NZE121 Starting Problems

[X]~Outlaw · Postby **[X]~Outlaw** » January 21st, 2015, 9:29 am

Vehicle : Local NZE121
Millage : 290K km

Recently I've needed to start my car three times before it starts, it starts every time on the third try. The first two times the engine turns over but does not start. It is non intermittent, this happens almost every time I try to start. Once in a while it will start on the first try. This problem started about two months ago.

Sometimes it starts at a RPM lower than normal idle speed, after a couple seconds it comes up to normal idle speed.

Once it starts the car runs perfectly. It idles and accelerates smoothly and perfectly.

No ECL has been thrown.

Components serviced/changed in the last six months:

Alternator : Rectifier was repaired brushes was serviced a few months ago
New battery installed about a month ago
New spark plugs : SK16
K&N cone filter cleaned and re-oiled
MAF sensor cleaned
Throttle body cleaned
Injectors cleaned a couple months ago
Intank fuel filter changed
Throttle position sensor changed
PCV valve changed

There is no corrosion on any electrical component that I can see.

If you guys have any ideas how to solve this very annoying problem please let me know.

Thanks

Postby **toyolink** » January 21st, 2015, 10:02 pm

Did you change the fuel pump filter/strainer (note this is in addition to the larger fuel filter).
The filter I refer to is the one through which the pump pulls fuel and failure to change this item in time could result in the fuel pump failing or lose of ability to deliver required pressure on hold same.
A pump which is starved starts to die and eventually you would experience a 'shut-down' due to full pump failure.
Unfortunately, even if you changed the item I refer to you might have done so too late.
This is quite a tricky situation.

[X]~Outlaw · Postby **[X]~Outlaw** » January 22nd, 2015, 9:22 am

Toyolink, I didn't. Just the big filter and the two "O" rings/seals that go with it.

supercharged turbo · Postby **supercharged turbo** » February 9th, 2015, 7:32 pm

Can this be a coilpack problem?

[X]~Outlaw · Postby **[X]~Outlaw** » February 11th, 2015, 9:50 am

I've ruled out coil packs because she accelerates and idles perfectly.

linker · Postby **linker** » November 7th, 2016, 2:56 pm

Try cleaning the MAF sensor and the throttle body.
If the MAF is dirty, then it does not sense the correct amount of air flow. I had a similar issue and solved it by cleaning the MAF sensor. It was confirmed when checked the Short Term Fuel Trim and the O2 sensor voltage at WOT.

A can of MAF Sensor Cleaner for the MAF sensor and a can of Throttle body cleaner for the Throttle body should solve your problem.

ADONI · Postby **ADONI** » November 9th, 2016, 11:13 am

Was the issue resolved?

[X]~Outlaw · Postby **[X]~Outlaw** » November 10th, 2016, 1:39 pm

Still have the problem but the car still works perfect in every way otherwise. Weird problem but I don't even bother with it anymore. She on 330K Km right now.

cueball1990 · Postby **cueball1990** » November 21st, 2016, 10:56 pm

Did you have your starter checked?

Big Z · Postby **Big Z** » November 22nd, 2016, 4:35 pm

Change entire fuel pump assembly with a known good one and try.

shaz · Postby **shaz** » December 25th, 2016, 6:18 pm

Yea possible bad fuel pump check valve

jabs · Postby **jabs** » December 30th, 2016, 7:37 pm

Will a bad fuel pump/filter cause delayed acceleration on initial startup like on mornings and sometimes on the hiway or can it also be injectors. I cleaned the maf sensor still no change.

Big Z · Postby **Big Z** » December 31st, 2016, 8:38 pm

Do a fuel pressure test to verify what you think is happening. Call or whatsapp 7347669

sitharcon · Postby **sitharcon** » January 26th, 2017, 9:08 pm

hey man,

did you get through with this issue? Did you find out what was causing the problem? I have an altis with the same problem, so if you were able to rectify it, please let me know......

[X]~Outlaw · Postby **[X]~Outlaw** » January 27th, 2017, 9:53 am

LOL problem still there. I just ignore it.

IDK123 · Postby **IDK123** » March 22nd, 2017, 5:56 pm

Hi did the problem occur soon after you changed the filter and MAS? if yes did you disconnect the battery when you was connecting the MAS to the connector ? These sensors are sensitive if it shorted out when connecting could cause it.

You could get someone to scan the system for you.

ramishrrr · Postby **ramishrrr** » March 23rd, 2017, 9:06 pm

This is for HOT-HARDSTARTING ONLY.

1. Does the engine start with one tumble on mornings when the engine is rested and cold ?
2. When it is running, then shut down, does the engine restart within a minute quite easily ?
3. When running it is shut down. Say fifteen or twenty minutes after then you try to start. Do you have to tumble two or three times before it starts ?
4. Scan has picked up nothing ?

Injectors with a slight leak can cause that. Excessive fuel vapours in the combustion chamber without sufficient oxygen will not ignite as it is too rich.
On mornings, after the injectors have leaked into the combustion chamber, the vapours will have enough time to dissipate and get back into the atmosphere. The engine most likely will start with one tumble.
Shutting a hot engine down, and restarting within a minute is possible, as not enough time was given to allow the fuel leak to cause hard starting.
Shutting the engine down and leaving for fifteen to twenty minutes will allow enough fuel to leak in the hot combustion chamber causing a too-rich mixture, which will not ignite on first tumble. You have to tumble twice or three times to purge out that mixture and allow air (oxygen) to enter the combustion chamber for ignition.

This is similar to a flooding carburettor.
The leak on the injectors are not sufficient to cause the engine to run badly, but will cause the hard starting when it is hot.

If it is possible to install a pressure gauge on the line going to the fuel rail, it will show the drop in pressure when the engine is shut down.

Peace.
RR.

sotf · Postby **sotf** » March 26th, 2017, 2:45 am

Experiencing this with my local NZE. Replaced the CAM and CRANK sensor, but it didn't seem to make much of a difference. Now I seem to have lost the "kick down". When I try to, the engine stutters and the "kick down" does not engage.

jabs · Postby **jabs** » March 26th, 2017, 6:04 am

sotf wrote:Experiencing this with my local NZE. Replaced the CAM and CRANK sensor, but it didn't seem to make much of a difference. Now I seem to have lost the "kick down". When I try to, the engine stutters and the "kick down" does not engage.

Same with mine. And it hesitates on the hiway. It not that responsive when u give it gas.

jabs · Postby **jabs** » March 26th, 2017, 6:06 am

ramishrrr wrote:This is for HOT-HARDSTARTING ONLY.

1. Does the engine start with one tumble on mornings when the engine is rested and cold ?
2. When it is running, then shut down, does the engine restart within a minute quite easily ?
3. When running it is shut down. Say fifteen or twenty minutes after then you try to start. Do you have to tumble two or three times before it starts ?
4. Scan has picked up nothing ?

Injectors with a slight leak can cause that. Excessive fuel vapours in the combustion chamber without sufficient oxygen will not ignite as it is too rich.
On mornings, after the injectors have leaked into the combustion the vapours will have enough time to dissipate and get back into the atmosphere. The engine most likely will start with one tumble.
Shutting a hot engine down, and restarting within a minute is possible, as not enough time was given to allow the fuel leak to cause hard starting.
Shutting the engine down and leaving for fifteen to twenty minutes will allow enough fuel to leak in the hot combustion chamber causing a too-rich mixture to ignite on first tumble. You have to tumble twice or three times to purge out that mixture and allow air (oxygen) to enter the combustion chamber for ignition.

This is similar to a flooding carburettor.
The leak on the injectors are not sufficient to cause the engine to run badly, but will cause the hot hard starting.

If it is possible to install a pressure gauge on the line going to the fuel rail, it will show the drop in pressure when the engine is shut down.

Peace.
RR.

What about cold starting 1st time for the day. Starts after 2 or 3 tumbles but works good throughout the day even after parked up for some hours it starts in 1.

sotf · Postby **sotf** » March 27th, 2017, 10:01 pm

jabs wrote:Same with mine. And it hesitates on the hiway. It not that responsive when u give it gas.

Mechanic suggests replacing the fuel pump, so we will see if that makes a difference.

sotf · Postby **sotf** » April 1st, 2017, 2:12 pm

As an update, we replaced the fuel pump on Wednesday and that seems to have addressed the starting issues. Used a generic ($180) instead of an orignial ($4000).

As for the for the loss of kickdown, it turns out the replacement sensors that we used were from a foreign used engine (1.6) and my local is a 1.5. I kept my original sensors, so they were reinstalled and the car seems to be back to normal.

Thanks for the feedback guys.