Vanished teen found buried in family's backyard in Valsayn

[Skanky]

You people are eating this distraction up just like the fools the PNM take you to be.

Let's be clear....it's a tragedy,it's sad,it's horrific and all bad things BUT it's a distraction and you fools are eating it all the way up.

It's not a coincidence that for maybe a decade neighbours have been making reports but on the day a pastor says Ministers are involved in crime the police decide to bust this case open.

And Minister Cox with the bs comments is the definition of 'take one for the team'.

Thousands of people murdered not a word from the PNM!

[pugboy]

ent
murders robberies and home invasions continue apace

[Habit7]

You people are eating this distraction up just like the fools the PNM take you to be.

Let's be clear....it's a tragedy,it's sad,it's horrific and all bad things BUT it's a distraction and you fools are eating it all the way up.

It's not a coincidence that for maybe a decade neighbours have been making reports but on the day a pastor says Ministers are involved in crime the police decide to bust this case open.

And Minister Cox with the bs comments is the definition of 'take one for the team'.

Thousands of people murdered not a word from the PNM!

So what you are saying is that after a lifetime of abuse and the suicide of his cousin, young Mathura went to the police and divulged all the info including the shallow grave of his sister because of his loyalty to the PNM? So he willingly timed this revelation to deflect from the accusation (that only Kamla is making) that 2 ministers were being spied on by SSA?

Wow, such amazing political insight.

[wing]

You people are eating this distraction up just like the fools the PNM take you to be.

Let's be clear....it's a tragedy,it's sad,it's horrific and all bad things BUT it's a distraction and you fools are eating it all the way up.

It's not a coincidence that for maybe a decade neighbours have been making reports but on the day a pastor says Ministers are involved in crime the police decide to bust this case open.

And Minister Cox with the bs comments is the definition of 'take one for the team'.

Thousands of people murdered not a word from the PNM!

So what you are saying is that after a lifetime of abuse and the suicide of his cousin, young Mathura went to the police and divulged all the info including the shallow grave of his sister because of his loyalty to the PNM? So he willingly timed this revelation to deflect from the accusation (that only Kamla is making) that 2 ministers were being spied on by SSA?

Wow, such amazing political insight.

Don't fall for the chain up, of course they will politicize this tragedy, because we all know it's totally Kamla fault.

[st7]

when you think about it, it seems like the girl had to be the eldest if she died at 18 years in 2017.

wonder if she rebelled against how the dipshit father treated her younger siblings and her.

[Chimera]

You people are eating this distraction up just like the fools the PNM take you to be.

Let's be clear....it's a tragedy,it's sad,it's horrific and all bad things BUT it's a distraction and you fools are eating it all the way up.

It's not a coincidence that for maybe a decade neighbours have been making reports but on the day a pastor says Ministers are involved in crime the police decide to bust this case open.

And Minister Cox with the bs comments is the definition of 'take one for the team'.

Thousands of people murdered not a word from the PNM!

ammm......a man imprisoning and abusing his kids and murdering one is a big story u know
anywhere in the world that happen it would be a big story

in your mind you feel the PNM sitting on this story and was waiting to use it?

[Skanky]

You people are eating this distraction up just like the fools the PNM take you to be.

Let's be clear....it's a tragedy,it's sad,it's horrific and all bad things BUT it's a distraction and you fools are eating it all the way up.

It's not a coincidence that for maybe a decade neighbours have been making reports but on the day a pastor says Ministers are involved in crime the police decide to bust this case open.

And Minister Cox with the bs comments is the definition of 'take one for the team'.

Thousands of people murdered not a word from the PNM!

ammm......a man imprisoning and abusing his kids and murdering one is a big story u know
anywhere in the world that happen it would be a big story

in your mind you feel the PNM sitting on this story and was waiting to use it?

When last you hear about the oil spill in Tobago where there are allegedly government ministers involved? Affecting thousands and even other countries....but not much from the PNM about that.

Why is this a bigger story than FOUR persons killed in Mayaro?

Why is this a bigger story than FIVE missing fishermen?

A pastor say a government minister involved in crime....bam this story hit same day and everybody distracted. Ten years the police had reports but only now it right to act on it..the same same day the pastor says minister involved in crime?

Donna Cox intentionally say something stupid and everybody forget about the story and on her case about how 'stupid' she is for making such comments but never a peep about the 5000 murders give or take the past ten years? How convenient.

You of all persons should know what trinidad is, who running it and for whom.

They so much on the Public Relations offensive they have their paid blogger7 patrolling the Pastor thread day and night.

[wing]

You people are eating this distraction up just like the fools the PNM take you to be.

Let's be clear....it's a tragedy,it's sad,it's horrific and all bad things BUT it's a distraction and you fools are eating it all the way up.

It's not a coincidence that for maybe a decade neighbours have been making reports but on the day a pastor says Ministers are involved in crime the police decide to bust this case open.

And Minister Cox with the bs comments is the definition of 'take one for the team'.

Thousands of people murdered not a word from the PNM!

ammm......a man imprisoning and abusing his kids and murdering one is a big story u know
anywhere in the world that happen it would be a big story

in your mind you feel the PNM sitting on this story and was waiting to use it?

When last you hear about the oil spill in Tobago where there are allegedly government ministers involved? Affecting thousands and even other countries....but not much from the PNM about that.

Why is this a bigger story than FOUR persons killed in Mayaro?

Why is this a bigger story than FIVE missing fishermen?

A pastor say a government minister involved in crime....bam this story hit same day and everybody distracted. Ten years the police had reports but only now it right to act on it..the same same day the pastor says minister involved in crime?

Donna Cox intentionally say something stupid and everybody forget about the story and on her case about how 'stupid' she is for making such comments but never a peep about the 5000 murders give or take the past ten years? How convenient.

You of all persons should know what trinidad is, who running it and for whom.

They so much on the Public Relations offensive they have their paid blogger7 patrolling the Pastor thread day and night.

Maybe you can switch your rants to the PNM thread, also getting paid to rile up the tuner simpletons seems like a good deal.

[Habit7]

You people are eating this distraction up just like the fools the PNM take you to be.

Let's be clear....it's a tragedy,it's sad,it's horrific and all bad things BUT it's a distraction and you fools are eating it all the way up.

It's not a coincidence that for maybe a decade neighbours have been making reports but on the day a pastor says Ministers are involved in crime the police decide to bust this case open.

And Minister Cox with the bs comments is the definition of 'take one for the team'.

Thousands of people murdered not a word from the PNM!

ammm......a man imprisoning and abusing his kids and murdering one is a big story u know
anywhere in the world that happen it would be a big story

in your mind you feel the PNM sitting on this story and was waiting to use it?

When last you hear about the oil spill in Tobago where there are allegedly government ministers involved? Affecting thousands and even other countries....but not much from the PNM about that.

Why is this a bigger story than FOUR persons killed in Mayaro?

Why is this a bigger story than FIVE missing fishermen?

A pastor say a government minister involved in crime....bam this story hit same day and everybody distracted. Ten years the police had reports but only now it right to act on it..the same same day the pastor says minister involved in crime?

Donna Cox intentionally say something stupid and everybody forget about the story and on her case about how 'stupid' she is for making such comments but never a peep about the 5000 murders give or take the past ten years? How convenient.

You of all persons should know what trinidad is, who running it and for whom.

They so much on the Public Relations offensive they have their paid blogger7 patrolling the Pastor thread day and night.

There was a press conference of the Tobago oil spill yesterday https://youtu.be/IUkS-5F8Pqw . There is no credible allegation of any resident Trinbagonian having anything to do with the lead up to that oil spill.

While a quadruple murder is horrendous, land disputes are becoming a common occurrence.

The fishermen were reported by the boat owner to have illegally left Trinidad to illegally fish in Venezuela. They have to bear some responsibility for their unreported status.

The pastor has never said any govt minister is involved with crime even as his employment was high nepotistic.

That being said, Donna Cox put her foot in her mouth and I agree to blaze her for all it is worth.

But keep the politics out of what is considered an unprecedented occurrence in this country and has many shook despite the other horrific headlines we normally face.

[Chimera]

bigger story because it involves long time abuse of children by their father/parents

fisherman lost at sea is a normal thing...most people assume is drug related

a garden camp where 4 men get gun down by men in police tactical gear...thats normal thing for trinidad...again most people would assume is drug related

8 children being abused for over a decade by parents....1 murdered....in a rich area with neighbors around.....

that isnt normal for Trinidad

[The_Honourable]

Skanky, while i do understand that governments especially Rowley distracts the population from certain events, your belief is an overreach.

Two stories can be big at the same time. We have the story with the Pastor, SSA, a government minister, a murder, a failing NSC and possible US intelligence wrapped into one. Then we have this story with Hannah and the history of unfortunate events with her family and the valsayn property that seemed unrelated in the beginning.

We have reached a point that any "big" story that happens, somebody will say that it is a distraction from something else.

[maj. tom]

They so much on the Public Relations offensive they have their paid blogger7 patrolling the Pastor thread day and night.

I find it so amusing that even experienced tuners will always still engage and keep replying to this paid-pnm-always-right-and-the-best blogging shill no matter the amount of fermented cowshiet he heaping on them. Then again, he is as effective as Max with the trolling.

[st7]

skanky open this ched to discover we talking about one thing alone.

the audacity.

[Habit7]

They so much on the Public Relations offensive they have their paid blogger7 patrolling the Pastor thread day and night.

I find it so amusing that even experienced tuners will always still engage and keep replying to this paid-pnm-always-right-and-the-best blogging shill no matter the amount of fermented cowshiet he heaping on them. Then again, he is as effective as Max with the trolling.

Yes men jumping up constructing a conspiracy between a family in an abusive relationship which involves a father murdering his daughter and a claim from Kamla out of Monday Night Forum. Apparently, that person is posting out of the sincerity of his heart.

But the man refuting it with facts is a paid blogger and trolling.

Shanky you sure you don’t wanna throw in aliens too?

[redmanjp]

All them complicit... They know, but only talk when yuh vex?

Correct, just like GG and the spy pastor threatening to bus files if things don't go their way. I hope they question the entire family. Hard to believe that rickety old geezer alone dug a grave

but it was 7 years ago- even the oldest child would have been 17 and all of them were likely under duress -ah mean if the father kill or forced someone to kill 1 of your siblings he can kill you too - imagine how u would be feeling

[Chimera]

Looking like a serious level of brainwashing and fear as well.

If your parents grow u up to only listen to them and then try their best to keep your away from all social contact plus continuously physically and mentally abusing you

Then your relatives not helping or assisting

Police not helping or assisting

You will think you're the wrong one and what your parents doing and telling you is right.

[maj. tom]

When the Express visited the Goya Road community yesterday, residents spoke under condition of anonymity, expressing surprise that the police took this long to arrest the individual.

“From what we were told, the man was here since Wednesday morning. He even went home (in Valsayn) before returning here. People called the police and told them. That’s how they ended up raiding the Valsayn home yesterday (Wednesday). But by the time they arrived he had already left. But I’m surprised the police took this long to reach here because they should know his family living here. And after everyone heard what was transpiring we contacted the police and let them know. But later is better than never. Because if what is being said in the media is correct, then that man is not of God. That is an evil monster walking around,” a resident said.

One resident even questioned why the police had not yet revealed the face of the suspect to the public, given the heinous nature of the crimes alleged to have been committed.

“This is one time the police need to post up the pictures of the man. They will always do it for someone they hold with weed or anything small. But this here is an evil man. The country needs to see his face,” the resident said.

One man said he was aware that, despite media reports, the family had attempted to intervene previously.

“It’s a big house (in Valsayn) with about four apartments. But for the most part over the years, that family lived by themselves. It was the man (the suspect), his wife, and their children, about seven of them. I think they were allowed to get away with that because no one else was there. It’s only recently that another family of theirs moved in. And even when that one tried to help, the husband and wife wasn’t allowing them.

“So it’s a situation that’s been going on for years now. But he had that family in a headlock. The police were told, we tried to get other people involved, but whenever officers and officials came, there was never anything strong enough to hold them.

“I’m glad that this has changed. I’m sorry that it took the loss of a woman’s life for this to transpire, though,” the man said.
https://trinidadexpress.com/news/local/was-hannah-shot-in-the-head/article_7fec495e-e269-11ee-81d8-abef7d87d91a.html

[Chimera]

Apparently the kids use to get bully in primary and secondary school for their weirdness and nerdyness as well. Dey rly had a dred hard life yes

[maj. tom]

Sort of cult indoctrination, and they are victims. Can't really blame children for their situation. Is not like they were adults like the mother who was able to make choices, especially given her background. I myself making an assumption here but she was an adult in this. And the extended family likely knowing all this.... family affairs is rel complex sheit yes. I really don't know nah.

The family lawyers did an interview with the media on CNC3 news but they were extremely cautious about everything they said. I think the public pointing too many fingers at everybody else including the neighbours, except the man and woman who did the crime. The whole victim blaming thing we all do these days to find psychological comfort for the heinousness of the crimes in this country. All my opinion is on this is that the husband and wife need to be in jail until forever.

[Chimera]

Unless it come out the wife was abused and forced to comply

[paid_influencer]

i going to say this an i know it goh be unpopular. putting aside the alleged murder(s?), and lemme just say if the man is a murderer he deserve to go to hell, wicked man, seems completely unremorseful, unrepentant, Jesus say you have to confess your sins and repent, but putting aside that, wicked evil man and his crime,

putting aside the crime, and i talk now here about the island society, not the individual, done talk about devil, devil get enough attention, the island society now, talking about island society. suppose that crime never came to light, people would have been holding him up as 'successful' for keeping his large number of children in line with licks, now they getting scholarships, reportedly brilliant and going university and on the path to get high paying careers down the line. people goh say look how them children come out good, licks does work. island society love corporal punishment, love licks, to this day we have ppl saying kamla is the cause for crime because she ban licks. parents not beating they children enough is the island reason for crime, disrespect, bad behavior, gangs, problem is children not getting enough licks nowadays supposedly

but that line between licks, being a strict parent, island society compounding it with other values. island society very conservative, very individualistic and patriarchal. fadda and mother beating children, spare the rod and spoil the child. island society is to look the other way in domestic matters. island values long time is parents own the children, children are property of parents, so do with them as you will. beat how much you want in your house. it was wrong then, it wrong now, it evil, but that is long time island values that not far in the rear view mirror. we need to come together and express strongly that this is not the way

is time we as an island talk about 'normal licks' not being normal
nobody suppose to be hitting anybody
not parents hitting children
not husband hitting wife
nobody suppose to be hitting anybody
the hitting "discipline" to be an outlet for abuse it need to stop island society need to reject it NOW

[pugboy]

^ooc what type of licks you got?

[paid_influencer]

ruler

the teacher in the next class over used to walk around with tree branch everywhere

i glad kamla ban dat chit

[Gladiator]

when you think about it, it seems like the girl had to be the eldest if she died at 18 years in 2017.

wonder if she rebelled against how the dipshit father treated her younger siblings and her.

Nah not the oldest the 3rd

[Habit7]

Just the other day I was driving past Ambassador Hotel and didn’t realised it closed down and grass was growing high. Hotel demand is high in PoS recently I am surprised that they bussed or can’t sell it already. That family has gone through some rel highs and lows. Don’t envy anyone.

[maj. tom]

Neighbour remembers Hannah as playful, petite girl
‘That place is cursed’

https://www.guardian.co.tt/news/neighbour-remembers-hannah-as-playful-petite-girl-6.2.1951473.8002de27a3
As homicide investigators piece together the circumstances surrounding the murder of 18-year-old Hannah Mathura, one Valsayn resident has shared her memories of a child whose life was shrouded in mystery.

Mathura’s remains were found buried in the backyard of her family’s Butu Street, Valsayn South home in July 2017.

The sordid secret was revealed by a 26-year-old relative who reported the incident to police last Sunday, prompting an immediate visit.

Mathura’s remains were found wrapped in a discoloured sheet and wearing a tube top, a pair of red pants and underwear.

When Guardian Media visited the neighbourhood yesterday, one resident said she only learned her name after media reports were circulated.

She said while their interactions were brief and infrequent, she remembered Hannah as a petite, playful girl who would often wave at her from her bedroom window, which was visible from the yard of her home.

“I know her as a little girl, very pale, very tiny, she has a lot of Asian features. She had bangs by her forehead and that’s all I know of Hannah,” the woman said.

“I know her for sitting by that window, seeing her getting beaten, cursed, for whatever reason.

“Then she would sit there and tease you, wave to you and we stopped seeing Hannah after.

“It’s amazing that she could still be playful and mischievous after getting that licks, to know that she had that strength and to know her little body could take that and survive.”

The resident said she has been living near Mathura’s home for over ten years and was always concerned over the sound of arguments and beatings of children at the home.

According to Mathura’s autopsy, she died from gunshot wounds to the head.

The neighbour said she could not recall hearing the sound of gunfire at any point but did remember smelling a foul scent sometime ago but could not say for certain what it was, as a chicken coop was also kept on the property.

She admitted that living so close to the home has been difficult for her, but the thought of the difficulties Mathura and others would have faced has been particularly jarring over the past week.

“I want to move from here. I hate it. I told my spouse that place is cursed. Too much things are happening there,” she said.

“I can’t describe what I feel, but I know since a few days ago I have been feeling depressed and sad, since they found her body because I am a mother.”

Guardian Media spoke to another man who said he has been working at one of the houses on Butu Street for 17 years and occasionally saw Mathura from her bedroom window.

He said Mathura was a shy child who often hid once she realised she was seen by anyone from the street.

“Because of where I was working, I could get a view of her from her room. She never had a smile on her face. She was always serious and sometimes she would go to the window and comb her hair.”

Asked if he felt the discovery of Mathura’s remains would encourage residents to be more neighbourly and take greater interest in each other’s well-being, the man said he was doubtful, given the nature of residential communities.

“People here keep to themselves, that’s just how it is. In these places, people don’t meddle, either because they are busy working or because they stay inside. It’s hard to tell when something is wrong or off because of the walls people put up.”

Another important aspect of the mystery surrounding Hannah’s life is the fact that four days after the discovery of her body, no image of her has surfaced, even on social media.

Her father Andrew, described by police as a suspect in the investigation, remained in police custody up to yesterday evening.

A police media release yesterday reported that the 66-year-old man was found at an El Dorado, Tunapuna apartment.

His 62-year-old wife was also detained and will be interviewed.

Sources said officers from the Homicide Bureau of Investigations Region II visited the home yesterday afternoon and spoke with other relatives.

While in the neighbourhood, a relative at the house was seen driving in. He declined to speak when approached.

Residents from nearby streets were also seen driving through Butu Street to simply look at the Mathura’s home.

One driver said he heard of the discovery of Mathura’s remains and wanted to see the location for himself.

“I just happened to be on this part of the neighbourhood this afternoon and I wanted to see for myself. My mother was telling me what happened and I couldn’t believe it.”

A white flower was placed on the front gate of the Mathuras’ home.

Neighbours said a stranger placed it there on Thursday evening to pay respect to Mathura.
https://www.guardian.co.tt/news/neighbour-remembers-hannah-as-playful-petite-girl-6.2.1951473.8002de27a3

[88sins]

i going to say this an i know it goh be unpopular. putting aside the alleged murder(s?), and lemme just say if the man is a murderer he deserve to go to hell, wicked man, seems completely unremorseful, unrepentant, Jesus say you have to confess your sins and repent, but putting aside that, wicked evil man and his crime,

putting aside the crime, and i talk now here about the island society, not the individual, done talk about devil, devil get enough attention, the island society now, talking about island society. suppose that crime never came to light, people would have been holding him up as 'successful' for keeping his large number of children in line with licks, now they getting scholarships, reportedly brilliant and going university and on the path to get high paying careers down the line. people goh say look how them children come out good, licks does work. island society love corporal punishment, love licks, to this day we have ppl saying kamla is the cause for crime because she ban licks. parents not beating they children enough is the island reason for crime, disrespect, bad behavior, gangs, problem is children not getting enough licks nowadays supposedly

but that line between licks, being a strict parent, island society compounding it with other values. island society very conservative, very individualistic and patriarchal. fadda and mother beating children, spare the rod and spoil the child. island society is to look the other way in domestic matters. island values long time is parents own the children, children are property of parents, so do with them as you will. beat how much you want in your house. it was wrong then, it wrong now, it evil, but that is long time island values that not far in the rear view mirror. we need to come together and express strongly that this is not the way

is time we as an island talk about 'normal licks' not being normal
nobody suppose to be hitting anybody
not parents hitting children
not husband hitting wife
nobody suppose to be hitting anybody
the hitting "discipline" to be an outlet for abuse it need to stop island society need to reject it NOW

Yeah, and no. America tried that. It eh wuk out too well for everyone.
Imagine, yuh now buy yuh brand new 97" TV, and yuh 16 y.o. son paid influencer jr doing all kinda shite. He failing every class in school, out on the block selling weed when he not in school, hiding gun with bodies on them and cocaine in yuh home and have guntas in yuh house. And yuh tell him "no tv or games for you until yuh behave"
Now imagine, he buss a slap on yuh, and takes a hammer to your tv while you now trying to watch yuh favorite show on it for the first time, in front of you, and tell you, "if i cyah play meh game with meh bredren, nobody cyah watch da tv, and yuh cyah lash meh, and if yuh lash meh yuh go make a jail cuz ah callin police fuh yuh". yuh go jes buy another one, and hide d hammer?

I eh saying beat d black off d yute, or vent all yuh life's frustration out on the kids cuz they can't fight back.

What I am saying tho, is that yourhs having the understanding that a well deserved cut-arse can and will be served as a direct result of their actions has its merits in them altering their own behavior. Learning that your actions and inactions can have actual unpleasant consequences that directly affect you and yours critical for development from childhood into adulthood.


cuz lewwe be real.
how many people on this forum kno they DIDN'T do real dotishness as a youngster, mainly cuz they know is a wash-ass meeting them when they parents find out, and yet they turn out ok, being upstanding law-abiding productive members of society?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Discipline is one of our watchwords and is absolutely important to every society.
There is a line though where discipline becomes abuse.
Abuse from parents, abuse from teachers, abuse from students, abuse from family, abuse from politicians, abuse from companies - the list can go on.
Abuse is what we should avoid at all costs.

It is clear from the reports that these children were abused.

[SR]

Its also clear that authorities dont/didnt take these types of reports seriously. st joseph station has a reputation for not taking reports despite the constant changes of staff over the last 10 years.

[88sins]

Discipline is one of our watchwords and is absolutely important to every society.
There is a line though where discipline becomes abuse.
Abuse from parents, abuse from teachers, abuse from students, abuse from family, abuse from politicians, abuse from companies - the list can go on.
Abuse is what we should avoid at all costs.

It is clear from the reports that these children were abused.

A very common misconception is the misunderstood perception that physical/corporal punishment and discipline are one and the same, but they're not. Never have been. But that's only due to a very long running play with words, one where we use the word discipline that describes the outcome we're looking to achieve as a stand-in for the action we're performing to achieve the result.

Physical/corporal punishment aka licks aka cut tail etc, is really supposed to teach that behaviors and actions have consequences, and can be used to instill or reinforce or compel discipline into and from undisciplined individuals. For example, people would steal if given the opportunity and motive and they know there were no consequences, but when they know that there are consequences, that they can be discovered, arrested and lose their freedom, they restrain themselves, and display discipline.

Discipline, to my understanding, is a byproduct of self restraint, respect, consideration and acceptance of responsibility for one's actions, whether these qualities are self-instilled or due to the person having an aversion to punishment for what they did.

For example, if a child start cussing adults in front of his/her parents for no reason ,and the parents give the child a cut tail, usually is one of two outcomes will be the result wrt the childs behavior. Either they stop cussing people entirely, or they continue. Most will opt for the former over the latter, but there's some that will not be phased by the punishment, and display the latter outcome. These are the outliers, but they do exist. So, the question is, with an outlier, can we say we disciplined the child, even when after the physical punishment they continue with the undesirable behavior? No we can't, because the child is still engaging in the behavior. They got the physical punishment, but the result wasn't that they learned discipline and to exercise self restraint and respect etc., they just learned that if mom and dad ever hear them cussing, they would be punished, and that the punishment ain't that bad enough in the child mind to motivate them to change their behavior.

But the English language is a funny thing in some ways.