ratings

[- Rovin's car audio -]

if some ppl get bad experience with some amps well ent seepaul luck cant be gopaul luck ?

i bought my 2 PB b4 i started selling PB on tuner - mine always running at 1\2 ohm for music\spl & look at d spl level that is in my wagon & nothing happen to my amps

like jeff used to ofen say : blindfolded alot of ppl cant hear a difference between amps of similar power rating

u feel only because i selling it i defending d brand - i not d sole dealer : other ppl selling PB too , d point is d man who only yapping & never used d product in my book lost alot of credibility there (as if ppl does really take u orn ... ) & like i said in my 1st post : PB is not d best in d world but for certain price range it works damn well ! ...

[- Rovin's car audio -]

i dont have to sort out anything - at d end of d day dealers\ppl all over d world buying PB by d container full while u still bitching here ....

[carfreak1024]

i doh think anyone here said that powerbass is bad directly, but hoss referring to the amps as power acoustik is severely degrading the name of the amp on the forum, as we all know that there stuff is on the lowest end of the car audio spectrum, also as another tuner did, COMPARING IMAGE DYNAMICS'S HIGHEST END 4 CHANNEL TO POWERBASS'S LOWEST END 4 CHANNEL, also gives the amp a bad name and puts the wrong idea in people's heads.

You hadda watch it like this. Trinituner gets alot of traffic and because of what was said in this thread and not only that eh, but who said it as well, alot of people are gonna think that if they buy the Powerbass amp they are gonna get similar performance to the Image Dynamics Q Series of amps, and that is not true. And if you ask me that particular powerbass 4 channel is a little overrated, but still performs damn well and reliable for the money, but it is not close to the image dynamics 4 channel at all.

[sentinel007]

whats the price difference between them


RETAIL eh

not no tuner piper price

I think they are relatively close in retail price...probably 1-200 different.

I will still go with the ID though, for support. At least I know who the dealer is and can be guaranteed some level of manufacturer support. Powerbass has gotten quite similar to audiopipe. No one can really say they are the official dealer for the product.

To me personally, Support is key for any product I choose to buy.

Not really...

ASA-600.4x
4 Channel Power Amplifier ... $1450

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=299223&hilit=+image

Q 450.4 - Image Dynamics 4-Channel 450 Watt Amplifier $2900

http://www.woofersetc.com/p6673/Q-4504- ... lifier.htm

$460USD retail do the math - this is what i like about Image, prices remain the same worldwide once bought from an authorised dealer. Many people come here claiming to be "authorised dealers" yet their pricing ridiculous, they get no special pricing from the manufacturer or support which makes you wonder? When you get a problem they say "well i enno nah bai..." or or or "well customs jam meh dey bai...price gone up 1raj"

slackerjack, Orion, Rockford etc are all established brands and you cannot compare horses with rabbits. Who de hell is powerbass?

I pretty sure Orion won't make an entry level comp. using a foam surround

SQ vs price?...sure no prob...i'm also pretty sure DLS, Image, JL and Alpine etc lowest line will all blow powerbass highest line (much less lowest) clear out the water.

There isn't much debate here, dunno what allyuh arguin bout really. All cuz i said powerbass is de new power acoustik?

just reading along...but were u born dat schupid?? u want to make a comparason between a brand u neva used and never plan on usin , and a brands dat u probably havent even tried...if a man have a world record usin a brand u comparin to power acoutik, wel den u wastin ur money on ur precious atomic dat cant do what his powerbass is doing :/....ignorance is not bliss

[Lance]

So this is now ah backpedal?

nah man, I ain't back peddling. As I said in the initial post, The price difference was 1-200, I was always referring to the I series amplifier (clearly I didn't have the Q series in mind, given the amp is 2900) The Model numbers just got mixed up. Anyone looking at the Q series and the ASA would see that the amps look nothing alike.

And carfreak, the price difference can well be 1-200, which goes back to my original post. Powerbass has no set dealer (much like audiopipe), so the price varies EVERYWHERE, everyone brings in their own stock, who ever has the lowest price is determined by who doesn't get shaft the hardest by customs. Plain and simple.

No one is saying the amps are identical. They do share the same PCB board design. That all that can be said. Nothing more nothing less. Does a board design speak to quality of the parts used? does a board design speak to the QC? Does it speak to the support you will receive? No it does not.

It's difficult to remain objective on this forum.

[carfreak1024]

whats the price difference between them


RETAIL eh

not no tuner piper price

I think they are relatively close in retail price...probably 1-200 different.

I will still go with the ID though, for support. At least I know who the dealer is and can be guaranteed some level of manufacturer support. Powerbass has gotten quite similar to audiopipe. No one can really say they are the official dealer for the product.

To me personally, Support is key for any product I choose to buy.

Not really...

ASA-600.4x
4 Channel Power Amplifier ... $1450

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=299223&hilit=+image

Q 450.4 - Image Dynamics 4-Channel 450 Watt Amplifier $2900

http://www.woofersetc.com/p6673/Q-4504- ... lifier.htm

$460USD retail do the math - this is what i like about Image, prices remain the same worldwide once bought from an authorised dealer. Many people come here claiming to be "authorised dealers" yet their pricing ridiculous, they get no special pricing from the manufacturer or support which makes you wonder? When you get a problem they say "well i enno nah bai..." or or or "well customs jam meh dey bai...price gone up 1raj"

slackerjack, Orion, Rockford etc are all established brands and you cannot compare horses with rabbits. Who de hell is powerbass?

I pretty sure Orion won't make an entry level comp. using a foam surround

SQ vs price?...sure no prob...i'm also pretty sure DLS, Image, JL and Alpine etc lowest line will all blow powerbass highest line (much less lowest) clear out the water.

There isn't much debate here, dunno what allyuh arguin bout really. All cuz i said powerbass is de new power acoustik?

just reading along...but were u born dat schupid?? u want to make a comparason between a brand u neva used and never plan on usin , and a brands dat u probably havent even tried...if a man have a world record usin a brand u comparin to power acoutik, wel den u wastin ur money on ur precious atomic dat cant do what his powerbass is doing :/....ignorance is not bliss

you do know that the powerbass XA series is a zenon built amp right, and is almost identical to the "precious atomic" that you talking about right.

Scene i hear you

Waiting on nigel & co. to shed more light...

i too am awaiting a reply but hear what fellas, from further inspection again it could be possible that the Image Dynamics I4500 and the Powerbass 600.4 could be the same PCB board design because after inspecting the 2 they are about the same exact length, RCA connections and power connection look to be the same, and crossover sections as well. But Image Dynamics does give you the real power rating of the amp and not the inflated powerbass ratings. I myself am thinking about running the I series of amps by Image, i think its great value from a great brand and it looks pretty good, lol.

[nigel1977]

Sorry to not have posted before. Im still searching a forum I remember seeing both amps, side by side.

My intention was not to devalue Image Dynamics, and so intent need not be assumed.

People are quick to pull down Powerbass and rate up other brands. Last I checked, Image Dynamics was a speaker manufacturing company. Its obvious they are going to outsource amp design and manufacture. Same could be said for many other companies that would like to have a complete line of equipment, just for their loyalists, and nothing is wrong with that.

As Lance has pointed out, the comparison is between a Powerbass ASA 600.4x, and the Image Dynamics i4500.

Just so we settle this once and for all, how about someone bring an i4500 to the Ice club dinner on Saturday, and I will bring a BNIB ASA 600.4x from stock. We open up both amps, and shed as much light as is needed?

[nigel1977]

Eureka !!!!!

Lets hear the nay sayers now... Even the end caps are the same.




Im still interested in the exercise on Saturday to open them both up side by side and compare parts. Just to give everyone a chance to analyse both amps in detail.

If you guys want to do a double blind listening test, Im sure we could do that too...

The bigger question is, which is the re-badged.

I'll never tell.

[doublestenns]

after 2 drink amps still lookin identical
which ever model is the latest one go be the re-bang one

[doublestenns]

wait i see a difference, the amps are nothin alike
in order to see the difference u must be stone drunk

[carfreak1024]

Eureka !!!!!

Lets hear the nay sayers now... Even the end caps are the same.




Im still interested in the exercise on Saturday to open them both up side by side and compare parts. Just to give everyone a chance to analyse both amps in detail.

If you guys want to do a double blind listening test, Im sure we could do that too...

The bigger question is, which is the re-badged.

I'll never tell.

well after opening the powerbass myself to look for something that would give me a clue as to what is going on i found an image dynamics 14500 stamp on the crossover board near the QC Passes Sticker on the Powerbass amp. So to answer your question and ask which amp is the rebadged i will say it is the Powerbass as there are no Powerbass markings on the Image Dynamics I4500 which i also opened.

[carfreak1024]

So this is now ah backpedal?

but i see what you was talking about here, a switch from the highest line image dynamics 4 channel to the lowest line which is in the same price bracket as the pb600.4.

[nigel1977]

The point, really, was to show that a brand of lesser status carries the same parts as a much higher ranked one. Regardless of what sticker, badging, is noticed. An ID i4500 is the same as a pb600.4x.

Are we in agreement?

Everything else about foam surrounds, stickers, backpedalling is an attempt to misdirect the fact that both amps are the same.

[Lance]

So this is now ah backpedal?

but i see what you was talking about here, a switch from the highest line image dynamics 4 channel to the lowest line which is in the same price bracket as the pb600.4.[/quote

Did you pass the English language proficiency test necessary to post on this forum?

No one ever meant to compare the Q series. It was done purely by mistake. The comparison was always the one being made now.

The Picture has been posted, please comment on that.

[doublestenns]

doz any one hav a pic of the inside of the new asa 1500.1.dx i want to see what is the difference between the the old model and new model

[carfreak1024]

So this is now ah backpedal?

but i see what you was talking about here, a switch from the highest line image dynamics 4 channel to the lowest line which is in the same price bracket as the pb600.4.[/quote

Did you pass the English language proficiency test necessary to post on this forum?

No one ever meant to compare the Q series. It was done purely by mistake. The comparison was always the one being made now.

The Picture has been posted, please comment on that.

ummmmmmmm, well in the first place, what part of my english did you not understand. Because, as far as i can see everything i said above can be clearly understood.

So i pose the question, did you pass the reading proficiency test required to post on this forum?

But on a serious note, yes i did see that both the amps are exactly the same internally, but what can you do when lower end companies buy boards designed for higher end companies, overate the amps and undercut the original owner's costs. My answer, nothing. I guess people can get a really good amp for a very good price and that amp is the powerbass 600.4x. As much as i hate to say it, the amps are the same.

But look at the power ratings, since the powerbass which claims to be 800RMS carries the same board as an amp that is rated to be 460RMS, i guess we can definatively say that the Powerbass ASA series does not put out rated power at all, and actually is about 50% overrated, as much as some Power Acoustik products. Thus reinforcing Pioneer's point made earlier.

Hope my points were clear this time.



And BTW did the admins not put an edit function in the forums so as to prevent these types of mistakes from becoming a problem. I mean a few posts should have been fixed.

[sMASH]

since is 460 rms, i guessin the price is around 1200?

[carfreak1024]

since is 460 rms, i guessin the price is around 1200?

well if the true RMS power of an amplifier dictated its price then i guess people would not be using Boss and Power Acoustik. I mean by that same estimation, a DLS RA40 should be around $1200 as well, or a JL Audio 450/4, or even an Arc Audio SE4100. Those are all 400-500RMS amps.

[noyztoyz]

interesting indeed with that powerbass and image amp comparison

but Rovin, doh study that idiot nah, come on

[Nasrallah]

But look at the power ratings, since the powerbass which claims to be 800RMS carries the same board as an amp that is rated to be 460RMS, i guess we can definatively say that the Powerbass ASA series does not put out rated power at all, and actually is about 50% overrated, as much as some Power Acoustik products. Thus reinforcing Pioneer's point made earlier.

Could also mean that the Image Dynamics amp is under rated?

[carfreak1024]

But look at the power ratings, since the powerbass which claims to be 800RMS carries the same board as an amp that is rated to be 460RMS, i guess we can definatively say that the Powerbass ASA series does not put out rated power at all, and actually is about 50% overrated, as much as some Power Acoustik products. Thus reinforcing Pioneer's point made earlier.

Could also mean that the Image Dynamics amp is under rated?

And although that is not something to doubt, we both know that the Powerbass ASA600.4x does not output 800RMS, maybe 500-600RMS. But since the both amps are the same the Image Dynamics i4500 could be underrated, like almost all of their products.

From lots of use of their subs, amps, and components, i can say that there stuff is really good, although the fact that the subwoofer baskets are no longer metal but rather an epoxy based plastic their stuff still works great. I have the Image Dynamics CTX65CS running full pass in my doors now playing sub bass. I have seen an Image Dynamics i5500 push an IDQ 12" which was the best bass from 400RMS i have heard to date, and also I have heard an IDMAX 12" in a very weirdly ported enclosure give amazing output and lowbass right down to less than 20hz.

As was said earlier, how many brands do you know of that can ne sold locally for less than they can away be sold for away. Very few, besides Image Dynamics and maybe Pioneer Subs nothing else comes to mind.

[nigel1977]

Yep, and you can keep on doing so.

[nigel1977]

Competition?

How many 600.4x's were imported and resold this year.
How many i4500's were imported and resold this year.

Once again, you speak without any fact. Or maybe you dont have a clue what "competition" means.

Oooh the forum's watching. Ohhh.

[nigel1977]

So wait, after I said, that Lance was correct last week Thursday, and even offered to do a physical comparison, you're still hung up on me backpedaling or are you just fixated on me?

Thanks, but Im a straight guy.

Have a great evening.


Or wait, see if this helps your ego.

I apologise Trinituner. I misquoted the model number. Pioneer has taken personal offence.

[Lance]

Word on the street is that Image Dynamics Isn't wholly owned by Eric Anymore either lol. Pioneer you heard that as well?

[nigel1977]

Nooo lance, you got any proof?

The I series amps are built in the same buildhouse that is owned by the owner of powerbass.

tsk tsk...let us know when you bring facts and disrepute carfreak's claims/fact/personal findings.

which were:
1. both asa and i series amps are exactly the same, minus a sticker on one.
2. the q series is not the same as the pb asa series

Did i miss anything?

[Lance]

Nah that's just hearsay, just like what most of this thread has resorted to.

Lets break it down and end all this unnecessary oletalk,

The Q series is not the same(similar) as(to) any Powerbass amplifier on the market.

The I Series mentioned above possesses a similar if not almost identical board design to the ASA Powerbass.

That's it.

The ICE club occasionally does Power testing. If you guys wish to extend this argument to one of power output then please do it with empirical evidence.

[Lance]

Pioneer We've said that since about 15 post back, you are correct.

See below:

So this is now ah backpedal?

nah man, I ain't back peddling. As I said in the initial post, The price difference was 1-200, I was always referring to the I series amplifier (clearly I didn't have the Q series in mind, given the amp is 2900) The Model numbers just got mixed up. Anyone looking at the Q series and the ASA would see that the amps look nothing alike.

And carfreak, the price difference can well be 1-200, which goes back to my original post. Powerbass has no set dealer (much like audiopipe), so the price varies EVERYWHERE, everyone brings in their own stock, who ever has the lowest price is determined by who doesn't get shaft the hardest by customs. Plain and simple.

No one is saying the amps are identical. They do share the same PCB board design. That all that can be said. Nothing more nothing less. Does a board design speak to quality of the parts used? does a board design speak to the QC? Does it speak to the support you will receive? No it does not.

It's difficult to remain objective on this forum.

[nigel1977]

Wow. You sure showed me the truth.

[carfreak1024]

The point, really, was to show that a brand of lesser status carries the same parts as a much higher ranked one. Regardless of what sticker, badging, is noticed. An ID i4500 is the same as a pb600.4x.

Are we in agreement?

Everything else about foam surrounds, stickers, backpedalling is an attempt to misdirect the fact that both amps are the same.

http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/forum/i ... topic=5469

Are these amps the same, are both made by powerbass?

There are local Powerbass dealers/sellers claiming this as true

Can ya'll shed some light please?

No they are not made by Powerbass. No they are not the same amplifiers. Yes, they are built in the same factory so they are similar.

Talk nah?

like a man close down the thread boi, went straight to the top to get the answers, best way to do things if you ask me. i still have the pics of the powerbass amp with the image stamp on d board if anyone wants to see it.