And Clown Imbert thinks that we have too much "disposable" income. Do you think raising taxes and reducing the buying power of citizens is going to help further the entrepreneurship spirit or kill it?

Things getting worse for almost a decade now. People are less willing and less able to part with their money to start up something.

In case you didn't understand the rhetoric, the answer was "kill it". I believe raising taxes will kill the entrepreneurship spirit.

I think we straying from the topic. Entrepreneurship wasn't what I was talking about at first and I will admit you all raised good points.

I really wanted to focus on those that think diversification of the economy is the citizens' job and that the government plays little to no part in it.

Everybody going into construction and calling them self a "civil engineer" cuz they have a pardner and see a way to make a quick million with a small contract but that is not diversifying the national economy. If you guys want to talk about cutting frivolous spending there then I agree a better way can be thought up.

I want you guys to tell me what the average citizen can do to personally diversify the economy. What's the average wage, like 8k? Factor in rent, groceries and other bills and tell me how much national diversification can be done with the disposable income left. Also keep in mind that clown Imbert thinks this extra money is too much.

I just want someone to show me the logic where they government wants to cut our spending power and then say we should be diversifying the economy.

Yes I wrote this. Did you quote this for a reason?

Seeing that you only mentioned the "bigger role" part, does that mean that you agree with everything else. There are many "roles" that I am sure the government can play to help make things better and I'm sure there are those with better ideas than me.

My point is that what they are doing right now is bad. They are making things worse while talking about wanting to make things better. Talking about diversification and only promoting oil/gas and corrupt construction projects.

There's an incentive 4 those who over promise and under-deliver 2b seen 2b doing something. Its called meddling. Diversification by Big Gubbament decree wont do much 2 diversify the revenue base.

It hasnt worked thus far.

Huh? Care to elaborate using full words and sentences? Have they seriously tried diversifying?

[bluesclues]

I will agree that government cannot diversify. That is.. this clueless government and it's leadership that are failures at investing public funds for some reason, that have no innovative ideas or creative problem solving abilities. Yes.. with regards this pnm government.. i agree.. gtfo of the way and let private companies lead diversification.

But that isnt to say that there's noone who doesnt know how to do it from a government perspective. Pfff. Its even easy.. quite simply ask yourself this question... is trinidad achieving its full potential? Is the state efficient? Are we claiming all the revenues from all the markets that we can?

The answer is no. This government has no interest in efficient revenue collection except in taxes. But instead of increasing efficiency and revenue collection from state enterprises... they looking to sell/buy them.

Next is when the mark buss pnm stuffing election boxes to win election.

[desifemlove]

At least one T&T economist understands diversification better than most.

That iza start. The problem iz of course that local for-profit private enterprises dont diversify just for diversifcation sake.

Thats not their goal. Their goal iz more $.

Farrell: Private sector must lead diversification

Chairman of the Economic Development Advisory Board (EDAB) Terrence Farrell believes the private sector must lead efforts to diversify the T&T economy.

Farrell was the keynote speaker at an event at the UWI St Augustine campus entitled How to Diversify Trinidad and Tobago. The event, the fourth in an ongoing series of public discourses is a collaborative effort between the UWI Trade and Economic Development Unit (TEDU), the Sir Arthur Lewis Institute of Social and Economic Studies (SALISES) and Guardian Media Limited.

In his presentation, Farrell said: “I am advocating strongly that it is our local private sector businessmen and women who must lead the diversification effort across a broad front. My argument for the private sector is pragmatic. The local private sector has better management capability, stronger marketing skills, superior discernment of business opportunities, and have access to some amount of capital.”

He said the Government should stay out of the business of “picking winners” but had a role to play in creating an environment conducive to supporting the efforts of the private sector.

http://www.guardian.co.tt/business/2016 ... sification

Not that simple though, is it? Firms in any country only would do what is minimum to make enough sales, profits and satisfy customers/stakeholders. T&T businessowners are just content in their comfort zone and need a LOT of coaxing to come out from it.

T&T is not a big, dynamic economy like the USA or Germany or UK, so expecting T&T businessowners to behave like American businessowners is pretty moot. Even in the USA, the Feds direct economic activity, or facilitate it at least. Part of the issue is economists who claim to be "trained" but then think T&T is a mini-America and operates on the same lines but in miniature, it's not. The UK, USA, Germany all have overseas trade shows showing how they're all open for business. PNM or UNC, whichever it don't matter, needs to be in dialogue with global firms to bring manufacturing concerns here. neither have done enough to court foreign firms to come here, and very big economies do. The USA does, the UK does, Germany, even China. Farrell makes some sense, but not total sense, since he neglects to realise that governments invariably do facilitate the process, it's their job. If Rowley could get a foreign firm here to build a plant to install motherboards or make Android phones, he deserves another term in office on that alone. Kamla would have too if she had the gumption to do it.

[Redman]

The simple reality is the the best way towards increasing diversity in n econ activity is to make TnT attractive to foreign business..

We have issues in that regard....and that resides in the bureaucracy that GORTT sees as being necessary.

But smaller GORTT means less influence...less influence means less bribes.

Every year hundreds of new ideas come here ...get frustrated and go elsewhere...just due to the crap an entity has to deal with.

[desifemlove]

there also is no overall macroeconomic plan. people used to laugh at vision 2020, but which country DOESN'T have an overall economic plan? it could be GDP growth targets, inflation/unemployment levels, FDI levels, exports/imports, infrastructure, ICT/Internet use. no country has a healthy economy without any of these.

[bluesclues]

The simple reality is the the best way towards increasing diversity in n econ activity is to make TnT attractive to foreign business.

Define this term 'foreign business' as uve used it in this sentence.

Funny enuough desi's post towards the end poses a better idea of what its supposed to mean. In the past however, it seems to have meant, giving foreigners the opportunity to exploit or country's resources.

[bluesclues]

there also is no overall macroeconomic plan. people used to laugh at vision 2020, but which country DOESN'T have an overall economic plan? it could be GDP growth targets, inflation/unemployment levels, FDI levels, exports/imports, infrastructure, ICT/Internet use. no country has a healthy economy without any of these.

I still say it boils down to 'the cost of doing business' in trinidad. Large corporations move their business for cheaper access to raw materials, staff and maintenance supplies. In trinidad they have to pay 3x the market value of anything they need to import. So what is really being said by these taxes. And the taxing of gifts no less. Real money hungry government.

[desifemlove]

foreign business is any business not T&T-registered who comes here and opens up. Starbucks, Pricesmart are examples, but we obviously need/want more than that. the state just needs to sell the country more and actively make links. Just as they do for energy, they can do for other industries.

[Miktay]

Not that simple though, is it? Firms in any country only would do what is minimum to make enough sales, profits and satisfy customers/stakeholders. T&T businessowners are just content in their comfort zone and need a LOT of coaxing to come out from it.

History doesnt bear thiz out. No coaxing necessary in at least one case of local economic diversification.



T&T is not a big, dynamic economy like the USA or Germany or UK, so expecting T&T businessowners to behave like American businessowners is pretty moot. Doenst need 2b. Though there iz reticence on the part of many business owners 2 list their companies on the TTSE. But there are good reasons 4 that: expense and public scrunity. And the threat of takeover.

Even in the USA, the Feds direct economic activity, or facilitate it at least. And thats one reason why the US economy iz recovering at the slowest rate since WW2. Central planning was always a fallacy. The collective wisdom of a few thousand bureaucrats in Washington or POS iz outweighed by the collective actions of the millions of masses

Part of the issue is economists who claim to be "trained" but then think T&T is a mini-America and operates on the same lines but in miniature, it's not. What iz economics training btw? Is it: on one hand we have thiz and on the other we have that? Anyone can make these statements. u dont need a degree for that. Google university will give u enuf information 2 do that.

What we need more of are empowered optimistic ppl with fire in they belly. We have at least one example of thiz on Tuner.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=684543&p=9296907&hilit=nikki#p9296907

The UK, USA, Germany all have overseas trade shows showing how they're all open for business. PNM or UNC, whichever it don't matter, needs to be in dialogue with global firms to bring manufacturing concerns here. neither have done enough to court foreign firms to come here, and very big economies do. Most munifpalities/goverments/nation states offer incentives and subsidies 2 lure FDI to their territory. Often the big multinationals can play one country off another by asking for more and more incentives. And at the end of the incentive term they simply pull up stakes and walk away. See ISPATT.

The USA does, the UK does, Germany, even China. Farrell makes some sense, but not total sense, since he neglects to realise that governments invariably do facilitate the process, it's their job.

No. Farrelll iza statist. He's all for centralized regulation. But he's more laissez faire than most local economists. He realizes that the backbone of the economy (or any economy) iz small business. If u read his speeches/papers/interviews u would know that.

If Rowley could get a foreign firm here to build a plant to install motherboards or make Android phones, he deserves another term in office on that alone. Kamla would have too if she had the gumption to do it.

Thiz illustrates the folly of Big Gubbament methods 2 attact FDI here. Why would a forin company install MBs or want 2 make phones here? Cheap labor? Manufacturing prowess? Proximity to global markets? No.

There's really only one reason. That iz cheap natural gas. The rates at which we offer nat gas 2 forin firms are so low it iza State secret.

Thiz iz the cruel irony of diversification by Big Gubbament decree. Any incentives/subsidies used 2 lure forin firms...2 diversify our economy away fm fossil fuels..are largely based onna fossil fuel economy.

So even with most forin investment were back to square one. Ay Caramba

[bluesclues]

foreign business is any business not T&T-registered who comes here and opens up. Starbucks, Pricesmart are examples, but we obviously need/want more than that. the state just needs to sell the country more and actively make links. Just as they do for energy, they can do for other industries.

You see. That is hardly foreign business. Let me know when a company finds it desirable to move their headquarters to trinidad. Starbucks will ship their money back home, to headquarters. That is just consumer spent ttd being converted into usd and being shipped out.

Either way we take it the cost of doing business is too high. Even if we wanted to entice foreign entities to expand their manufacturing process to holding a trinidad presence as they do in china. the cost for them to bring in all the premium materials they need, that really make an impact on upper class 1st world export markets will be too much. Basically, we cant compete with the cost of manufacturing in other countries. And companies would have to suffer a reduced profit margin to manufacture their goods here for export.

Tell me why, would they do this? Sure the benefit we seek for ourselves is increased export, increase government revenue collection, and the ability to purchase locally things we would normally have to import. But what's in it for them? The same things that keeps them from coming here, is the same thing that stifle entrepeneurs and innovators in this country. EXPENSE. Imagine, it is cheaper to buy a plane ticket, get a 2 week holiday in a foreign country, buy all your stuff for resale and bring it back in a suitcase, than to just ship it and have it at your door within the same 2 weeks. 100 fones each the value of $3000 fitting in suitcase. So who in their right mind would ship it in thru customs? If we got nokia to expand their manufacturing process here, they would face the same problem importing the machines and components they need to build their devices. Exhorbitant and un-encouraging Expense.

So in that light. Is best the government do it. Is best the government go and seek the deal. Is best the government buy and import the machines, and is best they obtain and train employees to man the operations. But i agree, it's about selling the country. Not 'selling out' the country. Creating deals that are mutually beneficial and helps us to create positive growth in the specific area(s) that need attention. E.g the usd drain. This means we need to increase production and manufacturing in all local export markets. Not with the backward mindset of slowing down consumers ability to aqcuire the things they need through importing. But by increasing the rate of usd inflow by increasing export to offset the rate of depletion.

[desifemlove]

Not that simple though, is it? Firms in any country only would do what is minimum to make enough sales, profits and satisfy customers/stakeholders. T&T businessowners are just content in their comfort zone and need a LOT of coaxing to come out from it.

History doesnt bear thiz out. No coaxing necessary in at least one case of local economic diversification.



T&T is not a big, dynamic economy like the USA or Germany or UK, so expecting T&T businessowners to behave like American businessowners is pretty moot. Doenst need 2b. Though there iz reticence on the part of many business owners 2 list their companies on the TTSE. But there are good reasons 4 that: expense and public scrunity. And the threat of takeover.

Even in the USA, the Feds direct economic activity, or facilitate it at least. And thats one reason why the US economy iz recovering at the slowest rate since WW2. Central planning was always a fallacy. The collective wisdom of a few thousand bureaucrats in Washington or POS iz outweighed by the collective actions of the millions of masses

Part of the issue is economists who claim to be "trained" but then think T&T is a mini-America and operates on the same lines but in miniature, it's not. What iz economics training btw? Is it: on one hand we have thiz and on the other we have that? Anyone can make these statements. u dont need a degree for that. Google university will give u enuf information 2 do that.

What we need more of are empowered optimistic ppl with fire in they belly. We have at least one example of thiz on Tuner.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=684543&p=9296907&hilit=nikki#p9296907

The UK, USA, Germany all have overseas trade shows showing how they're all open for business. PNM or UNC, whichever it don't matter, needs to be in dialogue with global firms to bring manufacturing concerns here. neither have done enough to court foreign firms to come here, and very big economies do. Most munifpalities/goverments/nation states offer incentives and subsidies 2 lure FDI to their territory. Often the big multinationals can play one country off another by asking for more and more incentives. And at the end of the incentive term they simply pull up stakes and walk away. See ISPATT.

The USA does, the UK does, Germany, even China. Farrell makes some sense, but not total sense, since he neglects to realise that governments invariably do facilitate the process, it's their job.

No. Farrelll iza statist. He's all for centralized regulation. But he's more laissez faire than most local economists. He realizes that the backbone of the economy (or any economy) iz small business. If u read his speeches/papers/interviews u would know that.

If Rowley could get a foreign firm here to build a plant to install motherboards or make Android phones, he deserves another term in office on that alone. Kamla would have too if she had the gumption to do it.

Thiz illustrates the folly of Big Gubbament methods 2 attact FDI here. Why would a forin company install MBs or want 2 make phones here? Cheap labor? Manufacturing prowess? Proximity to global markets? No.

There's really only one reason. That iz cheap natural gas. The rates at which we offer nat gas 2 forin firms are so low it iza State secret.

Thiz iz the cruel irony of diversification by Big Gubbament decree. Any incentives/subsidies used 2 lure forin firms...2 diversify our economy away fm fossil fuels..are largely based onna fossil fuel economy.

So even with most forin investment were back to square one. Ay Caramba

but then government decree is what happens around the world. and it works. and for a country./economy like T&T, then there is no other way it should work. yes, firms do play governments off for FDI. There is nothing wrong with that, firms are self-interested, they exist to make profits/sales, don't they? Any economy that is healthy needs to remain efficient.

as for foreign firms coming here to install motherboards, why not? Most countries now that have manufacturing prowess started from somewhere. and proximity is moot since there are global supply chains. the components to make a smartphone come from the Congo, Saudi, Europe, Brazil and are only just assembled in China.

[Redman]

The simple reality is the the best way towards increasing diversity in n econ activity is to make TnT attractive to foreign business.

Define this term 'foreign business' as uve used it in this sentence.

Funny enuough desi's post towards the end poses a better idea of what its supposed to mean. In the past however, it seems to have meant, giving foreigners the opportunity to exploit or country's resources.

A foreign business is a business that exists outside the geographic borders of TnT


TnT is a great place in many aspects..relatively educated work force-stable politics,ok logistics and geographically close to multiple markets.

What we want exists outside-in 99% of the cases we dont need to re invent the wheel....what we need is to attract on going business that is in search of whatever we have.

What happens is entities come to set up business,employ people and invest but leave when approached for kick backs or are frustrated by a corrupt approval process.
Invariably we have too much Govt intervention in the wrong areas and not enough in others.

[Miktay]

but then government decree is what happens around the world. and it works. and for a country./economy like T&T, then there is no other way it should work. yes, firms do play governments off for FDI. There is nothing wrong with that, firms are self-interested, they exist to make profits/sales, don't they? Any economy that is healthy needs to remain efficient.

Because it happens all around the world doesn't make it suitable 4 T&T.

Many developed nations have the roots of competitive advantage in colonial exploitation.

The developed nations were former Empires. Britain, USA, the Netherlands, France, Portugal, Belgium & Spain all exploited/exploit their colonies 4 profit which fueled other parts of the nations infrastructure/economy.

Which BTW iz one competitive advantage that supported BREXIT. Britain still has her colonies. But u wont read that in any mainstream economic textbook.

as for foreign firms coming here to install motherboards, why not? Most countries now that have manufacturing prowess started from somewhere. and proximity is moot since there are global supply chains. the components to make a smartphone come from the Congo, Saudi, Europe, Brazil and are only just assembled in China.

If u want 2 start a firm installing MBs go ahead. But theres not enuf economic reasons 4a forin MNC 2 relocate here to do that IMHO. What competitive advantage does T&T have in computer assembly? Not much.

Chinese and American labor productivity gaps are slowly closing. China has lower cost per unit largely because management costs (read: stock options) are higher in the USA. Chinese manufacturing is slowly starting to move to other Asian countries such as Indonesia and Vietnam.

Brazil and Chile are better places computer assembly in the Western hemisphere. In an incentive war T&T w/b competing with large SA countries.

Who do u think would win that contest..i wonder?

[desifemlove]

foreign business is any business not T&T-registered who comes here and opens up. Starbucks, Pricesmart are examples, but we obviously need/want more than that. the state just needs to sell the country more and actively make links. Just as they do for energy, they can do for other industries.

You see. That is hardly foreign business. Let me know when a company finds it desirable to move their headquarters to trinidad. Starbucks will ship their money back home, to headquarters. That is just consumer spent ttd being converted into usd and being shipped out.

Either way we take it the cost of doing business is too high. Even if we wanted to entice foreign entities to expand their manufacturing process to holding a trinidad presence as they do in china. the cost for them to bring in all the premium materials they need, that really make an impact on upper class 1st world export markets will be too much. Basically, we cant compete with the cost of manufacturing in other countries. And companies would have to suffer a reduced profit margin to manufacture their goods here for export.

Tell me why, would they do this? Sure the benefit we seek for ourselves is increased export, increase government revenue collection, and the ability to purchase locally things we would normally have to import. But what's in it for them? The same things that keeps them from coming here, is the same thing that stifle entrepeneurs and innovators in this country. EXPENSE. Imagine, it is cheaper to buy a plane ticket, get a 2 week holiday in a foreign country, buy all your stuff for resale and bring it back in a suitcase, than to just ship it and have it at your door within the same 2 weeks. 100 fones each the value of $3000 fitting in suitcase. So who in their right mind would ship it in thru customs? If we got nokia to expand their manufacturing process here, they would face the same problem importing the machines and components they need to build their devices. Exhorbitant and un-encouraging Expense.

So in that light. Is best the government do it. Is best the government go and seek the deal. Is best the government buy and import the machines, and is best they obtain and train employees to man the operations. But i agree, it's about selling the country. Not 'selling out' the country. Creating deals that are mutually beneficial and helps us to create positive growth in the specific area(s) that need attention. E.g the usd drain. This means we need to increase production and manufacturing in all local export markets. Not with the backward mindset of slowing down consumers ability to aqcuire the things they need through importing. But by increasing the rate of usd inflow by increasing export to offset the rate of depletion.

FDI is just about providing a good platform and grounding for firms to come here.

if we want to diversify, this is what we need to do. there's only so much T&T based firms can do to diversify. The state could offer Nokia or whoever comes business rates for import/export. And T&T would have an advantage in the region, no way Grenada or Guyana or Jamaica has the infrastructure or education levels to sustain this. only brazil or mexico, costa rica, maybe argentina could come close in south america/caribbean.